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Offliner311ik
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Mi
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
does it really need to be that sterile?
    #7816366 - 12/31/07 09:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

in my pre-grow familiarization experiment i sprayed everything with lysol and did my work on the oven door with it on 500. that was it for my sterile procedure. i think i boiled the jars for an hour too.

Anyways, out of 4 jars, 2 honey/water, 2 wbs, only 1 of the wbs jars contamed. the 2 lc jars grew for a while and stopped, im guessing they ran out of honey to consume, i only used a knife tip in a pint. the wbs that didnt contam got a few white spots then gave up, no growth at all, so i just transfered 1 lc blob to the wbs jar to see what it would do. (used a lysoled spoon).

so how sterile do you really need to be?

ive read all the tek's and i know all about the tedious steps to being clean, im actually pc'ing right now.

It dont seem like you need to be as anal as the teks suggest tho. a lil lysol and room that is semi clean seems to work, but are there any experienced growers that can offer input on this?

dont give me a by the book you have to be clean or this is gonna happen response.

i want the reality. idc what the "proper" method is.
im lazy and cheap. will my oven door and lysol work, or is it really necessary to use all the extra steps


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InvisibleDontPlay
Yeah Science!
Male


Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 750
Loc: On Land most of the time....
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7816438 - 12/31/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well I would think putting the oven on 500 might have hurt some of the spores maybe..not sure about it. But my first few cakes I did it half ass on purpose. I didn't use a dry layer of vermiculite, didn't wear a mask, and the room I knocked up the jars in I didn't spray with lysol or anything.I also was not very careful when making my syringes. Not to mention I didn't use a PC I just used a pot with a lid to cook the jars. All 6 jars came out just fine and I got a rather good harvest. So as far as having to be that sterile I guess you don't have to be but your chances of good grows will be better if you do.


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Offliner311ik
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Registered: 01/24/06
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Loc: Mi
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: DontPlay]
    #7816450 - 12/31/07 09:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

the oven being on 500 just creates an updraft of warm air, the door doubles as a work bench, wich IMO eliminates the need for a glove box or flow hood. nothing ever gets hot.
(i read something here about it and said OMFG THATS PURE GENIUS!)

other than that, you gave me the exact answer i was lookin for. thx


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Invisiblegoldieman
On some other shit!


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 296
Loc: midwest
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7816463 - 12/31/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE SUPER ANAL. I DO THEOVEN TEK AND I PULL A RACK OUT AND COVER WITH ALUMINUM FOIL. I USUALLY WIPE DOWN THE FOIL WITH CLOROX WIPES OR AN ALCOHOL SOAKED SWAB. I KEEP HAND SANITIZER CLOSE BY AND USE IT CONSTANTLY. I ONLY TURN MY OVEN UP TO 180 DEGREES. IT SEEMS TO CREATE ENOUGH HEAT FOR AN UPDRAFT. I HAVE PRETTY GOOD LUCK WITH MY JARS. I MIGHT LOOSE 1 OUT OF EVERY DOZEN, IF THAT, WHILE DOING GRAIN TO GRAINS


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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7816478 - 12/31/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The oven tek, while good in theory, has been shown to not be very effective. You want to minimize drafts, not create them. The air is not hot enough to kill any airborne contaminants, and even if it were, it doesn't come in contact with them long enough - so what you end up with is swirling vortices of contaminated air.

The only time you should use Lysol is when you're attempting to sterilize the air around you or trying to kill contaminants/spores in a jar you're dumping. I can't really vouch for how effective "air sanitizers" are, but I don't use them personally.

Lysol used during the grow process has been shown to cause mutated mushrooms because it alters/scrambles its DNA in low quantities (even mycelial contact with the vapors can cause this.)


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Offliner311ik
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Mi
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7816557 - 12/31/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The oven tek, while good in theory, has been shown to not be very effective. You want to minimize drafts, not create them. The air is not hot enough to kill any airborne contaminants, and even if it were, it doesn't come in contact with them long enough - so what you end up with is swirling vortices of contaminated air.




why is it swirling? it should just be expanding and pushing itsself upwards imo. you just need it to keep contams from floating in right?
to me it seems air flowing up would keep spores from floating down.

we dont need sterile operation in the whole kitchen, just where our hands are.


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Offlinesoul_psychonaut
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 46
Loc: up north, Manitoba
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7816646 - 12/31/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

the cleaner the environment, the higher the success rate. Plain and simple. What's to say that one contaminated jar hasn't already comprimised your kitchen, or entire place at this point? The reality is you will likely soon see a descending success rate with each future grow. There is a very good reason sterility Is such a central theme to this hobby.


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Offlinetonyshroom
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Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 386
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: soul_psychonaut]
    #7816929 - 12/31/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i have also (just to see) did a grow with not many steps of sterilization. i did a jar and 2 bags of wbs. i was told i could not do it with out a pc. out of 2 ovens bags 1 got contamd(green mold) and the jar was fine. i boiled my bags for about an hour and a half along with my jar. noc'ed with no gloves no mask no lysol .i did get the needle red hot i also had no filter on my bags or my jar for air exchange. then i used my wbs bag and jar to spawn 4 big ass turkey bags with no patch/filter . they a colonizing as i speak. so i do not be leave you have to do everything people say. but i do be leave it increases your chances of success.


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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7817033 - 12/31/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

r311ik said:
why is it swirling? it should just be expanding and pushing itsself upwards imo. you just need it to keep contams from floating in right?
to me it seems air flowing up would keep spores from floating down.




Karman vortices.



Watch this video at about 2:20. When you place your items in the updraft, it creates turbulence in the moving air.


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OfflineNibin
Getting there
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7817038 - 12/31/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

r311ik said:
in my pre-grow familiarization experiment i sprayed everything with lysol and did my work on the oven door with it on 500. that was it for my sterile procedure. i think i boiled the jars for an hour too.

Anyways, out of 4 jars, 2 honey/water, 2 wbs, only 1 of the wbs jars contamed. the 2 lc jars grew for a while and stopped, im guessing they ran out of honey to consume, i only used a knife tip in a pint. the wbs that didnt contam got a few white spots then gave up, no growth at all, so i just transfered 1 lc blob to the wbs jar to see what it would do. (used a lysoled spoon).

so how sterile do you really need to be?

ive read all the tek's and i know all about the tedious steps to being clean, im actually pc'ing right now.

It dont seem like you need to be as anal as the teks suggest tho. a lil lysol and room that is semi clean seems to work, but are there any experienced growers that can offer input on this?

dont give me a by the book you have to be clean or this is gonna happen response.

i want the reality. idc what the "proper" method is.
im lazy and cheap. will my oven door and lysol work, or is it really necessary to use all the extra steps




If you are prepared to loose some of your jars then you don't have to be as sterile, but only good sterile technique will assure a near 100% success rate.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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Invisibleblaine
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Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 46
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7817330 - 12/31/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

r311ik said:
im lazy and cheap. will my oven door and lysol work, or is it really necessary to use all the extra steps




Logic says that lazy should motivate you enough to do it right the first time. Lazy and cheap costs you time, money...even safety.

If all of the experienced people say the same thing, I can't write all of them off as being anal-rententive elitists. Heed their advice for long term success. :wink:


--------------------
I come from the land of Lizards,
And the Lizards they have died


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Offliner311ik
n00b
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Mi
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: blaine]
    #7817360 - 12/31/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Watch this video at about 2:20. When you place your items in the updraft, it creates turbulence in the moving air.




its not actually in the updraft, its under it. the updraft is just creating a cushion that keeps stuff from falling into your work area.

were not in a wind tunnel obstructing the path, just looking for something to repel unwanted spores.

im not trying to argue or prove the oven tek works, just lookin for tr00f.

maybe i can send teh gfu and kids out for a while and buy some smoke bombs and experiment.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7817394 - 12/31/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dont give me a by the book you have to be clean or this is gonna happen response




You lost 4 out of 4 jars using a silly tek that was discredited years ago, but now you don't want to hear the right way to do it?. The problem is noobs have an idea and write up a "I wonder if this would work?" post, but phrase it as a tek, which then becomes searchable and other noobs see it and follow the darn thing, losing their work.

A simple fact of physics is the air that flows up from the oven MUST be replaced by cold air below. Therefore, there is just as much air flowing IN as there is flowing OUT. The result is a higher rate of contamination than if you were using open air, which is also not recommended.
RR


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Offliner311ik
n00b
Male

Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Mi
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: blaine]
    #7817403 - 12/31/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Logic says that lazy should motivate you enough to do it right the first time. Lazy and cheap costs you time, money...even safety.




by lazy and cheap i mean im not gonna buy a laminar flow hood, and im not gonna wear a lab coat. I dont wanna skip crucial steps, but at the same time i want simple and easy to even out with time and money.

if lysol and the kenmore "works" but flow hood and lab gear is reccomended, i want to be inbetween the 2 right now.

once i get good at growing and im using any tupperware, glass, shelf, pitcher or whatever i think would be good to grow something in ill dip into the advanced forum and worry about the ub3r sterilness.


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Offliner311ik
n00b
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 192
Loc: Mi
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7817419 - 12/31/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

A simple fact of physics is the air that flows up from the oven MUST be replaced by cold air below. Therefore, there is just as much air flowing IN as there is flowing OUT. The result is a higher rate of contamination than if you were using open air, which is also not recommended.
RR




lol, i was actually waiting for that to come up.


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OfflineNibin
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Registered: 11/29/05
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Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7817476 - 12/31/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

r311ik said:
Quote:

Logic says that lazy should motivate you enough to do it right the first time. Lazy and cheap costs you time, money...even safety.




by lazy and cheap i mean im not gonna buy a laminar flow hood, and im not gonna wear a lab coat. I dont wanna skip crucial steps, but at the same time i want simple and easy to even out with time and money.

if lysol and the kenmore "works" but flow hood and lab gear is reccomended, i want to be inbetween the 2 right now.

once i get good at growing and im using any tupperware, glass, shelf, pitcher or whatever i think would be good to grow something in ill dip into the advanced forum and worry about the ub3r sterilness.




Dammit, no one said you need a flowhood, you'll be fine with a still air "glovebox" made out of a 20 dollar rubbermaid with two holes cut out of the side.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom Flag
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7817511 - 12/31/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There are no shortcuts on the path of growing the mushroom yong grasshopper.

Only misfortune and sadness will prevail if you fail to follow the true path.


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Offliner311ik
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Registered: 01/24/06
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Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: Nibin]
    #7817521 - 12/31/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i have a "glovebox"

2 holes, dryer exhaust tube and some rubber gloves. it looks effective..

what about doing everyhting in my 29f garage?

no air movement, and no food should make it pretty sterile in there.. no?


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OfflineHappyTripping
Tranceformer
Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 119
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: r311ik]
    #7817531 - 12/31/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The temperature of your garage will make no difference to sterility.  There was a thread just yesterday/today about this.  And air moves in your garage, too.  :wink:


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OfflineDigitalNomad
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 158
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: does it really need to be that sterile? [Re: HappyTripping]
    #7817560 - 12/31/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I just use the really small half bathroom in my house. Shut the door, wipe everything down with alcohol/lysol etc, and just do the work in there. It's a tiny room, with no real air movement. I suggest that type of thing.

But, make sure you scrub it down.


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