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OfflineSportinStyle
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Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow
    #7821885 - 01/01/08 10:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I've purchased 3 syringes in the past, but this one that arrived came with all the black spores all bunched in the tip and I could only suck maybe half of it back into the liquid culture before I inoculated.

Will his fair greatly on my results or should it still work? I shook it very well before injecting. The only thing that makes me doubt it worked is that almost 3 days after inoculation, I am seeing no real growth like I did with my previous jars.

Thanks guys!


--------------------
RIP Heath Ledger


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Offlinewillmafingerdo
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: SportinStyle]
    #7821936 - 01/01/08 10:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

you dont have to beable to see the spores to have sucess, spores are microsopic so it you have a viusal clump in there that you shake up then you tecnicaly have alot of spores.. as for your jars taking a little longer, that could just be from them being a little bit dry/wet or mabye it just taking them a few days longer.. as long as their not turning green i would give them atleast 7-10 days before i go pitching them. hope this helps some..

l8r,
will


--------------------
:scaryshroom: :shitstorm: :mattz: :bongload: :gethigh: :scaryshroom:

I am not lost.. i am going there looking for it.. and when i get there and find it, i will know what it is..

"The way to stop violence is not to go out and let your head be beaten in but to say, you want to take my life risk yours!"

"are you sure u want to eat all them shrooms??"  "yes i want to hear what my mind has to say..."

remember opions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.


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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: willmafingerdo]
    #7822006 - 01/01/08 10:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You are more than likely just fine.Wait it out for a while and see what they do


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: Blutjager]
    #7822056 - 01/01/08 11:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

the only reason why there are so many spores in there is because noobs think that they need to see spores to determine whether or not the syringe is good.

Pf, the guy/company was around way before your time, would send out syringes that had almost no visible spores. These were the cleanest/most viable syringes ever. I have not found 1 company that produces a better syringe


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: tahoe]
    #7822272 - 01/02/08 12:36 AM (16 years, 30 days ago)

PF's syringes always had visible spore clumps, at least the ones I saw.

He also had quite a problem with yeast contamination towards the end, so I wouldn't say that he had the cleanest syringes ever.


-FF


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: fastfred]
    #7822280 - 01/02/08 12:39 AM (16 years, 30 days ago)

well i am talking over ten years ago


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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OfflineSportinStyle
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: tahoe]
    #7828325 - 01/03/08 04:51 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

It has STILL not showed any signs of colonization or mycelium growth in general. This has never happened?


--------------------
RIP Heath Ledger


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: SportinStyle]
    #7829489 - 01/03/08 08:42 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

If there are no signs of growth at a week or two toss them out. Likely you will discover the sweet or foot-locker smells of bacteria when you open them.

Spores can take a week or even longer to show signs of growth. You need more patients.


-FF


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: fastfred]
    #7829520 - 01/03/08 08:51 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

3 days is the earliest you will see germination from spores, it can some cases take much longer. If it gets to a week then u can start worrying, if it gets to 2 weeks, something may be wrong.

Its very true that clear syringes have in general given the best results. The spores you see have simply clumped 2gether and most likely just represents a small portion of what is suspended in the liquid.

I have had a clear syringe perform great, i have had syringes that had some clumping perform great. Im not sure if its just maybe alot of vendors are just using sterile water and nothing to prevent spore clumping or what, im unsure.

I have had a few syringes that have had clumping in the tip jsut before the needle and they did work out fine, i do remember that those syringes however did not germinate at all 4 inoc points, however they did grow.

It would be more likely that you have some sort of contam than no spores in your substrate.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7829950 - 01/03/08 10:19 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

> Its very true that clear syringes have in general given the best results.

They may work, but I've never seen the claim that they are better. That would seem to defy reason because how can more spores work less well than less spores?


-FF


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: fastfred]
    #7830010 - 01/03/08 10:29 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

While dark syringes have shown to give faster colinisation it has not been shown to give better flushes. More spores means more substrains within that may not be compatible with each other. When this happens u will not have 1 organism which can inhibit fruiting.

Darker syringes no doubt do work well, its the larger variance in genetics that can cause problems later on, they will work and they may work well sometimes.

However it is known that having 1 complete mycelium network rather than a few independantly of each other performs better.

The argument goes both ways since multispore has so much variety.

However I have seen RR state this many times.

I have noticed that in my grows i got the best results from a complelty clear syringe, and other grows from slightly darker syringes where i used very little solution.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Invisiblethedefone
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Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7830065 - 01/03/08 10:41 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

More spores means more substrains within that may not be compatible with each other. When this happens u will not have 1 organism which can inhibit fruiting.




Aren't you virtually guaranteed to never get "one orgainism?" I mean, as far as PFTek is concerned, there are four inoculation holes, right? That right there is four injections, yielding oodles of spores producing four new strains which will have to mingle together eventually anyway. I understand what you're saying, but aren't there already so many spores in even a completely clear syringe that this wouldn't really matter?


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: thedefone]
    #7830107 - 01/03/08 10:50 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

thedefone said:
Quote:

More spores means more substrains within that may not be compatible with each other. When this happens u will not have 1 organism which can inhibit fruiting.




Aren't you virtually guaranteed to never get "one orgainism?" I mean, as far as PFTek is concerned, there are four inoculation holes, right? That right there is four injections, yielding oodles of spores producing four new strains which will have to mingle together eventually anyway. I understand what you're saying, but aren't there already so many spores in even a completely clear syringe that this wouldn't really matter?




I'll leave that for u to reseach or RR to answer if he feels the need to, im not that up on exactly how it works. But it is possible to have 1 organism from a multispore. the less substrains pressent the more of a change there is of it happening.

Substrains can join with other substrains, some however are just not compatible and will live with each other (sorry if i have not got the terminology correct)

Feel free to make up your own syringes and test this out, compare dark syringes with crystal clear syringes. Theres nothing to loose.

They will grow and you will get mushrooms provided you do everything right


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7830654 - 01/04/08 03:22 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

There is no disadvantage to dark syringes. The advantage of them is that you can confirm that spores are present by simple visual inspection.

Vendors are always looking to save a buck and diluting syringes is an easy way to do it. If you want to confirm the presence and concentration of spores then ask for, or seek a vendor that provides, dark syringes.


-FF


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: fastfred]
    #7832471 - 01/04/08 04:02 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

quote:
"but I think that dark purple syringes are a waste of spores"

Words of wisdom. Too many spores translates into too many substrains germinating. It matters little if it colonizes faster if a thousand substrains are competing for your small jar of food. There is more to this hobby than simply colonization times. I challenge anybody to produce a monster flush of mushrooms from a dark purple syringe.
RR



Quote:

Darker syringes will result in more contamination problems. There is always going to be a certain percentage of contaminant spores on any print. Therefore, if you use more spores, you get more contaminants.

In addition, when you use a massive spore inoculation, you force the mycelium to spend a lot of time and energy combining all the genetics into a common network.

Many growers think that more spores results in faster colonization. What it results in is the substrate turning 'white' faster, but there is no evidence at all the project will actually fruit sooner. I'm a firm believer in using the minimum amount of spores necessary to achieve a crop. Clear(to the naked eye) syringes perform better than dark syringes.




Quote:

Very dark syringes are counterproductive. There is always going to be a few contaminant spores on every print. There's no way to avoid them unless we grew on sterilized substrates in a hyperbaric chamber.

By using the whole syringe, you also used all the contaminants that were on the print along with the mushroom spores. Since molds germinate and grow faster than mushroom mycelium, this gives contamination the upper hand.

A print should make up to ten or even more syringes, depending on size and darkness of the print.

In addition, too many mushroom spores is also counterproductive. Eventually, all those strains that are created need to merge by anastomosis into a common whole for fruiting. Since some strains are not compatible with each other, by using an excess of spores, your substrate will have several small zones of different strains, thus none of them will have the benefit of the entire cake. This results in smaller fruits, or sometimes no fruits at all.

I'd suggest diluting that with sterile, distilled water into at least five more syringes before use. The alternative is to use far less per jar, but it's hard to squeeze out less than .5 ml.
RR





Need I say more? Not trying to contradict you FastFred, I know you have never agreed with RR on this subject. I'm just trying to present the other side off the story.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


Edited by Nibin (01/04/08 04:04 PM)


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Question on a syringe and my Rye Grow [Re: Nibin]
    #7833158 - 01/04/08 07:15 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

That's fine. I generally disagree with each point, but as you pointed out it's all been said before.

The concentration difference between a dark and clear syringe isn't necessarily all that different. Most of it probably comes down to preparation differences. Use of an emulsifier, freshness, etc.

My opinion is that vendors should include enough spores to make visual confirmation of spore content possible. Obviously both kinds work (as long as the clear syringe actually has spores in it) so there is really no point on debating the issue further.


-FF


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