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Offlinesmily
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Registered: 07/13/06
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Re: Scene share [Re: snoot]
    #7823790 - 01/02/08 01:26 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

WOW what a pair of shots very awesome camera work


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    CrAnKy PiLlOwS YeAh PiLlOwS


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Scene share [Re: snoot]
    #7823822 - 01/02/08 01:36 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

I've seen thousands upon thousands of Chlorophyllum molybdites and none of them got nearly so tall. The stipe was also much darker in my collections, but maybe it's just the difference between California, US Green Gills, and those from Australia. But I think it is a different species.


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Invisiblefarmer88
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Re: Scene share [Re: snoot]
    #7825801 - 01/02/08 10:50 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

See spore print. The other photo shows the middle of the original three in the photo with two others from a slightly different location. Notice the difference in the stems, no scales on two of them. Two wet for prints on the others yet, just got wet paper.





Largest one 350 mm tall, 240 mm across cap, stem/stipe? 20mm thick at collar.
So white means it's edible?


Edited by farmer88 (01/02/08 10:56 PM)


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: Scene share [Re: farmer88]
    #7826359 - 01/03/08 02:51 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

I wouldn't eat it.


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I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Scene share [Re: farmer88]
    #7826486 - 01/03/08 05:46 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Those are not Macrolepiota procera.


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InvisibleEntersandman
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Re: Scene share [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #7826538 - 01/03/08 07:00 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

definitively Macrolepiota procera...
the lighter color is typical for some subspecies of this fungus.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Scene share [Re: Entersandman]
    #7826560 - 01/03/08 07:17 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

I have never seen a M. procera look like those.

farmers mushrooms are almost all white.

I have only found them once for certain in a pasture, and they looked nothing like the mushrooms farmer has.

Then I found two of them again a few months ago under a Oak tree, and they looked questionable and I never spent the time researching them furthur..

I personally would not eat what farmer has found, they look questionable to me.


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: Scene share [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #7826603 - 01/03/08 08:01 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

I'm guessing you live on the "subtropical or warm-temperate" East Coast? And i'm guessing by your name that you live near pastures? In that case:

Macrolepiota dolichaula

From: Young, A.M. "A Field Guide to the Fungi of Australia", UNSW Press, 2005

"Some people eat this species on a regular basis but others find it rather indigestible and suffer stomach upsets. The risk of confusing it with the immature Chlorophyllum molubdites is very real unless expert advice is available."

... well its not green gills but i still wouldn't eat it.



--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: Scene share [Re: undergrounder]
    #7826611 - 01/03/08 08:06 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Oh by the way wicked pics :thumbup: thanks for sharing. Seeing the whole development of them was amazing :imslow:


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Scene share [Re: undergrounder]
    #7826642 - 01/03/08 08:34 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

I'm guessing you live on the "subtropical or warm-temperate" East Coast? And i'm guessing by your name that you live near pastures?




Yes well I used to.

I wonder what ToxicMan thinks of these babies, hopefully he will school us all. I usually wait for him to chime in and then I just agree with him. :smile:

I am rather cautious about which edibles I consume from the wilds. I am not that hungry of a person to eat something that could possibly make me sick.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Scene share [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #7827102 - 01/03/08 11:41 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Well the stature is consistent with M. procera, though the colour seems too pale.

Who we really need here is Else.

Farmer88 lives in Australia.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Scene share [Re: CureCat]
    #7828178 - 01/03/08 04:10 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

The thing that first threw me off from them being Macrolepiota procera is that the caps appear to be smoother, unlike the brownish scaley patches on the caps as seen in this photograph:



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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Scene share [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #7829117 - 01/03/08 07:26 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

I got the high-res versions of these and posted them here:

http://mushroomobserver.org/5893

The full resolution versions are accessible by clicking on the image twice.


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: Scene share [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #7830011 - 01/03/08 10:29 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

GGreatOne234 said:
Quote:

I'm guessing you live on the "subtropical or warm-temperate" East Coast? And i'm guessing by your name that you live near pastures?




Yes well I used to.

I wonder what ToxicMan thinks of these babies, hopefully he will school us all. I usually wait for him to chime in and then I just agree with him. :smile:

I am rather cautious about which edibles I consume from the wilds. I am not that hungry of a person to eat something that could possibly make me sick.




Sorry about the confusing 'reply to' thing but i was talking to farmer88. :blush:

Quote:

Curecat said:

farmer88 lives in Australia




Yeah the Austen tayshus youtube video tipped me off. And we ALSO have an East Coast.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:


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Invisiblecactu
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Re: Scene share [Re: undergrounder]
    #7831068 - 01/04/08 08:21 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

why you still think cc is a macrolepiota procsera, you put it like that in your nomination i guees you should change it, to macrolepiota dolichauala as undergrounder say , or lepiota dolichauala all big lepiota are call macro , and miny lepiotas micro ....
and are about 400 diferent i guees in asutralia like more that 100 lepiotas,,
Lepiotaceous fungi comprise the white- and green-spored members of the Agaricaceae belonging to the genera Chamaemyces, Chlorophyllum, Cystolepiota, Endoptychum, Lepiota, Leucoagaricus, Leucocoprinus, Macrolepiota and Melanophyllum1. They have been fairly well-inventoried in Europe, but elsewhere, even in North America,
knowledge is rudimentary.
Lepiotaceous fungi form relatively fragile basidiocarps with white, rarely coloured, spores.Most are saprotrophic forest-floor dwellers that grow in the lower litter layers of the soil, and
probably decompose lignin and cellulose. They occur worldwide, with many representatives in tropical and temperate regions, and a few species in arctic-alpine areas and in deserts. Most taxa are
agaricoid, though a relatively small number of secotioid variants exist. Because of their relative rarity,
the clustering together of many species in limited habitats, and the differences in species composition along latitudinal transects, lepiotaceous fungi may be vulnerable to changes in the environment, both on a local (habitat destruction) and on a global scale (climate change). Sister taxa occur in different
parts of the temperate zones of the Northern Hemisphere, indicating that vicariance events might have played a role in speciation. A few species have a very extended distribution, and those species
occur either in man-made habitats or else in cooler habitats. Many ecological features of the lepiotaceous fungi are unknown, including the survival rates and colonization success of spores, nutrient and temperature requirements, longevity and size of genets. Conservation of existing diversity calls for
policies underpinned by new ecological research, more taxonomical studies, and more recording projects.

Misapplication of names is common. European names have, often mistakenly,been used for taxa in other regions. An example is M. procera (Scop.: Fr.) Singer,which occurs definitively in Europe, although its eastern extent is not known. Records
from eastern North America refer to a different, as yet undescribed, species complex. The Australian ‘M. procera’ has been described recently as the new species, M.clelandii Grgur. (Grgurinovic 1997). Similarly, in Colombia, Franco-Molano (1999)
has described M. colombiana for the South American ‘M. procera’. Japanese ‘M.procera’ may well represent a fourth species (Vellinga et al. 2003). Careful
morphological comparisons, as well as molecular research, will certainly bring other differences to light.
from here http://plantbio.berkeley.edu/~bruns/ftp/vellinga2004_eco.pdf


all my best vibrations and happy new year great pictures farmer88.


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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo


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Invisiblefarmer88
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Re: Scene share [Re: cactu]
    #7838249 - 01/06/08 05:35 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Just back, been away fishing for a few days.



I am looking forward to digesting your responses ... but not the shrooms.


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: Scene share [Re: farmer88]
    #7838261 - 01/06/08 05:47 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

farmer88 said:
Just back, been away fishing for a few days.



I am looking forward to digesting your responses ... but not the shrooms.




Blue Swimmers? Nice big ones.

I gotta get out to the beach.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:


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Invisiblefarmer88
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Re: Scene share [Re: cactu]
    #7846702 - 01/08/08 01:57 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Thanks Cactu, gets complicated and a bit fuzzy doesn't it? Looks like undergrounder pegged it, the photo looks close and from a local reference.

Tanks again to all contributors.


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Invisiblecactu
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Re: Scene share [Re: farmer88]
    #7848075 - 01/08/08 01:53 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

sure does i´m still learning about your leiotas is very cool i love to see a strange mushrooms and start searching the web is pretty amazing what sometimes you can found out
http://bugs.bio.usyd.edu.au/Mycology/Animal_Interactions/Toxins/tableToxicFungi.html
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0027-5514(200305%2F06)95%3A3<;442%3APATOM(>2.0.CO%3B2-M


um,urr ,ehem .ok

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=246E19BA4830CD56D4688508B6724CF6.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=219409
too bad we can se the hole article ha

Some Macrolepiota species are widespread, and reported from all over the world, others, such as M. excoriata (Schaeff. : Fr) Wasser, and M. phaeodisca Bellù, are restricted in their area of distribution (Courtecuisse and Duhem 1994, Nauta and Vellinga 1995; resp. Candusso and Lanzoni 1990). Many species occur in man-made habitats, such as gardens, lawns, compost-heaps; others occur in grasslands or open places in woods. There are striking disparities in the number of species in different areas. These differences are genuine and are not artifacts of the extent to which they have been studied or of taxonomic perspective. Western Europe is rich, with 11 to 19 species recorded, depending on the author. In North America, on the other hand, only two species generally are recorded, although the true number might be seven (senior author pers obs). Despite the fact that many species form big, conspicuous basidiocarps, several species are still undescribed. It is important to note that European names often have been applied prematurely to similar-looking species in other parts of the world, complicating clear understanding of this group. For example, the name M. procera has been misapplied to a North American entity (designated M. spec. nov. 5 in this study) and to the Australian M. clelandii Grgur. (Grgurinovic 1997).

This study has three themes. First, it focuses on phylogeny of Macrolepiota as inferred from ribosomal DNA data and how this phylogeny relates to the classification, based on morphology; second, on the placement of the taxa within the family Agaricaceae; and third, on the relationship of the secotioid genus Endoptychum Czern. to the Agaricaceae. In the course of the study several new taxa were discovered; they will be described separately. Many collections from a large area (including representatives from Africa, and Australia) were examined, and ITS and LSU sequences, and morphological characters were used. The choice deliberately was made to use a high number of taxa and samples instead of data from other genes from a small sample (e.g., Greybeal 1998).
here http://www.mycologia.org/cgi/content/full/95/3/442

In the Australian literature, at least some senses of the names Macrolepiota procera (as Lepiota procera), M. gracilenta (as L. gracilenta), M. konradii and M. mastoidea have been incorrectly applied to M. clelandii. Other records of these species may well also refer to M. clelandii.http://www.rbg.vic.gov.au/dbpages/fungi/cat/details.php3?id=4216

Taxonomic implications. Morphological characters,
particularly features of the covering layers, and the
spore apex, provide the decisive factor to rule out
the ‘‘big’’ Macrolepiota clade alternative and to re-
gard the two lineages as separate genera.
Lineage 4 comprises the type species of Macrole-
piota, M. procera, and keeps the name Macrolepiota.
Macrolepiota in this restricted sense comprises section
Macrolepiota and section Macrosporae with subsec-
tions Excoriatae Bon and Microsquamatae (Pa ´zma ´ny)
Bellu ` & Lanzoni of the infrageneric classification ad-
vocated by Bon (1993).the hole article here good but lot of information http://www.mycologia.org/cgi/reprint/95/3/442.pdf

However, the genus Macrolepiota itself is inferred to benot monophyletic (Vellinga & al., l.c.), and its membersare divided into two distinct clades: (1) the clade with thetype, M. procera (Vittad.) Singer, and species like M.dolichaula (Berk. & Broome) Pegler & Rayner, M. mas-toidea (Fr.: Fr.) Singer, M. excoriata (Schaeff.: Fr)Wasser, and M. clelandii Grgur.; and (2) members ofsect. Laevistipedesgrouped together with Chlorophyllumand E. agaricoides; this clade is a sister group toAgaricus L. The results of a preliminary study on thephylogeny of the lepotiaceous fungi by Johnson(Mycologia 91: 443–458. 1999) hinted already at thesefindings. Morphological characters, in particular thestructure of the covering layers of pileus and stipe, sup-port this division into two genera. Hence, the genus563Vellinga & de Kok (1539) Conserve Chlorophyllum51 August 2002: 563–564(1539) Proposal to conserve the name Chlorophyllum Massee againstEndoptychum Czern. (Agaricaceae)Else C. Vellinga1& Rogier P. J. de Kok21Department of Plant and Microbial Biology, University of California, 111 Koshland Hall #3102, BerkeleyCalifornia 94720, U.S.A. E-mail: vellinga@uclink.berkeley.edu2Centre for Plant Biodiversity Research, Australian National Herbarium, CSIRO Plant Industry, G.P.O. Box1600, Canberra A.C.T. 2601, Australia. E-mail: rogier.dekok@csiro.au
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 2
Macrolepiota is retained for sections Macrolepiota andMacrosporae (Singer) Bon, and strong molecular andmorphological evidence supports the synonymization ofChlorophyllum with Endoptychum, and the inclusion ofMacrolepiota sect. Laevistipedes in this genus.There are three reasons to conserve the nameChlorophyllum against Endoptychum. (1) The nameEndoptychumis associated with a secotioid habit, and isnot well-known. Indeed, the genus Endoptychumis nowacknowledged to be highly heterogeneous and not mono-phyletic, as noted above. Only the type remains andbelongs to the same monophyletic group as Chloro-phyllum and Macrolepiota sect. Laevistipedes. Main-taining Endoptychum would mean that a virtuallyunknown name associated with a single secotioid specieswould have to be adopted for at least nine agaricoidspecies, a group that contains widespread and well-known species including notable poisonous and ediblefungi. (2) It would be extremely confusing and danger-ous to change a name that physicians are trained to lookfor in medical emergencies involving mushroom poison-ing. This argument carries particular weight in NorthAmerica where Chlorophyllum molybdites is very com-mon in urban areas throughout the eastern and southernparts and is the principal cause of these emergencies. (3)The number of name changes would be somewhat less ifChlorophyllum were adopted.Vellinga & de Kok (1539) Conserve Chlorophyllum51 August 2002: 563–564564
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:QD2xMcI9kbsJ:plantbio.berkeley.edu/~bruns/ftp/vellinga2002.pdf+Lepiota+M.+clelandii+in+australia&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=mx

i guess we are close to and id maybe can be in this group
M.dolichaula (Berk. & Broome) Pegler & Rayner,
M. mas-toidea (Fr.: Fr.) Singer,
M. excoriata (Schaeff.: Fr)Wasser,
and M. clelandii Grgur.

Macrolepiota species on the other hand are not widespread, and there are many local spe-cies, with limited distributions. One example is M. procera which was once thought to be wide-spread, and recorded all over the world. Now, the Australian species is called M. clelandii, the one in South and Central America M. colombiana; the Japanese one is close to the European one, but slightly different; and the North American one is also a different species, yet to be described (it might even be several . . .). The real M. procerais now only known from Europe, and its eastern extent is still not known.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:qxR5Xle3yIoJ:plantbio.berkeley.edu/~bruns/ev/vellinga_2007_shaggyparasol.pdf+Lepiota+M.+clelandii+in+australia&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=mx

ALL THAT THINK ELSE C. VELLINGA ROCK RISE YOUR HAND http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:qxR5Xle3yIoJ:plantbio.berkeley.edu/~bruns/ev/vellinga_2007_shaggyparasol.pdf+Lepiota+M.+clelandii+in+australia&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=mx

ANY WAY IF YOU ARE BORED AND LIKE TO SEE NICE PICTURES OF AUSTRALIAN MUSHROOMS THIS GUY HAVE FEW http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/549821170wBtbXm?start=0
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/151440721nAWqqy

http://www.fungoceva.it/tav_Macrolepiota_excoriata.htm

http://www.funghiitaliani.it/index.php?showtopic=23048

http://liboupat2.free.fr/champili/lep-exc.htm


haha look what i found someone ,you know who did this
http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/show_name/5365

if you can do rna sinteis here is a linkhttp://beta.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q27S75
http://images.google.es/images?hl=es&q=macrolepiota%20excoriata%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&sa=N&tab=wi
http://www.hiddenforest.co.nz/fungi/family/agaricaceae/lepiota.htm

shit i have put many links sorry i got carry away
this blue lepiota what about it if you found those, huum mayne it make remember pelees lepiota.
http://www.hiddenforest.co.nz/fungi/family/agaricaceae/lepio03.htm
aparently your mushrooms are not even close to procsera see this are more like procera
http://www.blueswami.com/FungiDrawings.html?page=0&scope=1&sortby=id&dir=desc&pic=338
mas-toidea
so far i was´t able to locate pictures of Macrolepiota dolichaula
that look like that help only this http://www.vumba-nature.com/Macrolepiota%20dolichaula.htm
so far i think your specie in more close to mastoidea and to excoriata, but what can i said....
all my best was good to learn a bit , if you found more try to send some spore to you know who so we can see it in the microscope.
all my best......


--------------------

cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: Scene share [Re: cactu]
    #7849130 - 01/08/08 05:12 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I'm sorry I really don't know what the big mystery is. There are only two common Lepiota/Macrolepiota/Chlorophyllum species in Australia that reach that size and they are M.clelandii and M.dolichaula. Both are very common within their area and are far more likely than any obscure European or American import. It's like finding a patch of Ps. subaeruginosa and continuing to suggest that they might be Ps. cyanescens. If you don't agree with my suggestion and still insist that they're mastoidea, procera, clelandii or excoriata and not dolichaula, then

a) you've got microscopic vision,
b) you're confirming an ID account made in the 1890s of a mushroom that has since been renamed clelandii
c) you're ignoring the fact that the cap is uniformly white
d) ignoring the fact that these are in Australia, not Europe or the US.

This is clelandii. My photo.


This is dolichaula. (From here)


I still don't think it's necessary to transcribe the detailed ID description of dolichaula from A.M. Young's ID guide, but dolichaula fits the bill precisely. Cactu the picture you cited is from Zimbabwe and is mislabelled (Macrolepiota rhacodes).

Cactu if you're interested in reading the rest of that article i'll send it to Alan's database (if he doesn't have it already, which is highly unlikely). Far more useful though is this one.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:


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