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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Police Informants and Undercover Cops
    #7820118 - 01/01/08 01:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

do any of you, when not doing any drugs for a while(or ever while using drugs), think that certain people you met are undercover cops or police informants?

sometimes, i met people, and i just have a strange suspicion that they are somehow involved with the police. i make sure to treat them nicely and not say anything about the drugs i involve myself with. i will however tell them that i used to use drugs, but ill lie and say that i quit and no longer involve myself with them.

also, did you all know that police officers ARE allowed to lie if they are asked if they are police officers and are undercover? i watched cops, and this old guy ask an undercover police officer that was disguised as a hooker, if she was a cop and she said no. after he got busted, he said "she said she wasn't a cop" and another cop said "i know she said that, but she is a police officer, it doesn't matter what she told you".

is some kind of rumor spread by cops that they have to say that they are actually police officers?


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InvisiblezSDMF
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820124 - 01/01/08 01:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

why the fuck would an under cover cop tell you he was under cover
does that not defeat the purpose??


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: zSDMF]
    #7820130 - 01/01/08 01:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zSDMF said:
why the fuck would an under cover cop tell you he was under cover
does that not defeat the purpose??




im talking about if you ask. people have always said that if you ask a cop "are you a cop?" that they cop has to admit to being a cop.


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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820152 - 01/01/08 01:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

it's like some kind of fucked up draconian "simon says" game.
They would like you to believe that those are the rules, and they would also like you to believe that they have to abide by them.

What it comes down to is your right to remain silent is the only right you really have, and they can't take it away from you.... unless you're a terrorist.


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #7820168 - 01/01/08 01:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Faaip_De_Oiad said:
it's like some kind of fucked up draconian "simon says" game.
They would like you to believe that those are the rules, and they would also like you to believe that they have to abide by them.

What it comes down to is your right to remain silent is the only right you really have, and they can't take it away from you.... unless you're a terrorist.




so it really is a myth? good thing i've been pretty good at keeping my mouth shut.


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #7820171 - 01/01/08 01:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

then you get waterboarded like a ho.

no that's entrapment if they lie to you..

it usually wont hold up in court and you'll come out in favor..

it really depends on the offense though.

they can say that they might have to lie to maintain their own safety like if you ask "are you a fuckin cop? if so i'll fucking kill you right now"

circumstances like that.

any piece of shit cop can do it though and probably get away with it...

not that all cops are pieces of shit.

i think most of y'all are too paranoid.


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InvisiblezSDMF
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820174 - 01/01/08 02:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
Quote:

zSDMF said:
why the fuck would an under cover cop tell you he was under cover
does that not defeat the purpose??




im talking about if you ask. people have always said that if you ask a cop "are you a cop?" that they cop has to admit to being a cop.




i know, if i was a cop and someone asked me if i was, when i was under cover... no way i'd tell. "hell no, are you?" would be my only reply. i mean, whats the point of going under cover if you have to go above the covers when people ask.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: im_on_a_boat] * 1
    #7820195 - 01/01/08 02:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It is definitely not entrapment if the cops lie to you. Entrapment is defined as the police getting you to do something you weren't going to do (i.e. spending time convincing you to sell them drugs when you're not a drug dealer). Cops lie all the time, they're not legally obligated to tell the truth


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7820200 - 01/01/08 02:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
It is definitely not entrapment if the cops lie to you. Entrapment is defined as the police getting you to do something you weren't going to do (i.e. spending time convincing you to sell them drugs when you're not a drug dealer). Cops lie all the time, they're not legally obligated to tell the truth




see, i thought they were legally obligated to tell the truth. is this some kind of misinformation that the police and government spread so that criminals think they have the upper hand when they dont?


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820223 - 01/01/08 02:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's just general ignorance that police take advantage of


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7820379 - 01/01/08 03:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Don't forget that regular people are used to wear wires as well.

It's pretty standard where I live for the cops to get someone who got into a little bit of trouble to wear a wire. A couple of people I know got busted that way.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820393 - 01/01/08 03:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
see, i thought they were legally obligated to tell the truth.





Nope. It's perfectly legal for them to lie to you like that.


Quote:

is this some kind of misinformation that the police and government spread so that criminals think they have the upper hand when they dont?




I dunno about that, but it has been spread by the lawbreakers themselves.


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Offlinetrent
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Le_Canard]
    #7820406 - 01/01/08 03:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"do what you gotta do".


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OfflineJadian
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Le_Canard]
    #7820419 - 01/01/08 03:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
see, i thought they were legally obligated to tell the truth.





Nope. It's perfectly legal for them to lie to you like that.


Quote:

is this some kind of misinformation that the police and government spread so that criminals think they have the upper hand when they dont?




I dunno about that, but it has been spread by the lawbreakers themselves.




Exactly. I don't think it's police spreading those rumors so much as the general ignorant public that thinks a cop won't lie to them.

The fact is police will say just about whatever they can to get you to admit to being at fault for anything, it's basically their job.

However if a cop lies to you and then convinces you to commit a crime, THAT is entrapment. A cop saying "No I'm not a cop" and then watching you commit said crime is not.


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820792 - 01/01/08 05:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

still dont understand why the people i see on Cops getting busted for buying hookers, dont first ask "wanna make out for a second?" and then discuss sexual favors for cash. an undercover cop isn't going to make out and it's not illegal to ask someone if they want to make out.

i guess im just a natural criminal...


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820800 - 01/01/08 05:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

A hooker probably won't either though


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7820802 - 01/01/08 05:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

hookers have sex with strangers...why wouldn't one make out for a second with a guy?


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820814 - 01/01/08 05:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The key is they do it for money, I dunno, it might work but I would think a dedicated snitch would go the whole way to incarcerate you


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820821 - 01/01/08 05:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
still dont understand why the people i see on Cops getting busted for buying hookers, dont first ask "wanna make out for a second?" and then discuss sexual favors for cash. an undercover cop isn't going to make out and it's not illegal to ask someone if they want to make out.

i guess im just a natural criminal...




Cops is a TV show. You will see what they want you to see.


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OfflineJadian
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7820858 - 01/01/08 05:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You wanting to make out with a hooker is almost as ridiculous as thinking they'd want to make out with you.


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Offline2FiNiTe
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7821019 - 01/01/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:



so it really is a myth? good thing i've been pretty good at keeping my mouth shut.




Its not a myth. I'm not positive when this law was done away with but I know for a FACT that back in the 60's and 70's the law was that if you ask they had to tell the truth. I believe it was in the 80's that the law was done away with. But at one time this was a law that cops had to tell the truth when asked, but its no longer that way.


--------------------
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living."

General Omar N. Bradley


Edited by 2FiNiTe (01/01/08 06:17 PM)


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Jadian]
    #7821319 - 01/01/08 07:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jadian said:
You wanting to make out with a hooker is almost as ridiculous as thinking they'd want to make out with you.




i never said that i wanted to make out with a hooker.


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OfflineWakeboardrB
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: 2FiNiTe]
    #7821646 - 01/01/08 08:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

2FiNiTe said:
Quote:



so it really is a myth? good thing i've been pretty good at keeping my mouth shut.




Its not a myth. I'm not positive when this law was done away with but I know for a FACT that back in the 60's and 70's the law was that if you ask they had to tell the truth. I believe it was in the 80's that the law was done away with. But at one time this was a law that cops had to tell the truth when asked, but its no longer that way.




That's not true at all. Don't give use crap about how you heard it from a cop or a lawyer or your dad or something. It's quite simply not true.


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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: WakeboardrB]
    #7821713 - 01/01/08 09:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WakeboardrB said:
Quote:

2FiNiTe said:
Quote:



so it really is a myth?  good thing i've been pretty good at keeping my mouth shut.




Its not a myth.  I'm not positive when this law was done away with but I know for a FACT that back in the 60's and 70's the law was that if you ask they had to tell the truth.  I believe it was in the 80's that the law was done away with.  But at one time this was a law that cops had to tell the truth when asked, but its no longer that way.




That's not true at all. Don't give use crap about how you heard it from a cop or a lawyer or your dad or something. It's quite simply not true.




Havent you seen Blow. When he goes into the back room of Derek's salon. "Are you a cop?, You know you have to tell me, if not its entrapment" Hollywood never lies :rolleyes:


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OfflineWakeboardrB
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7821750 - 01/01/08 09:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

WakeboardrB said:
Quote:

2FiNiTe said:
Quote:



so it really is a myth?  good thing i've been pretty good at keeping my mouth shut.




Its not a myth.  I'm not positive when this law was done away with but I know for a FACT that back in the 60's and 70's the law was that if you ask they had to tell the truth.  I believe it was in the 80's that the law was done away with.  But at one time this was a law that cops had to tell the truth when asked, but its no longer that way.




That's not true at all. Don't give use crap about how you heard it from a cop or a lawyer or your dad or something. It's quite simply not true.




Havent you seen Blow. When he goes into the back room of Derek's salon. "Are you a cop?, You know you have to tell me, if not its entrapment" Hollywood never lies :rolleyes:




Oh I forgot about that movie! It must be true, my mistake. :grin:


--------------------
Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7824912 - 01/02/08 07:07 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Havent you seen Blow. When he goes into the back room of Derek's salon. "Are you a cop?, You know you have to tell me, if not its entrapment" Hollywood never lies :rolleyes:




seeeee.  i've seen this in other movies.  but then on cops, the cop told the old guy that it didn't matter that the undercover cop lied.

also, a girl at subway just ask me today "do you ever...", then imitated smoking a joint.  i said i use to.  informant?  or am i just paranoid.  i haven't smoked weed in a while.


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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7824919 - 01/02/08 07:09 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

What cop goes around busting people for smoking weed? You are just being paranoid.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7824945 - 01/02/08 07:16 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Movies = not fucking true

If you ask an undercover if they're a cop, don't expect them to say "shit guys, he asked if I was a cop, operation over"


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7824993 - 01/02/08 07:27 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

one time on acid i thought a room full of raver kids and djs were actually Freemasons guarding an interdimensional secret lay line.  there were delicate little beings hiding about, 

btw, i stole some of the secret, i still have it, its frigging real man! it's not actually stealing, i sorta made a copy of the pattern and hid it in a drawing.  but take some acid or alot of shrooms and the drawing comes alive again :smile:


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: fapjack]
    #7825011 - 01/02/08 07:32 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
What cop goes around busting people for smoking weed? You are just being paranoid.




I agree. The girl probably just wanted to know if you smoked LOL. Cops cant do drugs. So if the "undercover" does drugs with you, then you are safe.


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Invisibleeeso
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: KillerPicklez] * 1
    #7825039 - 01/02/08 07:40 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

fapjack said:
What cop goes around busting people for smoking weed? You are just being paranoid.




I agree. The girl probably just wanted to know if you smoked LOL. Cops cant do drugs. So if the "undercover" does drugs with you, then you are safe.




That's actually another common misconception.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7825047 - 01/02/08 07:43 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Wrong again, and thinking like that will land your ass in jail. Undercovers are practically above the law, almost anything they can do to bust you they can and will do. Once again, just think logically. Would the DEA abandon an operation because their snitch can't get high? More importantly, would they risk the life of their snitch because they can't hit a bowl?


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7825065 - 01/02/08 07:49 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Wrong again, and thinking like that will land your ass in jail. Undercovers are practically above the law, almost anything they can do to bust you they can and will do. Once again, just think logically. Would the DEA abandon an operation because their snitch can't get high? More importantly, would they risk the life of their snitch because they can't hit a bowl?




My best friend was a "snitch" because he got into some problems in high school. It was something really stupid like stealing money from a gas station or something like that, maybe even just stealing from a gas station.

When he "wore a wire" he was not allowed to do any drugs. Period. They actually drug tested him. He would make up just about any excuse to not smoke pot and no one ever questioned him just said "I have a drug test for work coming up," "Im buying this for a friend," "I cant smell like weed in front of my girl," whatever it would be.

I hardly think my best friend would admit to being a snitch, but lie to me about snitch rules.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7825084 - 01/02/08 07:54 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

You're misconstruing my use of the word snitch. I use snitch to define any kind of rat, not just the cowardly type like your friend who bust people to save their own hides. In this particular circumstance (as you can probably tell from the thread title) I was using it to refer to undercover cops who are indeed allowed to use drugs.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7825107 - 01/02/08 07:58 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
You're misconstruing my use of the word snitch. I use snitch to define any kind of rat, not just the cowardly type like your friend who bust people to save their own hides. In this particular circumstance (as you can probably tell from the thread title) I was using it to refer to undercover cops who are indeed allowed to use drugs.




I apologize then. My best friend wasnt an "undercover cop" he was employed by the local task force as an "informant" they actually paid him for this shit.

He just came clean to me about a year ago, I guess it had been weighing pretty heavy on his conscious. He told me all kinds of tips and what to look for in informants atleast.


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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7825262 - 01/02/08 08:30 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Yeah, well cops treat informants like shit anyway because no one likes a rat so I could see him not being able to smoke while being a rat. Mind posting what he said to look for?


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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7825302 - 01/02/08 08:38 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Yeah, well cops treat informants like shit anyway because no one likes a rat so I could see him not being able to smoke while being a rat. Mind posting what he said to look for?




No, I dont mind, I dont even talk to him much any more. He's so paranoid now that hes nearly a hermit. He rarely leaves his house, its quite sad actually.

He just showed me where he wore wires. Like not just on his stomach which is obvious, but sometimes on a ball cap, or even something as simple as a recorder in his pocket. They tape some kind of device around his leg.

He told me that informants dont like to travel when they buy drugs, they are always under survelience and have some type of code word for if a situation gets sticky. his was "Gunney isnt going to like this." They also put something in an informants trunk called a "boomer" to help amplify sounds from inside the vehicle.

The best thing is, make them travel. They dont like to move, because they must have multiple people tailing them.

Shit, come to think about it, I havent even talked to him since about August.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7825318 - 01/02/08 08:43 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

do any of you, when not doing any drugs for a while(or ever while using drugs), think that certain people you met are undercover cops or police informants?




yes, while meeting up with a strange guy who bought spore prints from me. his first questions were "do you grow hallucinogenic mushrooms?/where do you live?/can you sell me some shrooms now?" and all sorts of other dumb questions so i got the feeling he had never been in contact with anything even remotely resembling the drug culture or he was a narc.

either way i instantly started choosing my words carefully, denied everything and just gave him the prints saying it was a gift.

bad vibes, bad vibes.


--------------------


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7825376 - 01/02/08 09:00 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Gastronomicus is right

1. There is the issue of standing. Just cuz the cop violates the law doesn't mean you can exploit the issue to get your case dismissed. You have no right to have the police identify themselves, not do drugs, have agents that don't do drugs, so you have no right to enforce a breach of any law (even if they do exist) w/ regards to the prior to your advantage.

2. There is the issue of what entrapment actually is, which someone previously charecterized.

3. Like the standing argument, suppresion of evidence must be related to a constitutional right of the defendants. Cops lieing doesn't implicate a constitutional right on its own.

Check out a sticky in the security and safety forum for citations.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: johnm214]
    #7825388 - 01/02/08 09:02 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

And just to clarify...

say there is a law that "officer X must identify himself" so what? There are also laws that officer x must not use drugs.

What are you going to do about it? You have no remedy unless provided in teh statute itself, as your consitutional rights haven't been implicated. That the law has been broken in gathering evidence against you doesn't mean shit, except the prosecution can go after the cop if they feel like it.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: 2FiNiTe]
    #7825391 - 01/02/08 09:04 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

2FiNiTe said:
Quote:



so it really is a myth? good thing i've been pretty good at keeping my mouth shut.




Its not a myth. I'm not positive when this law was done away with but I know for a FACT that back in the 60's and 70's the law was that if you ask they had to tell the truth. I believe it was in the 80's that the law was done away with. But at one time this was a law that cops had to tell the truth when asked, but its no longer that way.




your facts are worthless.

1. show me the law

2. show me the relevance (so what if they don't identify themselves?)

there are plenty of laws without private causes of action attached to them


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: johnm214]
    #7825507 - 01/02/08 09:26 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

2FiNiTe said:
Quote:



so it really is a myth?  good thing i've been pretty good at keeping my mouth shut.




Its not a myth.  I'm not positive when this law was done away with but I know for a FACT that back in the 60's and 70's the law was that if you ask they had to tell the truth.  I believe it was in the 80's that the law was done away with.  But at one time this was a law that cops had to tell the truth when asked, but its no longer that way.




your facts are worthless. 

1. show me the law

2. show me the relevance (so what if they don't identify themselves?) 

there are plenty of laws without private causes of action attached to them




A lot of laws are changing. Not all or made public as they should be.
I know forsure cops lie and the judge belives them 1st.


  :sun:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: KaptKid]
    #7825515 - 01/02/08 09:28 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

well, not a law if its not public....

but yeah, even when suppresion is an issue, the ol' coppers will lie as convieniant to screw you out of that argument


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Police Informants and Undercover Cops [Re: johnm214]
    #7825573 - 01/02/08 09:44 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Plus, even if it is illegal for an undercover agent to use drugs, good luck getting the DA to prosecute the guy who hands them drug dealers, users, and manufacturers. It's a corrupt endeavor all around


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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