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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Its more important to be nice than to be right
#7812932 - 12/30/07 09:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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This platitude works well in many arenas of life where social intercourse is important. But in many areas, the idea of getting along over principle is bullshit. Take the Iraq War for instance. Without getting into a political discussion, many leaders withheld their true feelings in order to get along with the majority and only came out of the closet when the polls told them it was OK to do so.
I get frequent PMs from various people saying I must be a bear IRL because of my confrontational debating style. Not so. However, without adversarial discussion, philosophy can never be refined, burning off the dross and keeping anything of substance.
It is like a MMA fighter who is a terror in the octagon and a gentleman outside the cage. There is a time and place to duke it out and a time to put the gloves away.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7812952 - 12/30/07 09:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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In addition to that I think that people will really get along only when they will stop getting offended.  It's not the contradictory talking that separates people but the superiority complex.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7813008 - 12/30/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Eat my shorts
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: Icelander]
#7813010 - 12/30/07 10:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7813019 - 12/30/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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But getting offended is fun! 
Moral outrage gives one a shot of self-righteous adrenalin and a misdirected focus for one's pent up anger.
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falcon


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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7813043 - 12/30/07 10:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Take the Iraq War for instance. Without getting into a political discussion, many leaders withheld their true feelings in order to get along with the majority and only came out of the closet when the polls told them it was OK to do so.
Why mention something if you don't plan to discuss it?, but at the same time plan to use it to support your position in an argument. Is there a name for that tactic in confrontational debate? Hmmm...
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kotik
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7813062 - 12/30/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Its more important to be nice than to be right
aw, that's nice... but you're wrong.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: falcon]
#7813148 - 12/30/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Because a discussion can branch in almost any direction and that particular direction has been discussed in a hundred threads on the Political Forum if you are anxious to go down that path.
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falcon


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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7813183 - 12/30/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Because a discussion can branch in almost any direction
Yes it can, and since you are using that as a support for your argument, you put it on the table for discussion. Your denial of it as point of contention is disingenuous.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7813218 - 12/30/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think either quality matters.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: falcon]
#7813436 - 12/30/07 12:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Your denial... is disingenuous.
That's because I am not from around here.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7813898 - 12/30/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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dross dross dross. Where is this substance you speak of?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7813920 - 12/30/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: I don't think quality matters.
And you are living proof. Butt I still luv ya brother.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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falcon


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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7814205 - 12/30/07 04:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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without adversarial discussion, philosophy can never be refined
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7814291 - 12/30/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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People ALWAYS do things for positive reasons... even if the outcome is not always viewed as positive.
I imagine Hitler did what he did for positive reasons (at least in HIS head).
People who insist others should act, "Nicer" do so with the best of intentions. People who try to teach, "Truth" to others, also have good intentions.
The dramatic irony from where I sit is: "Right" and "Nice" are both relative terms.
One man's, "Right" is another man's garbage... and one man's, "Nice" is another man's evil.
This is why we can't all get along... ... and THAT is why Rodney King still cries himself to sleep at night.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (12/30/07 04:39 PM)
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mushbaby
woodswalker




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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: Rose]
#7815132 - 12/30/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I need proof OC that you have ever chosen to be nice as opposed to right.
I just don't believe it!
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7815187 - 12/30/07 08:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's easier to know that you're being nice than to know that you're right(although many pretend to be capable of such).
Those who "know" they're right are usually the biggest Cosmic Schmucks out there.
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Edited by Silversoul (12/30/07 09:11 PM)
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: mushbaby]
#7815220 - 12/30/07 09:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think Orgone makes a decent point here. Politics should be entirely systematic, based upon basic human principles. Religion, emotion, "Good-will" have no place in politics, in any explicit, or sublime form, because they can and will always be used to exploit the populous.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7816012 - 12/31/07 05:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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As I see it they are not entirely inclusive(*). I think 'wrong' can be sold behind a 'nice' mask and of course is most often, almost always be done so. To sell 'right' behind a 'bad' mask is also a possibility and in the 'right' light, that is that kind what 'rebells' do.. There it becomes tricky, as their bad only must not violate their sense of 'right', what's not true for the wrong-doer who think they do right - damned, I stepped into the context trap again 
edit: *I wrote exclusive, but meant inclusive, sorry folks for eventual confusion !
Edited by BlueCoyote (01/02/08 12:57 PM)
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7818636 - 12/31/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: It is like a MMA fighter who is a terror in the octagon and a gentleman outside the cage. There is a time and place to duke it out and a time to put the gloves away.
Is the fighter a "terror" in the octagon because of his expertise in submissions, or because of his practice of bloody brute force....?
Sometimes you need a spoon, sometimes you need a fork....  There is a strategy in maneuvering thru any situation in life....
Personally, I think you would be cool outside the ring too.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7822216 - 01/02/08 12:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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well it all depends on the situation you're in, who you are talking to, and the subject matter.
sometimes, even in those social situations you described earlier that being nice is better than being correct, there are times when being correct may be essential.
i think this post is really general....
unless of course you are just really saying is,
don't mind my debating style, i just think this is a place were being correct is more important.
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: kaiowas]
#7822811 - 01/02/08 07:22 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Would you like a job as my official translator?
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7822872 - 01/02/08 08:14 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Maybe the only way to really be right is to be nice. Wouldnt that be a bummer?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7822879 - 01/02/08 08:21 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Can you translate this into real life? Being nice has nothing to do with one's ability to reason.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7822896 - 01/02/08 08:38 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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If by being right, you mean valid in the context of universal reality, then I would say they seem to coincide.
For real life examples I would cite the teachings of Buddhism and Taoism, among others.
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7822901 - 01/02/08 08:42 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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I mean we are talking about some pretty vague words here, but some might say that the buddha was both "Nice" and "right", and I am saying that it seems that this is more than a coincidence.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7822931 - 01/02/08 09:01 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper23 said: If by being right, you mean valid in the context of universal reality, then I would say they seem to coincide.
For real life examples I would cite the teachings of Buddhism and Taoism, among others.
BOTH Buddhism and Taoism are "right" in a given context. You can't appreciate whether they are right or not at a universal scale, simple because you don't know the universe. I think we can twist words and meanings here, but it was pretty clear what this subject was about. This forum usually seems to be split in people who are bringing contra arguments (be them correct or incorrect) and people who get offended by those, being unable to separate themselves from the idea they present - which in extent makes them unable to step back and analyze the entire situation all over again (this is imperative for whoever wants to reason instead just argue). I think it is a great life lesson for everyone and it also builds a strong character. I learned that those who ask for "niceness" in such situations are not so nice themselves. Also they are not "right". I think that Buddha would have never had the pretension to ask niceness from anyone. Kinda makes you think.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7822939 - 01/02/08 09:06 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Which is nicer, telling someone something that they want to hear or something that they need to hear; a brutal disillusioning truth or a gentle reinforcement of a fantasy?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7822953 - 01/02/08 09:14 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Are you sure you want the honest answer?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7822974 - 01/02/08 09:27 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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As long as you let me down easy...
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7822979 - 01/02/08 09:33 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Generally all I was trying to say, is that those I take for enlightened folk, seem to be nice. The way I see it, the wisdom of enlightened is more right than any democrat or republican.
Whose right pro-choice or pro-life?
One can conceptualize about being right, as if it simply means logistical validity, but the reality of any given situation, is that this validity must apply to something. So to answer your previous question, being "nice" (which could apply to artistic beauty, or compassion) has to do with the context of this reasoning.
I dont think that being right can be exlusively intuition or intellect. It must be a harmony of the two.
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7822980 - 01/02/08 09:36 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Which is nicer, telling someone something that they want to hear or something that they need to hear; a brutal disillusioning truth or a gentle reinforcement of a fantasy?
What if what they want to hear and truth are the same thing? This certainly seems plausible. Perhaps through skillfull action, being nice and being truthful to another is the same thing. This makes the most sense to me.
Why is it that humanity seems to seek happiness through truth?
This is part of the reason I don't buy into certain cynical philosophies. When people are so sad, I cant believe they are right. Ignorance is not bliss. Awareness is.
You make it sound as if being nice, is always a gentle reinforcement of fantasy. But really, I cant see how gently reinforcing fantasy could be considered nice at all. Maybe it is nice like giving someone crack or heroin to deal with their issues.
My opinion is that through skillfull action, being nice and being are cooperative.
Edited by daytripper23 (01/02/08 10:01 AM)
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7822985 - 01/02/08 09:39 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: As long as you let me down easy...
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7823020 - 01/02/08 10:00 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Let's establish first what's nice for you. From the answers that you've been giving you seem to be OK with what people say, as long as they say it "nice". Well excuse my honesty, but this sounds a little gay.  People are so complex in their behavior and in the way they make use of language that it is absurd to state that someone is not nice only by the way they construct their answers. Kind of reminds me of all those so out fashioned psychology tests. You can never determine who someone really is based on how they write, emoticons they use... it's childish to think that niceness resides in that.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7823053 - 01/02/08 10:16 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
From the answers that you've been giving you seem to be OK with what people say, as long as they say it "nice". Well excuse my honesty, but this sounds a little gay. 
Nope. I did not say that. This is actually a good example of something that is both mean and ignorant.
What I said, is that I believe being nice, and being truthful are cooperative, and coincide, through skillful action.
Quote:
People are so complex in their behavior and in the way they make use of language that it is absurd to state that someone is not nice only by the way they construct their answers. Kind of reminds me of all those so out fashioned psychology tests. You can never determine who someone really is based on how they write, emoticons they use... it's childish to think that niceness resides in that.
Who someone is, is determined by their action. What do you think, that writing has no consequences? Ever read a book that changed your life? Writing, is action, that has both mental and physical consequences on others.
If someone wrote a highly influencial anti-semetic book, I would consider this person not "not nice" in the same way that I would call the action of killing jews not nice.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7823096 - 01/02/08 10:29 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nope. I did not say that. This is actually a good example of something that is both mean and ignorant.
WTF dude calm down  You clearly said:
Quote:
What if what they want to hear and truth are the same thing? This certainly seems plausible. Perhaps through skillfull action, being nice and being truthful to another is the same thing. This makes the most sense to me.
Perhaps the way I expressed myself was not entirely correct, but what I wanted to say was that you seem to be ok with hearing honesty, as long as it's presented in a "soft" manner. Try not to jump into conclusions nest time, and give straight answers. Getting offended doesn't improve any discussion.
Quote:
Who someone is, is determined by their action. What do you think, that writing has no consequences? Ever read a book? Writing, is action, that has both mental and physical consequences on others.
Excuse me saying that (or don't excuse me if you don't want) but I detect so much butt-hurt fullness in what you say. You can't change people and you can't change the way they respond to you. Going on and on about being nice and considering "skillful actions" (whatever that means ) is nothing more but a mental masturbation. Life IS as it is, and accepting reality (which is not to be confused with just agreeing) has proven to be the most efficient solution of handling this experience.
Quote:
If someone wrote a highly influencial anti-semetic book, I would consider this person not "not nice" in the same way that I would call the action of killing jews not nice.
I hope you are aware of the fact that many people would consider an act of antisemitism you calling jews... jews, instead of calling them Israelis.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7823203 - 01/02/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Nope. I did not say that. This is actually a good example of something that is both mean and ignorant.
WTF dude calm down  You clearly said:
Quote:
What if what they want to hear and truth are the same thing? This certainly seems plausible. Perhaps through skillfull action, being nice and being truthful to another is the same thing. This makes the most sense to me.
Perhaps the way I expressed myself was not entirely correct, but what I wanted to say was that you seem to be ok with hearing honesty, as long as it's presented in a "soft" manner. Try not to jump into conclusions nest time, and give straight answers. Getting offended doesn't improve any discussion.
I did not say that I think is ok to hear honesty as long as its presented in a "soft" manner. I do not think being nice is presenting things softly, though it can certainly be part of it.
Quote:
Who someone is, is determined by their action. What do you think, that writing has no consequences? Ever read a book? Writing, is action, that has both mental and physical consequences on others.
Quote:
MushroomTrip said: Excuse me saying that (or don't excuse me if you don't want) but I detect so much butt-hurt fullness in what you say.
Isnt it irrelavent whether I'm butthurt or not? I simply said that writing is an action, no different than others, with consequences.
Quote:
MushroomTrip said: You can't change people and you can't change the way they respond to you. Going on and on about being nice and considering "skillful actions" (whatever that means ) is nothing more but a mental masturbation.
Life IS as it is, and accepting reality (which is not to be confused with just agreeing) has proven to be the most efficient solution of handling this experience.
Again I was merely stating that writing has consequences, just like more physical activities.
But if you want to argue that ALL our actions have no external consequences, including activities spanning from shooting someone in the head, to writing a book about how to shoot someone in the head, then that is a valid opinion.
Edited by daytripper23 (01/02/08 11:12 AM)
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daytripper23
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7823221 - 01/02/08 11:05 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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And Ill describe to you what I mean by skillfull action.
It is effective pursuit of quality. If you are an artist, or have a degree of appreciation for fine art, you would know this is nothing to scoff at.
Edited by daytripper23 (01/02/08 11:13 AM)
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7823252 - 01/02/08 11:13 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
It is effective pursuit of quality. If you are an artist, or have a degree of appreciation for fine art, this is not a concept to scoff at.
Pursuit of quality? One doesn't have to "pursue" quality in order to make art. Art in entirely subjective. Perhaps you would like to elaborate on your stance because the way it now, it's very vague.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7823300 - 01/02/08 11:21 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pursuit of quality? One doesn't have to "pursue" quality in order to make art.
Well you dont try to make shitty art do you? when you make art you try to make art of (Good) quality, and at the same time you are creating substantial quality. This is art in its two basic characteristics.
Quote:
Art in entirely subjective.
Nice!
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7823357 - 01/02/08 11:32 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Well you dont try to make shitty art do you? when you make art you try to make art of quality.
Depends on what you're following. One can make an art of everything, from breathing to painting to simply being. "Quality" in art is defined by some cultural standards. One might find a quality painting by what the "trend" is, by what most people value, by what critiques say is valuable. Personally I don't consider THAT Art, this is a frivolous need to be in the center of attention and appreciation. Art is much deeper that that, it transcends all those limited and crappy standards and it comes from the love of expressing oneself. Perhaps YOU try to make art of quality. 
Quote:
Nice!
Expand please
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7823445 - 01/02/08 11:49 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Depends on what you're following. One can make an art of everything, from breathing to painting to simply being. "Quality" in art is defined by some cultural standards. One might find a quality painting by what the "trend" is, by what most people value, by what critiques say is valuable. Personally I don't consider THAT Art, this is a frivolous need to be in the center of attention and appreciation. Art is much deeper that that, it transcends all those limited and crappy standards and it comes from the love of expressing oneself. Perhaps YOU try to make art of quality. 
Expanding:
Nice!
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7823576 - 01/02/08 12:26 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Before you further explain to me the dynamics of the art that you seem to be so well versed in, I wonder do you know how great this concept is I just showed you?
I could again debate you point by point, but try listening to this concept with an open mind. Just pretend for a moment that I know what I am talking about.
I use the word quality for very specific reasons! It applies to the two basic and fundamental properties of art. This is fine art, the art of breathing, the art of life etc... it is
A. Substantial quality. B. Aesthetic quality.
If you really study this concept, youll understand how ethics and aesthetics can actually be the same thing, just like "nice" and "right".
Im not going to describe it, because I have tried over and over to do this, and i am becoming frustrated. But just ask yourself this:
Is it a coincidence that so many great artists petition for peace? Is it a coincidence that the Buddha spoke both truthfully and compassionately?
Thats it for me. Goodbye.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7823629 - 01/02/08 12:43 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
If you really study this concept, youll understand how ethics and aesthetics can actually be the same thing, just like "nice" and "right".
No they can't. All these terms are subjective and each time when someone tries to define and and universally apply them, a new form of authority is born. Do we really want that? I personally do not.  Ethics and "right" touch a very sensible ground: they are related to human insecurities and fears, the main enemies of reason and understanding. It's pretty easy to see how these will soon stand against the most basic concept of progress.
Quote:
Im not going to describe it, because I have tried over and over to do this, and i am becoming frustrated. But just ask yourself this:
Is it a coincidence that so many great artists petition for peace? Is it a coincidence that the Buddha spoke both truthfully and compassionately?
Of course there's no coincidence. Artists do it mainly for marketing, because that's the trend. Also because they reached a social status where they don't face poverty anymore. It's so much easier to plead for world peace when you don't lack any comfort.  And can we please, get pass the Buddha example? I grew tired of it already.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7824217 - 01/02/08 03:46 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Would you like a job as my official translator?
yes...why not...how much do i get paid?
but really, isn't that what you are saying?
I'm not implying that, as you put it, the "brutal disillusioning truth" is wrong or that this sort of debating style should not be used. Quite the contrary...
however, we've had this conversation before and I still think that the truth does not always have to come in the form of abrasiveness.
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7824234 - 01/02/08 03:52 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: It's more important to be nice than to be right.
How about being true to ourselves and following our highest joy?
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7824324 - 01/02/08 04:24 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: It's more important to be nice than to be right.
How about being true to ourselves and following our highest joy?
what if someone's highest joy is being mean or even in extreme cases murder?
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: kaiowas]
#7824518 - 01/02/08 05:38 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Exactly. Hitler took great joy and pride in his Final Solution and felt it was his calling.
The 9/11 suicide bombers held similar notions as does President Bush no matter how many Iraqi citizens die for his vision.
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Icelander
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7824873 - 01/02/08 06:56 PM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Not to mention you and me.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7826326 - 01/03/08 02:30 AM (16 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
How about being true to ourselves and following our highest joy?
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mushbaby
woodswalker




Registered: 09/30/06
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: daytripper23]
#7826531 - 01/03/08 06:56 AM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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But if a person's way of clarifying what they think is "right" and "true" is so not nice that they turn away the person they are trying to teach, aren't they defeating their own purpose?
None of the teachers that have made a difference in my life or thoughts did so by calling me an idiot.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: mushbaby]
#7826740 - 01/03/08 09:21 AM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
None of the teachers that have made a difference in my life or thoughts did so by calling me an idiot.
None of the teachers that have made a difference in my life or thoughts did so by wearing a skimpy red bikini and blowing me kisses.
Damn!
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: kaiowas]
#7826838 - 01/03/08 09:49 AM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
kaiowas said:
Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: It's more important to be nice than to be right.
How about being true to ourselves and following our highest joy?
what if someone's highest joy is being mean or even in extreme cases murder?
that is not necessarily my business. every one is in charge of his or her own evolution.
if somebody chooses to hinder another's joy by means of violence then it is to be resolved by the community if not first by the individual involved IMO.
another person's choices are no excuse to prevent my own happiness.
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mushbaby
woodswalker




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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7826849 - 01/03/08 09:52 AM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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You might have paid more attention to them, but might not have heard a word they said so it's probably a good thing they didn't.
Are you saying you want me to "teach you something"? 
Where'd your interpretor go?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: mushbaby]
#7826944 - 01/03/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Are you saying you want me to "teach you something"?
If a believer and a skeptic get together it is like matter and anti-matter colliding in a world-destroying explosion. Are you ready to take on such a responsibility?
Ah hell, screw the world! Let's go for it.
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mushbaby
woodswalker




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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7827749 - 01/03/08 02:37 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Honey after I got thru with you , you'd be so twitterpatted you'd agree to everything I said.
Then what would P&S do without you? All the skeptics would have a contract out on me. If of course we all lived thru the explosion.
But I like living on the edge.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: mushbaby]
#7827980 - 01/03/08 03:30 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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All the skeptics would be lining up for the video. No woman alive has survived Shmoopyization unchanged.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7828262 - 01/03/08 04:32 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: Rose]
#7828285 - 01/03/08 04:40 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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What does she have in her hand, a tampon?
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7828340 - 01/03/08 04:56 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Good question... I didn't notice that.
Assuming it is NOT a tampon (just something which looks like one) I think she's the woman for Org.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette



Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7828433 - 01/03/08 05:23 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
Quote:
kaiowas said:
Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: It's more important to be nice than to be right.
How about being true to ourselves and following our highest joy?
what if someone's highest joy is being mean or even in extreme cases murder?
that is not necessarily my business. every one is in charge of his or her own evolution.
if somebody chooses to hinder another's joy by means of violence then it is to be resolved by the community if not first by the individual involved IMO.
another person's choices are no excuse to prevent my own happiness.
it being your business is neither here nor there.
The idea here is to be wary of single noted doctrines to apply to mass amounts of people. if you had said "I'll follow my highest joy and be true to myself for the compassion and love for others," then that's different because you are only speaking for yourself.
however, "being true to ourselves and following our highest joy" does a couple of things
1) including 'our' is setting up a way of thinking for more than yourself and I'm sorry but not everyone is the same...which leads to
2) 'Highest joy' is very general my friend because each of us are different. sometimes, someone will have to self sacrifice for the good of others, which may not be the highest joy. It may be of highest pain even. I'm not doing this to be a dick, because I see what you mean, but I'm putting this across to you because its good to keep in the back of you mind that everyone will interpret and see these words through, often, very different lenses.
highest joy even implies that there's some sort of joy out there that is above and beyond anything else that we are. that somehow, we as humans aren't already being true to ourselves, that we are not already exhibiting our true nature.
same with OC's it's more important to be nice than right...well it depends on the situation, does it not?
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: kaiowas]
#7828622 - 01/03/08 06:18 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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for pointing out my cliché. I understand that you don't intend to talk down.
Looks like I might just have to sit down and discover the personal meanings that lie behind the words 'our' and 'highest', as they relate to me and my own spiritual path.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: Rose]
#7829724 - 01/03/08 09:36 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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In the picture she is incredulously explaining how 'big' I am (or at least how she remembered it).
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7829745 - 01/03/08 09:40 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: In the picture she is incredulously explaining how 'big' I am (or at least how she remembered it).
Hhhhhmmmmm..... She is only holding up three fingers..... ***scratches head***
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7829849 - 01/03/08 10:02 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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Listen Buster, it was a sub-zero, wintery Montana day and we were attempting a 'snowie', OK?
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Its more important to be nice than to be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7829858 - 01/03/08 10:03 PM (16 years, 29 days ago) |
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>^;;^<
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