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 Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
 
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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 Oil reaches $100 a barrel 
#7823972 - 01/02/08 02:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Peak Oil
Oil is nearing a point in time where there will be less and less of it, costing more and more. Not too long ago $60 oil was outrageous, today we've reached $100 per barrel. It takes a while before you notice it at the pump, especially for the Americans among us.
But that day will come.
If you think about it everything you buy needed oil either in its fabrication or its transportation. If oil goes up, everything becomes more expensive. And later on, it will get more expensive still. Beyond that, we'll have to scratch such luxuries as frivolous plane trips... or even driving a car. And all the while there will be less and less oil costing more and more money still.
Peak oil.
Discuss.
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Cowgold
Bullshit
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824057 - 01/02/08 02:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Welcome it. Invest in domestic Oil & Gas.
I can't wait to see $200 a barrel.
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,378
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824062 - 01/02/08 02:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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As the price increases and makes everything more expensive, market forces will drive the implementation of alternative fuels and replacements for oil.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824067 - 01/02/08 03:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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After all these years the I.C.E has hardly progressed, yet all this other technology has?  I suspect people at the top of the money are hiding stuff.
If had my own solar, wave, water, rain water generator systems setup I could produce hydrogen and oxygen from water and use it in a vehicle with a conversion kit.
Fact is the big companies don't want us to use something that is so cheap and freely available. They will keep us dependent on oil as long as they are making the big bucks.
These price increase are just milk the cow time. Squeeze every last buck out of the people even if it is at the expense of our planet.
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 Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 18 days, 14 hours
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: badchad]
#7824091 - 01/02/08 03:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The whole thing is economic collapse.. It'll be like the 20s and everyone will start investing like mad; cause everythings on the up and up.
Currency will be subject to inflation (like it already is.. 1GBP is 1.95USD.. not too long ago it was about 1.40USD) and people will keep on spending this imaginary money... then BANG.. The dollar becomes useless in the world market and you all get yourself a depression.
Then because America relies so heavily on imported goods everything gets hella fucked up.. all the while china is becoming a super power...
Also when the american economy crashes.. the british one will follow suit soon.. as will a lot of the western world.. Globalization. Then these so called 3rd world countries (asia) will rise from the ashes of this and pwn us all.
Phew. We're all fucked 
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"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
 "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?"
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blkjkrabbit
Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Cepheus]
#7824111 - 01/02/08 03:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I welcome it. I'm 20, and am excited to see our fragile existence and comfy lives carnally fucked into anarchy. That's just me though, I think things like this are necessary to initiate the changes we need for a better future.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Cepheus]
#7824114 - 01/02/08 03:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lol, head for the hills!
I think they wouldn't see it coming though. If we hit a depression then someone will profit and they will pull us out, it won't be no 3rd world country either.
Its only oil, a major block yes but not enuf to bring down the whole USA & UK economy. We would just convert to hydrogen/electric etc.
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 18 days, 14 hours
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Ego Death]
#7824125 - 01/02/08 03:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oil is everything.
All plastics are made from the manipulation of long chain hydrocarbons found in oil distillates, then theres the issue of power / transport / heating... you don't realise how dependent we are until its all gone 
You must remember a few years back when we had the fuel depot blockades.. All the shops starting becoming bare, prices went through the roof.
If we didn't have any oil for a week.. our entire infrastructure would come to a standstill.
--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?"
Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux
Addicting is not a word.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Cepheus]
#7824137 - 01/02/08 03:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, the fuel and power issues have long been solvable. Plastics no big deal either really? We survived fine without plastic.
I think its the corps at the top of oil sales that will keep us giving them our money until they have to change. Chances are they already hold patents to the ulterior methods as well.
Those blockades only fuel it all. They stopped and people had to accept the price rises.
That can continue until oil runs out completely.
Some fat cat sat in a mansion with all the generators, weapons and food under the sun is not worried about waiting out the public. If we actually didn't pay their prices and society shut down for a few months then stable society would still soon rise out of the anarchy.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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 Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Cepheus]
#7824149 - 01/02/08 03:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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*thinks of Uncle Sam shooting up a black serum. 
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Ego Death]
#7824169 - 01/02/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
If we hit a depression then someone will profit and they will pull us out
Who, the Vulcans? If peak oil unfolds like many believe it will it will be a catastrophe for the entire world, not just a country or so. Everyone will be profoundly affected. People from the political left and right alike have used phrases like "economic Hiroshima" to describe it.
everything depends on oil
All this government-sponsored bio fuel stuff thats going on recently.. That's not for the environment, that's to keep society going at all.
The oil America uses each year is the energy equivalent of feeding 30 billion people. If you think of it like that you will understand that no corn ethanol or oilseed diesel can be grown that will meet America's current energy consumption. You can't grow enough biomass-whatever to keep up with that kind of energy consumption.
Windmills? They cost more energy to make and set up than they yield during their service life. Wind won't do it.
Solar? Know how expensive solar panels are vs the energy they yield?
Hydrogen? Hydrogen is an energy storage medium. Making hydrogen costs actually more energy than it yields, even in a fuel cell setup.
Nuclear? Yes, that can keep us warm for a bit longer, but it will only go so far.
Our only hope is Fusion Power, and that technology hasn't been made practical yet. Until now even DT fusion would cost us more energy than it yields. It will take 20 years or even 30 before Fusion comes to the rescue.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Cowgold]
#7824179 - 01/02/08 03:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Welcome it. Invest in domestic Oil & Gas.
I can't wait to see $200 a barrel.
Then you make a profit... in a world that is maybe three times more expensive than it is now.
It won't be pretty Cowgold.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 18 days, 14 hours
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Ego Death]
#7824197 - 01/02/08 03:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The problem with 'waiting it out' is the fact that someone has to give in. The reason boycotting oil will never work is because it such an integral part of our infrastructure. Last year we produced much more rapeseed than ever before (I can't remember the actual estimate but it was very large) which is used in the alternative fuel market as a biofuel, and it was still not enough to fill its small market share (albeit it is on the rise).
When people use ethanol as an alternative to petroleum, often the ethanol is produced from petroleum distillates (however in countries which actually export sugar cane as a cash crop this is not necessarily the case).
Solar power and wind power also crop up a lot.. but still the transportation of the expensive materials required produce these inefficient methods of power production relies on oil.
Hydroelectric power is definitely a possibility.. I recently heard about plans to dam the mouth of the river severn, which would produce enough electricity for the whole of south wales / bristol area.. however I doubt that this is a feasible alternative for powering the whole country.
The only feasible alternative to oil / gas / coal is nuclear power. Fission produces vast quantities of energy from a small amount of fuel , and depending on the type of reactor used, it can be much much cleaner than traditional methods of power generation (including radiation).
Quote:
In countries with nuclear power, radioactive wastes comprise less than 1% of total industrial toxic wastes, which remain hazardous indefinitely unless they decompose or are treated so that they are less toxic or, ideally, completely non-toxic.[32] Overall, nuclear power produces far less waste material than fossil-fuel based power plants. Coal-burning plants are particularly noted for producing large amounts of toxic and mildly radioactive ash due to concentrating naturally occurring metals and radioactive material from the coal. Contrary to popular belief, coal power actually results in more radioactive waste being released into the environment than nuclear power. The population effective dose equivalent from radiation from coal plants is 100 times as much as nuclear plants.[44]
[44] http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html
However, alternatives for oil in the transport market place looks bleak. I hope that hydrogen fuel cells become a feasible alternative some time soon, or else we're fucked.
--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?"
Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux
Addicting is not a word.
|
Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824210 - 01/02/08 03:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vulcans
Theres corporations sitting on the huge proceeds of the oil industry.
If oil ran out then they would setup business elsewhere. They will of already of thought of this and own the patents.
At the end of the day, the 3rd world countries work for the west - thats why all our sweaters come from china and Asia etc.
If we have to pay them to setup biofuel farms then we will. Fact is, every individual can be self proficient by utilizing the rivers, rain, solar, tidal effects around them to generate power.
I think companies will evolve. Thats what any good business does to stay at the top of the industry. End of oil does not = end of world. Its just a change, a change that we have been long preparing for.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Cepheus]
#7824222 - 01/02/08 03:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes,
My point is only that if we have to setup nuclear stations everywhere and run off battery/hydrogen hybrid vehicles then we will.
Its not gonna be the end of the world.
Fact is we've known this is coming for a long time - I believe they are just milking it. Most likely we already have suppressed technology that solves most these problems.
Hence my point - the I.C.E has hardly evolved since its creation, now compare that to computer technology?
Even computer technology is actually far ahead of public consumer product.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Ego Death]
#7824251 - 01/02/08 03:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
If oil ran out then they would setup business elsewhere.
There is no elsewhere. Except out there, the Vulcans.
This primary energy crisis is a worldwide problem.
Quote:
They will of already of thought of this and own the patents.
No such luck.
We've got one hope and that's ITER
That sir is it.
Oil, Gas, Coal, Uranium, Thorium.. It's all finite. It will all deplete in our lifetimes if we take our vitamins.
Quote:
Fact is, every individual can be self proficient by utilizing the rivers, rain, solar, tidal effects around them to generate power.
No. It takes considerable investment to set up solar panels and the like to fuel your house and your car. And that doesn't make goods, and that doesn't get the goods to you.
And as to everybody doing their share.. Compact Fluorescents like this one:
use only 1/5 of the energy normal lightbulbs consume.
.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824267 - 01/02/08 04:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dude, I took that Vulcan stuff as a joke but now it seems that you are just condescending me?
You're disregarding how we got here anyway. We grew to have this technology.
We don't NEED it! If we have to change or revert back to living without cars and heating then we will!
We will use horses and open fires. I can't see that happening.
You rest you entire case on two completely incorrect points
1) We will run out without developing new technology
2) We cannot revert back to olden ways of life
Fact is we are survivors, if we have to, then we will.
Trades will still happen, society will re-establish itself.
Your making out like end of oil = apocalypse!??
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Ego Death]
#7824376 - 01/02/08 04:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dude, I took that Vulcan stuff as a joke but now it seems that you are just condescending me?
Absolutely not. But as I see it the whole world is in this together. I've looked into the primary energy crisis a great deal, for years. The only way out is ITER, and beyond that DD fusion, and for the rest we're pretty much fucked.
Quote:
We don't NEED it! If we have to change or revert back to living without cars and heating then we will!
We will use horses and open fires. I can't see that happening.
That can't happen for 6 billion people. To comfortably live in neo-medieval times, 9 out of 10 people must die. We are gravely dependent on our technology. Not just for luxury, but to simply keep so many of us alive.
Quote:
1) We will run out without developing new technology
Nope, the ITER thing I linked to isn't science fiction. It's being built today in France, funded by the governments of the world. Fusion energy is our way out, all the more popular "green" alternatives cannot deliver the bulk of the energy we need. The bulk will have to come from Fossile (we have that now), then Nuclear (a finite resource as well) and ultimately, Fusion. Only with Fusion, particularly second-generation DD fusion will we have an energy source that will last us for many centuries. In fact, it will last us for thousands if not millions of years.
The question is: will these new technologies come in time to save the day? Will they smoothen our transition from an oil economy to a fusion/hydrogen economy? How deep will the crisis be?
Look at this diagram:
Fossil fuel is overwhelming importance.
The world at the moment uses about 15 Terawatt-hours continuously. If you look at a fairly big energy plant, that would be 30.000 of them. If windmills didn't cost more than they yielded, we would need 15 million windmills, each of them giving landscape pollution for miles, noise pollution up to half a mile and slicing birds in half on a daily basis.
Quote:
We cannot revert back to olden ways of life
Not without many, many people dying and the luxury life that most now take for granted, evaporating as a ghost from the past.
Quote:
Fact is we are survivors, if we have to, then we will.
Eskimo's are survivors, but would you want to live like that. With our stores and fridges and washing machines and central heating we are comfortably away from the abyss of hardship and suffering our ancestors lived in, and much of the world still lives in today.
Quote:
Your making out like end of oil = apocalypse!??
No but it has potential be a great crisis, one the world has never faced. It could be the end of life as we know it. Sure, mankind will survive. But is our standard of living not worth fighting for with everything we have?
There are scientists out there who believe that because of Peak Oil, many millions will die. That wars will be fought over the resources, maybe even World War 3. It's not just me going ZOMG. One thing is certain: Peak Oil will happen. The question is: will we be ready to ease out of oil or will it be ripped from our hands when we most need it?
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Liquidkick
H2O
Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824386 - 01/02/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Makes me mad. I didn't have any oil options. Sigh.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824389 - 01/02/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The price of oil doesn't necessarily indicate it's scarcity. Rather the price surge is due to greedy speculators.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Le_Canard]
#7824398 - 01/02/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said:
The price of oil doesn't necessarily indicate it's scarcity. Rather the price surge is due to greedy speculators.
Yes, I was just listening on NPR and they had an oil futures guy on there explaining the $100-per-barrel price today...
He said the people that bought the single $100+ plus contract that went through today did it for the sole purpose of being the ones who sent oil over $100.
Not to say the price isn't near there anyway, I think before the contract it was at 99.95 cents, but there are forces at work other than those of the free-market economy.
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Liquidkick
H2O
Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824400 - 01/02/08 04:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wonder if ethanol is gonna make me some money this year?
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Liquidkick]
#7824406 - 01/02/08 04:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I wonder if ethanol is gonna make me some money this year?
If you run a capacity moonshine still I'm sure it will 
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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int21h
Champion Bong Toker
Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 338
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Re: Oil reaches $100 a barrel [Re: Asante]
#7824456 - 01/02/08 05:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is still a remote chance that I won`t see the end of it because will pass away due to age.....
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