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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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The problem with Perlite
#7823546 - 01/02/08 12:16 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Maybe my issue with that stuff is this:
How many square feet of perlite do you need per sqf of casing?
While I do not claim to know, I would guess it's about a 4 to 1 ratio.
So in my guess, if you wanted say 3 sqf of casing, you would need 12 sgf of open perlite.
12 + 3 = 15 sgf to harvest 3.
A cool mist will give you a 1 to 3 ratio of humidifier to casing in most large bins.
That's 1 to 3 versus 4 to 1 (again, a guess that I am sure will be corrected).
If real estate is scarce, perlite is not a good choice.
maybe my 4 to 1 ratio is way off. But I am going on the fact that several posts have talked about not covering your perlite with trays.
That the perlite needs to be open to air without a tray on it to work properly.
Maybe this is wrong, maybe you could cover you perlite 100% with casing trays and it would still work.
Please correct me, but be polite and adult about it.
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Seventy
equanimitor



Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 912
Loc: Canada (PNW)
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
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pretty sure it has to be exposed for water to evaporate off of it
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shaggydogman
Stranger


Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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I would do the measuring in 3 dimensions rather than 2.
A ratio of 4:1 sounds about right for the volume of the container being humidified. Perlite is great for smaller tubs type FC's, coolmists seem to be better for the martha/greenhouse type setup.
I do small casings in a shotgun FC with the trays sitting on a cake rack just above the perlite. Works great...
Edit: I do have room around each tray to ensure air flow is not too interrupted. I'm sure this is the same for any setup.
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
Edited by shaggydogman (01/02/08 12:33 PM)
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Civ
Pinning



Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
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Re: The problem with Perlite [Re: shaggydogman]
#7823592 - 01/02/08 12:31 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Yeah 4 to 1 seems a bitch much.. 4 feet space = 1 foot perlite? Thats some deep perlite 
Start with an inch perlite- half inch of water. Use a paper towel inside of the tub, sitting on a plate where it is dry.
When you have enough humidty, your towel will start to dampen.
it shouldn't take more then 60min for it to become damp, if not, add more perlite, and water.
You can cover a lot of your perlite up with trays, don't worry bout that, the airflow is what you need to worry about.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: The problem with Perlite [Re: shaggydogman]
#7823599 - 01/02/08 12:34 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
shaggydogman said: I would do the measuring in 3 dimensions rather than 2.
A ratio of 4:1 sounds about right for the volume of the container being humidified. Perlite is great for smaller tubs type FC's, cool mists seem to be better for the Martha/greenhouse type setup.
I do small casings in a shotgun FC with the trays sitting on a cake rack just above the perlite. Works great...
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Perlite = best for small scale.
Cool Mist/Ultrasonic = better for larger scale.
How small are your casings?
And right on about the 3 dimensions.
Perlite is the low tek perfection, I admit. No electricity is always good.
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shaggydogman
Stranger


Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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Re: The problem with Perlite [Re: Civ]
#7823617 - 01/02/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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4 feet - 1 foot!
Now that is one deep tub!! :p
I have 6" in a tub about 18" deep. Which is 2:1 but it is in a drafty spot and gets loads of FAE.
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: The problem with Perlite [Re: shaggydogman]
#7823630 - 01/02/08 12:44 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
shaggydogman said: 4 feet - 1 foot!
Now that is one deep tub!! :p
I have 6" in a tub about 18" deep. Which is 2:1 but it is in a drafty spot and gets loads of FAE.
That's 1 to 3, depth wise, I was talking sqf.
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creamcorn
mad scientist



Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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don't forget, if you're casing, your cased trays provide humidity themselves.
recently i found cat litter pans that are great sized fruiting trays. i took those trays right over to the area where rubbermaid bins were sold, and found a bin that fits two of them side by side exactly.
i still use perlite in my tub... i'll explain.
when both trays are in, there's absolutely no perlite exposed. i still get enough humidity from the surface of the casings (along with hand misting once to twice a day depending on circumstances.)
now the reason for the perlite is simple, when i'm in between trays and cycling things in and out, there's times only one tray is in the tub. the other half of the surface is therefore perlite, and it picks up the "slack" during those times. but when both trays are in covering it all, it more or less resembles a monotub than anything.
so the point is, if you're dealing with well hydrated casing trays, you can cover up 100% of your perlite (or not even use it - like in a monotub or in a situation like mine where my trays fit snugly in the tub and cover the entire floor). the perlite fits in to create humidity from areas you aren't using. but there isn't a set amount of perlite surface that must be exposed if your humidity is OK with out it!
if i were dealing with cakes on the other hand, i'd want to have plenty of perlite exposed... cakes don't really "generate" humidity and any moisture they lose trying to do so just hurts your bottom line. casings can be kept moist with misting.
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shaggydogman
Stranger


Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: How small are your casings?
I'm just getting a little baby casings system going.
They are ~3 pints Tupperware containers. 4 of them fit in a shotgun FC tub I have with enough room for good air flow.
I have had a real bad patch with grains (wet spot) and have gone back to these whilst I get the grains working again.
1x half pint brf cake 2 pints hpoo (measured out and pasteurized in jars) 1/2 pint casing (measured out and pasteurized in jars)
Produces enough for my personal needs
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: The problem with Perlite [Re: shaggydogman]
#7823685 - 01/02/08 12:58 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
shaggydogman said:
Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: How small are your casings?
I'm just getting a little baby casings system going.
They are ~3 pints Tupperware containers. 4 of them fit in a shotgun FC tub I have with enough room for good air flow.
I have had a real bad patch with grains (wet spot) and have gone back to these whilst I get the grains working again.
1x half pint brf cake 2 pints hpoo (measured out and pasteurized in jars) 1/2 pint casing (measured out and pasteurized in jars)
Produces enough for my personal needs
Try Roger's Rye Tek, or mine, which is just a rip-off of his.
The key is steaming off the grains. They should look much larger, but almost dry looking on the outside.
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shaggydogman
Stranger


Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: The key is steaming off the grains. They should look much larger, but almost dry looking on the outside.
I think that pretty much sums it up!! 
I've tried various combinations of rye and wbs, various lengths of soaking, tried simmering and not simmering, dried in collander (the pasta style steaming hot like you said) and even in a baking sheet in the oven! Also made a bad mess with a hair dryer which I accidentaly turned on full blast over a colander of wbs!!!
I had some infected LC as well which confused the results for a while. Only worked that out by testing it on cakes.
I think I'm nearly there. I have a batch I did which I dried on a baking sheet were too dry which didn't get any wet spot (also didn't colonise) which means I just need to get somewhere just in between 
The next batch will work!!! I hope...
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
Edited by shaggydogman (01/02/08 01:13 PM)
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: The problem with Perlite [Re: shaggydogman]
#7823754 - 01/02/08 01:15 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Some strains thrive in wetter subs, like PES, which will colonize at almost any moisture content.
Try The Hawk's Eye for PES.
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shaggydogman
Stranger


Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: Some strains thrive in wetter subs, like PES, which will colonize at almost any moisture content. Try The Hawk's Eye for PES.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind...
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: The problem with Perlite [Re: creamcorn]
#7827532 - 01/03/08 01:42 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
creamcorn said: don't forget, if you're casing, your cased trays provide humidity themselves.
recently i found cat litter pans that are great sized fruiting trays. i took those trays right over to the area where rubbermaid bins were sold, and found a bin that fits two of them side by side exactly.
i still use perlite in my tub... i'll explain.
when both trays are in, there's absolutely no perlite exposed. i still get enough humidity from the surface of the casings (along with hand misting once to twice a day depending on circumstances.)
now the reason for the perlite is simple, when i'm in between trays and cycling things in and out, there's times only one tray is in the tub. the other half of the surface is therefore perlite, and it picks up the "slack" during those times. but when both trays are in covering it all, it more or less resembles a monotub than anything.
so the point is, if you're dealing with well hydrated casing trays, you can cover up 100% of your perlite (or not even use it - like in a monotub or in a situation like mine where my trays fit snugly in the tub and cover the entire floor). the perlite fits in to create humidity from areas you aren't using. but there isn't a set amount of perlite surface that must be exposed if your humidity is OK with out it!
if i were dealing with cakes on the other hand, i'd want to have plenty of perlite exposed... cakes don't really "generate" humidity and any moisture they lose trying to do so just hurts your bottom line. casings can be kept moist with misting.
Well put, nice reply, very informative and helpful.
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