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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7821485 - 01/01/08 08:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Stating that my opinions don't belong in this forum just shows how much you're closing them off.
how do you KNOW what you know?




The way I am arguing about you ideas shows nothing about what I believe, since this a discussion based on ideas, not personalities.
I hope you have the necessary understanding to make the difference between those two. :hehehe:
I said that if you are unable to sustain what you say and don't like having your ideas attacked, then the other forum is for you, since THIS forum is oriented to having all the idea subject to verification.

Quote:

Just because you don't KNOW something doesn't mean it's not there.




Also it doesn't mean that it IS. :wink:

Quote:

I think the only difference of what exists and what could exist is if it exists in THIS reality. I think what exists in the mind is still existing, on another level, alternate reality, (whatever words you choose to describe this) etc.




THIS reality?
I was not aware that there are more realities. :lol:
Perhaps you could inform me about the "other" realities. :sherlock:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineLove Cap
Wanderer
Female


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7821782 - 01/01/08 09:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know how you got the the point that I don't know I'm subjected to verification, or my ideas rather.

but do you seriously think that THIS, what we perceive right now is all there is in life? What about dreaming? What about the connection between us all? What about all the things that are not tangible? I do believe that I have tapped into alternate perspectives and that we all have the potential to do so... and have even done with out being completely aware of it.


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OfflineLove Cap
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Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
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Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7821785 - 01/01/08 09:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

and it's just as real as this physical reality... it is the intuitive, the spiritual side of us all, and so much more.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7821866 - 01/01/08 09:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How did you get to the conclusion that there are more realities?
Perhaps you want to say that your perceptions make you feel this ONE reality as being split or multiple.

Quote:

I don't know how you got the the point that I don't know I'm subjected to verification, or my ideas rather.




Because until now you didn't bring any proof to sustain them. :shrug:
Show me definite evidence for the existence of the after life and I am open to any kind of discussion.

Quote:

What about dreaming?




What about dreaming?

Quote:

What about the connection between us all?




You mean the feeling of connection! :tongue:
How do you explain the fact that while some people experience this overwhelming feeling of connection, others feel deep and strong feelings of alienation and separation? No doubt that they both feel as real as possible.
Wouldn't a more appropriate answer be because of our perceptions? Which are totally subjective and incomplete and unable to envelop the entirety of reality?

Quote:

What about all the things that are not tangible?




Such as? :confused:
For example, as I am typing this reply to you, I am looking out the window and I can see the building that's across the street. Due to the distance, it is not tangible for me right now. :grin:
Of course, I have enough evidence to sustain that it exists, and that people live, drink, eat and fuck in it. :lol:
Can you say the same thing about the things you are referring to?
Seems to me that those you are talking about are not only untouchable, but they also can't be seen, heard or measured. :strokebeard:
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

I do believe that I have tapped into alternate perspectives and that we all have the potential to do so... and have even done with out being completely aware of it.




Ahhh but so did I.
I still don't know what those experiences are.
I have experienced "death" on psychedelics.
Is this enough evidence to sustain that there's life after death? No.
Did those experiences (and similar ones) create a change in my life and attitude towards it? Yes.
Was it because of some kind of outside higher force? Not that I know of. :shrug: It is highly probable that not.
Were these changes created by me, by my decisions and reactions according to those experiences? Yes.

Need I go on any longer or did I make myself clear? :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7821924 - 01/01/08 10:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well it seems to me that you're only looking at what is real through a logical way, which is good, it is very important for us to have that. I also think that the intuitive side of us is just as important, it is that side that brings me to a lot of assumptions, of course I know they are still just assumptions, but just because I can't 'prove' them with science, math, logic and whatever else we use as proof, doesn't make me rule them out because that's all I have to go off of when it comes to things like this. I also keep myself open to other's intuition, and I think if we all do this, we CAN put logic to it. But we're all so readily throwing out those ideas because it isn't already proven. How do we gain any knowledge like that?

Also, the connection isn't just a feeling, it is THERE, otherwise every living thing in the world couldn't live so perfectly together. We have the exact kind of atmosphere that is perfect for us to live in, and so on. the proof of THAT is all around you.

And yes, you can't see, touch, hear, or measure a feeling. That feeling is beyond the physical realm, but that realm is just as real as this one. So what makes you think that that goes on a lot further that you can measure?


You're laughing is kind of funny. I'm sure you love that feeling of thinking you're right.
What was that saying? The person saying truth is the one who makes the other SEEM false.
Not that I'm trying to say I am right, but I just think you need to open up a little bit more.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Posts: 7,152
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Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7821940 - 01/01/08 10:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7822032 - 01/01/08 11:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Well it seems to me that you're only looking at what is real through a logical way, which is good, it is very important for us to have that. I also think that the intuitive side of us is just as important, it is that side that brings me to a lot of assumptions, of course I know they are still just assumptions, but just because I can't 'prove' them with science, math, logic and whatever else we use as proof, doesn't make me rule them out because that's all I have to go off of when it comes to things like this. I also keep myself open to other's intuition, and I think if we all do this, we CAN put logic to it. But we're all so readily throwing out those ideas because it isn't already proven. How do we gain any knowledge like that?




Where did I say that it's good to rule them out?
We can gain knowledge through ANY means, if our purpose, our intention is to learn.
Before going any further, I would have to ask you to explain to me the fact that different people have different intuitions, regarding the same thing?
Doesn't it sound awkward to you?
You say you like to be open to your intuitions and to other's intuitions.
So what do you do when you happen to meet different and conflicting intuitions?
Now let's look at what intuition really means:

Quote:

in·tu·i·tion      /ˌɪntuˈɪʃən, -tyu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-too-ish-uhn, -tyoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun

1. direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension.
2. a fact, truth, etc., perceived in this way.
3. a keen and quick insight.
4. the quality or ability of having such direct perception or quick insight.




My my, look what we have here: direct perception of truth... immediate apprehension... a fact, truth :eek:
Indeed, grand words, but are they sustained? :strokebeard:
In order to establish if you had a real intuition, it must be verified. What are your means of doing so?

Everything we know, when it comes to functioning in this world, breaks down to logic. No matter how you turn it.
Even intuition, in order to make use of it's insights, must be subjected to logic.
Also I need you to explain me how exactly do you see logic limiting.
If it weren't for logic I am convinced that our race would have been long extinct.
It is a logical decision to keep an open mind about, let's say, life after death, this is exactly why I won't limit myself in stating that there's life after death. :wink: I won't also state that there's not life after death.
The most reasonable things to do seems to be admitting that we don't really have a clue.
HOWEVER, this doesn't stop us from making statements such as: life (as we know it here on planet earth) ends when our brain functions stop.

Quote:

Also, the connection isn't just a feeling, it is THERE, otherwise every living thing in the world couldn't live so perfectly together. We have the exact kind of atmosphere that is perfect for us to live in, and so on. the proof of THAT is all around you.




I think that, considering the "evidence" you provided, I would have to ask you what exactly do you understand by connection. :lol:
If you're referring to interaction, by all means, you're right.
If you're referring to something more (or less :tongue:) please state what.

Quote:

And yes, you can't see, touch, hear, or measure a feeling. That feeling is beyond the physical realm, but that realm is just as real as this one. So what makes you think that that goes on a lot further that you can measure?




A feeling can't be measured but it's effects can. :hehehe:
For example, I have deep feelings of love for my sweet heart, and the effects of that are me wanting to be with him, :heartpump: and kiss him all the time, and never let him leave the bed :yesnod:, and the intention of experiencing this life (in all it's aspects) together. :yinyang:

Quote:

You're laughing is kind of funny. I'm sure you love that feeling of thinking you're right.




Here's a prove of how erroneous your intuition may be. :lol:
This is merely a refection of your own ideas, which doesn't resonate with reality in any way.

Quote:

What was that saying? The person saying truth is the one who makes the other SEEM false.




I would very much prefer if we focused in discussing ideas instead of examining each other's personalities. Also I would appreciate if you managed to maintain your lucidity and don't get emotional over the use of some emoticons. :smirk:

Quote:

Not that I'm trying to say I am right, but I just think you need to open up a little bit more.




Ohhh I am open all right! :naughty:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Posts: 5,908
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Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7822043 - 01/01/08 11:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:popcorn: #2


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7822057 - 01/01/08 11:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

My my if it's not a popcorn party. :smirk:
Gimmie some of those :lol:
:getstoned:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7822058 - 01/01/08 11:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Quote:

What about all the things that are not tangible?




Such as? :confused:
For example, as I am typing this reply to you, I am looking out the window and I can see the building that's across the street. Due to the distance, it is not tangible for me right now. :grin:
Of course, I have enough evidence to sustain that it exists, and that people live, drink, eat and fuck in it. :lol:
Can you say the same thing about the things you are referring to?
Seems to me that those you are talking about are not only untouchable, but they also can't be seen, heard or measured. :strokebeard:
Correct me if I'm wrong.





As you type you are making, from the physical perspective, arbitrary marks representing abstract ideas and concepts understandible only to another similar ape. You are offering a virtual landscape of mental imagery and phenomena of a non-physical, completely intangible nature.

Where does our language take place? Where does our daily consciousness take place?

You'll have at least as much trouble arguing that it's completely contained in our physical brains and bodies as I will that it's not.

Either way we cannot touch, measure or understand things of the mental realm in the same ways we attempt to understand things here in concrete reality.

Similarly, the completely subjective nature of consciousness demonstrates its separation from the physical world.


--------------------
“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7822483 - 01/02/08 02:24 AM (16 years, 30 days ago)

I think we're all near death all the time, at least many people's souls are near death...I think Durden said it best when he said he had a near life experience.


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7823817 - 01/02/08 01:34 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Well it seems to me that you're only looking at what is real through a logical way, which is good, it is very important for us to have that. I also think that the intuitive side of us is just as important, it is that side that brings me to a lot of assumptions, of course I know they are still just assumptions, but just because I can't 'prove' them with science, math, logic and whatever else we use as proof, doesn't make me rule them out because that's all I have to go off of when it comes to things like this. I also keep myself open to other's intuition, and I think if we all do this, we CAN put logic to it. But we're all so readily throwing out those ideas because it isn't already proven. How do we gain any knowledge like that?




Where did I say that it's good to rule them out?
We can gain knowledge through ANY means, if our purpose, our intention is to learn.
Before going any further, I would have to ask you to explain to me the fact that different people have different intuitions, regarding the same thing?
Doesn't it sound awkward to you?
You say you like to be open to your intuitions and to other's intuitions.
So what do you do when you happen to meet different and conflicting intuitions?
Now let's look at what intuition really means:

Quote:

in·tu·i·tion      /ˌɪntuˈɪʃən, -tyu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-too-ish-uhn, -tyoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun

1. direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension.
2. a fact, truth, etc., perceived in this way.
3. a keen and quick insight.
4. the quality or ability of having such direct perception or quick insight.




My my, look what we have here: direct perception of truth... immediate apprehension... a fact, truth :eek:
Indeed, grand words, but are they sustained? :strokebeard:
In order to establish if you had a real intuition, it must be verified. What are your means of doing so?

Everything we know, when it comes to functioning in this world, breaks down to logic. No matter how you turn it.
Even intuition, in order to make use of it's insights, must be subjected to logic.
Also I need you to explain me how exactly do you see logic limiting.
If it weren't for logic I am convinced that our race would have been long extinct.
It is a logical decision to keep an open mind about, let's say, life after death, this is exactly why I won't limit myself in stating that there's life after death. :wink: I won't also state that there's not life after death.
The most reasonable things to do seems to be admitting that we don't really have a clue.
HOWEVER, this doesn't stop us from making statements such as: life (as we know it here on planet earth) ends when our brain functions stop.

Quote:

Also, the connection isn't just a feeling, it is THERE, otherwise every living thing in the world couldn't live so perfectly together. We have the exact kind of atmosphere that is perfect for us to live in, and so on. the proof of THAT is all around you.




I think that, considering the "evidence" you provided, I would have to ask you what exactly do you understand by connection. :lol:
If you're referring to interaction, by all means, you're right.
If you're referring to something more (or less :tongue:) please state what.

Quote:

And yes, you can't see, touch, hear, or measure a feeling. That feeling is beyond the physical realm, but that realm is just as real as this one. So what makes you think that that goes on a lot further that you can measure?




A feeling can't be measured but it's effects can. :hehehe:
For example, I have deep feelings of love for my sweet heart, and the effects of that are me wanting to be with him, :heartpump: and kiss him all the time, and never let him leave the bed :yesnod:, and the intention of experiencing this life (in all it's aspects) together. :yinyang:

Quote:

You're laughing is kind of funny. I'm sure you love that feeling of thinking you're right.




Here's a prove of how erroneous your intuition may be. :lol:
This is merely a refection of your own ideas, which doesn't resonate with reality in any way.

Quote:

What was that saying? The person saying truth is the one who makes the other SEEM false.




I would very much prefer if we focused in discussing ideas instead of examining each other's personalities. Also I would appreciate if you managed to maintain your lucidity and don't get emotional over the use of some emoticons. :smirk:

Quote:

Not that I'm trying to say I am right, but I just think you need to open up a little bit more.




Ohhh I am open all right! :naughty:





Your example with the effects of feelings being measured, is completely ridiculous, that has nothing to do with the reality of those feelings.. with out action.
Also, your pattern of debate is ridiculous because you jump to conclusions of one's words to quickly AND, you're never straight to the point, instead you choose to distract.
AND: your emoticons are ridiculous, apparently the emotion is from you, YOUR the one using them, what the hell else are they for?

This is all why I'm done arguing with you


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7823848 - 01/02/08 01:43 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Your example with the effects of feelings being measured, is completely ridiculous, that has nothing to do with the reality of those feelings.. with out action.




This doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Quote:

Also, your pattern of debate is ridiculous because you jump to conclusions of one's words to quickly AND, you're never straight to the point, instead you choose to distract.




No, I choose to point out the inadequacies in your replies.
I am sorry if this hurts your feelings because the thread did not go into the direction you intended. I told you to visit M&P :wink:

Quote:

AND: your emoticons are ridiculous, apparently the emotion is from you, YOUR the one using them, what the hell else are they for?




Awww poor baby! :smirk:

Quote:

This is all why I'm done arguing with you




You never started my darling :naughty:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineLove Cap
Wanderer
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Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7823869 - 01/02/08 01:53 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

baby, darling... I don't argue for the sake of arguing, I would only debate to share ideas and gain more. From you, I get nothing, just a closed off mind.:strokebeard:    :strokebeard:
:strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard: :lol:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:




:blowme: :blowme::blowme::blowme::blowme::blowme::blowme:


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. *DELETED* [Re: Love Cap]
    #7823921 - 01/02/08 02:11 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by soulcircus (01/02/08 02:12 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: soulcircus]
    #7823937 - 01/02/08 02:18 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Yes, but can you state for sure that THIS is what death is actually like?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7823956 - 01/02/08 02:24 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Tactic #48: If a poster does not respond as one wishes, try the "You sure are close-minded!" approach.

How totally novel! :rolleyes:


--------------------


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OfflineLove Cap
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Female


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 401
Loc: somewhere in the plains
Last seen: 10 years, 15 days
Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7823971 - 01/02/08 02:32 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

yeah, you're right. responses like 'aww poor baby' are not the kind I like. Anything else with any kind of intellect I am open to.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7824063 - 01/02/08 02:59 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Yes, but can you state for sure that THIS is what death is actually like?



I think it's also about escaping death. Near death :smile: And that what does brings some contrast...LIFE :heart:
It depends on how far one really was gone...

To thread: IDK, always and never, sometimes more and sometimes less with some extremes inbetween...:crazy:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (01/02/08 03:05 PM)


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: Anybody here have a near-death experience.. *DELETED* [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7824085 - 01/02/08 03:04 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by soulcircus (01/02/08 03:09 PM)


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daba 2,756 30 07/19/03 12:37 PM
by daba
* Athiest Death Theory
( 1 2 all )
LiquidSmoke 4,756 36 09/09/02 06:25 PM
by jayson
* Fear of death
( 1 2 all )
unlikelyhero 4,081 31 09/25/03 03:37 PM
by Alan Stone
* Explaining why life after death exists
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
dumlovesyou 7,327 92 04/05/03 12:36 PM
by buttonion

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