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damnmad
cubegrubber


Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 69
Loc:
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic*
#7821148 - 01/01/08 06:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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OK, so these cakes have been in the FC for about 10 days now. One of them has some nice but somewhat stunted growth on it and the others appear to be stalling. The cakes have also all developed significant bruising and I'm starting to get aborts and a lot of them. So my question is this:
#1: What do you think is happening? The FC is at 74F and 92RH at all times. I cant seem to get the RH any higher than that. I mist and fan about 4 times a day.
#2: Is it possible to kick these guys back into gear with another dunk and roll? Will the bruising cause me problems? Does it indicate unhealthy mycelia?
#3: Do those bigger more developed shrooms look like they can be harvested? They look as thought the veil is about to break.
#4: Is it advised to pick off the aborts?
Thank in advance for the help. I want to rescue these guys as this is my first grow. BTW - these are MAZ. Do you think there's enough here for at least one good trip? 
Edited by damnmad (01/01/08 07:40 PM)
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wocka
Lurker


Registered: 10/26/07
Posts: 771
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: damnmad]
#7821672 - 01/01/08 09:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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the blueing is from not enough moisture maybe pick them and dunk it for 24 hours
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: wocka]
#7821685 - 01/01/08 09:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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no, stop fucking with them for 24 hours., The temp is fine for fruiting and pinning, a drop in temp is not needed. The rh is fine for growth but not for pinning. So keep those cakes dripping wet for a few days. That will get a pin set going
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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wikedferret
free man



Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 487
Loc: wiked wonderland
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: wocka]
#7821687 - 01/01/08 09:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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if you resized your pictures or something you will get more responses but i dont like having to scroll back and forth everyline and i dont think many other people do either
-------------------- lol i just lied to whoever was reading that.....
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cactastic
You must be shroomin'


Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 247
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: wikedferret]
#7822346 - 01/02/08 12:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Man, you must have a small screen. That pic only takes up about half my screen and i'm on a laptop. (or has he changed it since your post?)
-------------------- ▶ I'm on YT ▶ My 10+ year old Lophophoras that I grew from seed make the occasional appearance with lots of other cacti, succulents and houseplants.
 
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: wikedferret]
#7822349 - 01/02/08 12:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> #1: What do you think is happening?
Looks like you used peroxide on them.
> Does it indicate unhealthy mycelia?
Yes, there's a good chance that they'll contaminate shortly, if they haven't already.
-FF
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: cactastic]
#7822356 - 01/02/08 01:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Bimmin said: Man, you must have a small screen. That pic only takes up about half my screen and i'm on a laptop. (or has he changed it since your post?)
It's about 2200 x 1700, far larger than any laptop screen. Your browser must be resizing them.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: fastfred]
#7822382 - 01/02/08 01:09 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Quote:
Bimmin said: Man, you must have a small screen. That pic only takes up about half my screen and i'm on a laptop. (or has he changed it since your post?)
It's about 2200 x 1700, far larger than any laptop screen. Your browser must be resizing them.
yup, it's over 1/2 of my screen and I have a 32" widescreen monitor.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: fastfred]
#7822615 - 01/02/08 04:45 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: > #1: What do you think is happening?
Looks like you used peroxide on them.
> Does it indicate unhealthy mycelia?
Yes, there's a good chance that they'll contaminate shortly, if they haven't already.
-FF
Thats not helpfull.
Slow/stunted growth is an indication of lack of moisture within the substrate or low RH, if im not mistaking your guage is either reading 65% or 85% rh, too low.
Plus that guage should not be inside the fruiting, it has an external sensor, take the digi gaige out and run the probe inside.
I still wouldnt trust the digi guage, the can be inacurate for manyr reasons.
If those mushrooms havnt matured yet, sit the cakes in a saucer of water, and dont be afraid to give the fruiting chamber a real good mist to get everything moist then fan afterwards to dry any moisture that landed on the shrooms.
U can sit the cake in water however times u feel nessesary that the substrate is somewhat hydrated to allow the mushrooms to grow
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
Edited by veda_sticks (01/02/08 05:21 AM)
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ActionExpress
Fgnugide


Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 45
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: veda_sticks]
#7822634 - 01/02/08 04:57 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Harvest, and case those motha's
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: veda_sticks]
#7822642 - 01/02/08 05:05 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Anyhow, that bluish-grey hue looks like peroxide stunting to me. Could be contamination though.
Perlite humidification is pretty hard to screw up. But it looks like he has unfilled holes in his FC and there isn't enough condensation on the sides.
I suggest reducing fanning/FAE, plugging the holes, and checking that the perlite is moist. It doesn't look like your conditions are too far out of wack, I certainly wouldn't expect them to cause that condition.
It's hard to tell if it's contamination or not, but his cakes certainly aren't healthy and it would probably be best to scrap the run and start fresh. I know nobody likes to hear that, but if you planned well you will already have more colonized cakes almost ready to fruit.
-FF
P.S. His temp/humidity gage only has an external temp sensor. The humidity sensor is located inside the body.
Edited by fastfred (01/02/08 05:34 AM)
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: fastfred]
#7822668 - 01/02/08 05:24 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Whoops, sorry edited
Condensation is not a good indication of high humidity.
I have hardly any to no condensation on the walls of my fruiting chamber.
Condesnsation indicates a temperature differential between the inside and outside of the chamber allowing moisture to condense on the walls.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
Edited by veda_sticks (01/02/08 05:27 AM)
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: veda_sticks]
#7822691 - 01/02/08 05:47 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Thanks for fixing that.
Condensation is a good indicator of humidity. If you hit 100% you will get condensation. It's quite a reliable indicator in that respect.
If you get condensation you can be assured that you have hit 100% humidity. The confounding factor is that if your walls are cooler then you have simply lowered the temperature on the walls of your container to the point where the RH hits 100%. So you might have 100% on the walls, but the rest of the chamber is below 100%.
If you know the temperature of your chamber and the room temperature you can calculate your RH based on the dew point in your chamber.
Calculations aside, if you're getting condensation and you don't have wild temperature fluctuations in your room or chamber you are at or near 100% RH. Most temp fluctuations in a home should not be so great as to significantly change the RH at the dew point.
Therefore condensation does make a reliable indicator of RH. In fact, dew point measurements are one of the most accurate methods of calculating humidity. Expensive scientific instruments take advantage of this and calculate RH by using a chilled mirror where the temperature of the mirror is carefully monitored and a sensor detects the temperature at which condensation forms.
Anyhow the shortcoming of relying on condensation is that if the room and FC temps never fluctuate then you'll most likely never get condensation even if you maintain 99% RH.
-FF
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: fastfred]
#7822722 - 01/02/08 06:11 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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ok that seems to have cleared a few things up 
As i have 96% humidity, and the temp inside and outside seem to only differ by a few degrees then i dont get condensation because my humidity is not near 100%
My FC temp is 69F. outside is 70F
I do admit that i need to build a new fruiting chamber, slightly bigger and with smaller holes in all 6 sides. But it does work well at the moment.
Thanks for clearing that up. I understand a little better now.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: veda_sticks]
#7822738 - 01/02/08 06:30 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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> My FC temp is 69F. outside is 70F
Then you will never get condensation. It will rain in your chamber before water condenses on the sides. However at some point your chamber will warm up and your room temp will probably cool down.
Here is a handy calculator. Put your FC temp as the temp and the room temp or surface reading of your sides as the dew point, as measured when condensation starts to appear.
http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/html/dewrh.shtml
Example: If your FC is at 72F and you open a window and cause a draft dropping the room temp to 70F, at which point condensation starts to form you will know that your RH is 93.4%.
As you can see, if your temperatures are not stable then you can get condensation at nearly any RH. For example a 5F temp swing that causes condensation could mean RH as low as 85%.
I usually assume that you are going to have 3F temp swings in your home just from thermostat and heater action. You should have your chamber in a relatively temp stable area free of drafts. This is important because a 5F temp swing is going to reduce the humidity of your chamber to 85% by condensing the water from it. Very few people mention temp swings as a source of humidity problems, but it is quite a common problem I think.
But if you maintain your temp swings to 3F or less and are getting condensation then you know that your RH is 90%+, which makes it a useful indicator.
-FF
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: fastfred]
#7824050 - 01/02/08 02:55 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: > My FC temp is 69F. outside is 70F
Then you will never get condensation. It will rain in your chamber before water condenses on the sides. However at some point your chamber will warm up and your room temp will probably cool down.
Here is a handy calculator. Put your FC temp as the temp and the room temp or surface reading of your sides as the dew point, as measured when condensation starts to appear.
http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/html/dewrh.shtml
Example: If your FC is at 72F and you open a window and cause a draft dropping the room temp to 70F, at which point condensation starts to form you will know that your RH is 93.4%.
As you can see, if your temperatures are not stable then you can get condensation at nearly any RH. For example a 5F temp swing that causes condensation could mean RH as low as 85%.
I usually assume that you are going to have 3F temp swings in your home just from thermostat and heater action. You should have your chamber in a relatively temp stable area free of drafts. This is important because a 5F temp swing is going to reduce the humidity of your chamber to 85% by condensing the water from it. Very few people mention temp swings as a source of humidity problems, but it is quite a common problem I think.
But if you maintain your temp swings to 3F or less and are getting condensation then you know that your RH is 90%+, which makes it a useful indicator.
-FF
This basically contradicts your previous post that says condensation is a good indicator of humidity.
Well not contradicts, but it needs to be a bit more specific. Condensation is a good humidity indicator as long as the FC is warmer than the outside (or the outside is colder than the FC to put it the other way round). If the outside is warmer than the FC (or the FC colder than the outside) there will be no condensation so condensation will be an indicator of nothing.
The only reason I say this is because someone is going to read this and think that because he gets no condensation his humidity is under 100% when it actually might be OK.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: Nibin]
#7825131 - 01/02/08 08:02 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nibin said: This basically contradicts your previous post that says condensation is a good indicator of humidity.
Well not contradicts, but it needs to be a bit more specific. Condensation is a good humidity indicator as long as the FC is warmer than the outside (or the outside is colder than the FC to put it the other way round). If the outside is warmer than the FC (or the FC colder than the outside) there will be no condensation so condensation will be an indicator of nothing.
The only reason I say this is because someone is going to read this and think that because he gets no condensation his humidity is under 100% when it actually might be OK.
I guess I should try to be more clear. Hopefully my long-winded posts explained thing well enough.
Point: Condensation is a good indicator of humidity. In fact it is the best indicator of humidity. Dew point measurements are the best way to measure humidity and all the best and most expensive instruments use a chilled mirror condensation sensor to accurately measure RH.
Caveat: In order to take advantage of this fact you have to understand the relationship of dew point to relative humidity. Further, you need to have some understanding of the thermodynamics of your FC and room.
Suggestion: In lieu of a more complicated system I suggest that if you are obtaining condensation and your temps are relatively stable (+/-3F) then you are in the proper humidity range. If you are getting no condensation try lightly misting the outside of your FC. The evaporative cooling will drop the temp of the sides a couple degrees for a couple minutes and you can check for condensation. If you get condensation you are at least pretty close to the desired range, if you don't get any then you have a low humidity problem.
-FF
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damnmad
cubegrubber


Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 69
Loc:
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: veda_sticks]
#7825676 - 01/02/08 10:07 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
If those mushrooms havnt matured yet, sit the cakes in a saucer of water, and dont be afraid to give the fruiting chamber a real good mist to get everything moist then fan afterwards to dry any moisture that landed on the shrooms.
Well Veda i went ahead and picked the fruits the had broken veils. They are fan drying as we speek. The rest of the cakes have a few decent fruits but many have none. Should i just go ahead and dunk again? or is a saucer of water sufficient?
Edited by damnmad (01/02/08 10:08 PM)
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hellucinogen
Shroomologist



Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 101
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: damnmad]
#7825741 - 01/02/08 10:25 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Ummm...I could be very wrong here, but that looks like green mold, or some sort of contamination, If it were me I would chunk them and start over.
-------------------- Clever got me this far...Then tricky got me in...~A Perfect Circle~
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Mad Scientist
Beyond Science



Registered: 12/19/09
Posts: 46
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Need some advice - stalling cakes *pic* [Re: Nibin]
#11696306 - 12/21/09 11:49 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Nibin said:
Quote:
fastfred said: > My FC temp is 69F. outside is 70F
Then you will never get condensation. It will rain in your chamber before water condenses on the sides. However at some point your chamber will warm up and your room temp will probably cool down.
Here is a handy calculator. Put your FC temp as the temp and the room temp or surface reading of your sides as the dew point, as measured when condensation starts to appear.
http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/html/dewrh.shtml
Example: If your FC is at 72F and you open a window and cause a draft dropping the room temp to 70F, at which point condensation starts to form you will know that your RH is 93.4%.
As you can see, if your temperatures are not stable then you can get condensation at nearly any RH. For example a 5F temp swing that causes condensation could mean RH as low as 85%.
I usually assume that you are going to have 3F temp swings in your home just from thermostat and heater action. You should have your chamber in a relatively temp stable area free of drafts. This is important because a 5F temp swing is going to reduce the humidity of your chamber to 85% by condensing the water from it. Very few people mention temp swings as a source of humidity problems, but it is quite a common problem I think.
But if you maintain your temp swings to 3F or less and are getting condensation then you know that your RH is 90%+, which makes it a useful indicator.
-FF
This basically contradicts your previous post that says condensation is a good indicator of humidity.
Well not contradicts, but it needs to be a bit more specific. Condensation is a good humidity indicator as long as the FC is warmer than the outside (or the outside is colder than the FC to put it the other way round). If the outside is warmer than the FC (or the FC colder than the outside) there will be no condensation so condensation will be an indicator of nothing.
The only reason I say this is because someone is going to read this and think that because he gets no condensation his humidity is under 100% when it actually might be OK.
actually u do not want to heat inside ur chamber, u heat the outside, u heat the room it is in, and in ur chamber should be the same temp as the outside. when their is a slight diffrence in temp on both sides, even by 1 degree u will get condensation thats how its formed when there is temperature diffrence, concdensation is an indicator that ur humidity is low, all the humidy in the air is clumping together forming rain drops rather than being in a vapor form, thats why u get those big drops on ur sides and lid, however, if ur temps are the same ion both sides and u have a high humidity, it will sort of look fike a verry fine mist on the sides and top and ur chamber will be a bit more blurry, its kinda like when u blow ur breath on a window and u watch the vapor evaporate. dont lisaten to noobs wqho tell u to heat the inside of the chamber cause u dont.and dont listen to people who tell u condensation is a good indicator of humidity because its not. if ur temps are same both sides and ur humidy is low, u will simply see nothing on ur sides and top.eally think its that important to know? invest in a good hygrometer. chamces are u prolly dont have enough perilite in ur chamber, and probaly have to much open space,the less open space and more surface of perilite and about 3 to 5 inches of perilite should be sufficient amout to get a good humidy level. personally in the pinning stage i like to stuff my chmaber and put the cakes really close together but not touching because it creates a micro climate. picture it this way, if u were in a glass box that was 20 feet wide by 20 feet tall and 20 feet deep, it will prolly take a while to get humid in there before u sweat. if u were in a box 4 feet tall 2 feet wide by 2 feet deep and scrunched up, its going to get hot and humid in there faster because there is less space for ur body heatr and sweat to evaporate to, forcing the air in that small box to be full of water vapor. get my point? good now buy some more perilite and a good hygrometer and heat the room or closet ur chamber is in.
-------------------- "every man who came forth from the dust shall return to the dust as the dust will always be dust and nothing more"
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