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geokills
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How to Retire Richly - [a discussion of 401(k), IRA, and Roth IRA retirement accounts] 1
#7808110 - 12/28/07 05:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Want to be filthy rich? Don't know where to start?  Here's some general financial advice that will serve you well for a lifetime. 
This is not a joke, and is honestly here to help you live & retire richly. I know it's long, and if you decide to be smart and start investing, you'll have even more to read and learn as you go along, but... it WILL be worth it! 
The first thing you need to do is keep yourself from being poor! This means getting your spending under control. If you have any debt, curtail your discretionary spending (things like movies, booze, and herb), and use the money you save to pay off your debt. You can't expect to get rich while you owe people money or while you only make the minimum payments on your credit card. True, some people can use debt to their advantage by taking on very low interest debt (such as a student loan) and investing it into a higher paying asset such as a bank CD... but generally this is not an option for most people, and the returns you make will not be fabulous.
So you're out of debt, and you're making some money... what now?
Well in order to invest, you need capital (which is basically cash you have that is free to be spent). If you're living paycheck to paycheck, you need to keep track of all your expenses for one month - even things as menial as a stick of gum or a pack of cigarettes - and lay out your expenses (what you've spent) alongside your income (what you've earned). This will give you a clear idea of where your money is going, and how you can make small changes in your lifestyle in order to save up some capital each month to invest. It shouldn't be hard to save money as soon as you can stop buying the things you don't really need.
Think you're too young for this? You'll worry about it later? Think again! The younger you start to invest, the easier (and I mean MUCH easier) it will be to ensure that you have enough money to retire comfortably when that time comes. This is all thanks to the beauty of compound interest, alongside some of the retirement account options available today in the US which allow you fantastic tax advantages. Even one year of inaction can cost you a whole lot of unrealized profit... especially when you consider that retirement accounts are designed to build up over decades! Even if you're late to the party, you can still invest for retirement, and certainly should, but the point is to get started soon so that your money will be able to do more work for you, and you'll be able to work less for your money!
Quote:
This is a pretty important concept to understand, so you should probably read this:
"Here's how compound interest works: you deposit money in a bank at a 4 percent rate, and every year the interest compounds, meaning you receive your interest payment from the bank, and the bank starts paying interest on what had been its interest payment in addition to the interest it pays on your deposit. Of course, compounding works for you in many more situations than that. For example, from January 1970 to December 2006, the average compounded rate of return (including reinvestment of dividends) for the Standard & Poor's 500 was 11.5 percent. The S&P 500 is the most representative index of large-cap, American companies, encompassing all the large publicly traded companies in the country, and is frequently used as a stand-in for the market when judging the performance of mutual funds or investors. It's the benchmark all professional investors measure themselves against. If we assume that for thirty-five years, an investor compounded at only 10 percent annually, behind the S&P 500, we're looking at someone who made a great deal of money. If you were to begin with merely $2,000, and every year add an additional $2,000, you would have $652,458.48 at the end of thirty-five years. Back in the 1970s, $2,000 was a lot of money, but $652,458.48 is nothing to look down on today, especially on a $72,000 investment. If you went the extra mile and invested $4,000 at the beginning and added another $4,000 every year, you would have $1,304,916.97 after thirty-five years. At that point, you could retire, put your $1,304,916.97 in U.S. Treasury bonds that yield roughly 5 percent annually, and earn close to the median salary among Americans over the age of 44: $66,995. All of that because you used your money to make money, and that was with a conservative rate of return that lagged the S&P 500. If you had simply bought an S&P 500 mutual fund, a fund with very low fees that buys all the stocks in the index and holds them, you would have done even better."
- Jim Cramer
I've figured out how much I'm making, and how much I'm spending. In so doing, I've managed to save at least $100 each month, now what?
First off, congratulations on getting out of debt and having some capital (cash) on hand to invest with. You are already a huge step ahead of most Americans, unfortunate as it is for the state of our population at large. Good on you, provided you are young and can keep up this discipline, not overspending, and reserving a chunk of change for investment each year, you should have no trouble retiring with plenty of moolah.
How to invest your saved cash will depend on what type of job you have, how much income you are currently receiving, as well as how old you are. Since I am not a professional financial adviser, I am only going to breeze through the main retirement accounts currently available in the US, and then suggest some further reading for those who want to take their future seriously, and who want to be filthy rich (or at least make their life a little easier)!

What are all these IRA's, Roth IRA's, 401(k), 403(b) things?
These are all names for different retirement accounts available in the United States. The reason you want to set up one of these special retirement accounts is that they will afford you significant tax advantages, thereby allowing you to make more out of your money over time.
If you work with a company that offers a 401(k) with matching contribution, you should always invest your capital with the 401(k) first, but only up to the point of your maximum employer match. So if your employer will match your first $2000 of contributions, don't put any more than that into your 401(k) each year (and if you want to invest more towards retirement, contribute the additional capital to an Individual Retirement Account instead). This is because 401(k)'s involve higher fees and are more restrictive than independently run IRA accounts. But if your employer is going to match your contributions, you may as well take them up on that offer as you can't beat free money! Of course, if you quit that job, be sure to rollover your 401(k) into an IRA, so that you won't be stuck paying those ridiculous fees and you won't be receiving anymore matching contributions anyway.
IRA accounts can be opened at most banks, including online through discount brokers such as SCHWAB, Fidelity, or TD Ameritrade (amongst others I'm sure).
So I'm a student, or don't work with an employer that offers a 401(k) plan, which IRA is for me?
If you are making less than $100,000 annually, you should definitely open up a Roth IRA account before the 31st of the year, and bring up to $4000 (the 2007 contribution limit) with you to fund it. You should be able to do this at most financial institutions, as well as online. I have mine setup with www.tdameritrade.com - took all of 10 minutes and a trip to the post office.
The Roth IRA is, in my opinion, the best retirement investment account available. Unlike other retirement accounts, a Roth IRA allows you to withdraw the total amount that you have contributed to it, at any time, and without any penalty. Beyond your contributions, any capital gains you have earned on your investments will be eligible for tax-free withdrawal when you turn 59.5.
A regular IRA account is the next best option, if you are making more than $100,000 annually. The difference here is that your contributions are tax-deductible (untaxed), and therefore you get the advantage of the money that you didn't have to pay to the IRS, now working as increased capital for your investments over time. Unfortunately, you will have to pay taxes when you begin to withdraw from your traditional IRA account, and you are not allowed to withdraw any of the money without penalty until you turn 59.5.
To recap, the Roth IRA allows you to withdraw all of your contributions without penalty at any time, and your final withdrawals during retirement are also tax free. So if you can, do the Roth IRA for shizzle!
I've setup my 401(k) / IRA / Roth IRA, what do I invest in?
401(k)'s typically don't offer a lot of solid options for investment. The one thing you don't want to do, ever, is put your 401(k) contributions towards the company's own stock. This is because you want to stay diversified! You have already invested yourself with your employer (by way of your paycheck), so if they go under and can't afford to pay you, you don't also want to be stuck with their stock - since odds are that if they can't pay you, their stock will be tanking too! For this reason, if you are investing in a 401(k), try to get your money tied into an S&P 500 index fund or some similar average stock market investment fund.
If you're running your own IRA, you can invest in a whole lot of things, from CD's, to bonds, to stocks, mutual funds, Money Market Accounts and more. This is why the IRA's are so fucking sweet - 'cause you retain control over your money the whole time. Keeping in mind that you always want to stay diversified, you should start out with something that is inherently diversified, such as an index fund, or a mutual fund (but be careful with mutual funds, as many of them underperform a traditional S&P 500 index fund and charge you higher fees for management).
If you want to invest in specific stocks, you should try to find stable stocks for companies that are actually making money. If the stock pays out an annual dividend (a yearly cash payment for each share that you own), all the better as this will provide a cushion underneath the stock - for as the stock price declines, the dividend yield will increase (consider a $1 dividend on a $10 stock, and suddenly the stock goes down to $8... the dividend yield has now increased from 10% to 12.5%), thereby attracting new investors and preventing the stock from falling too terribly during hard times. Some suitable examples of solid dividend paying stocks include AT&T (T), Altria (MO), and Proctor & Gamble (PG). Health companies are also well positioned for the long haul, even if they don't pay a dividend, such as Hologics (HOLX) and Medco Health Services (MHS). Remember, since this is about your retirement account, and you can only contribute a limited amount of capital each year, losing a chunk of it will hurt more than if you were to lose capital in a regular investment account that you can add money to at any time. Therefore, it is important to be a little more conservative with your retirement investments.
Now if you're already nearing retirement, you'll want to be a lot more conservative with your investments, as you don't have a lifetime to make up for any losses you may incur. Therefore, it is typically advised that as you age, you put a greater proportion of your investments into Bonds as opposed to Stocks, since stocks carry much more risk (but also much more reward). Generally speaking, you probably don't even need to think about buying bonds until you're 30 - 35.
I think I'll leave it at that for now, and hopefully will have inspired some of you to open up your first retirement account (or open an individual retirement account in addition to the 401k you have through your job). It's never too early to start investing! I'm 25 years old and I wish I'd started informing myself on the ways of the market and investing earlier still. For 2007, the stock market on average (S&P 500) gave about a 5% gain. In this past year, my investment strategy has afforded me a 22% gain. It's not a piece of cake, and it's taken me two and half years to start feeling truly comfortable watching my portfolio value jump up and down without panicking and pulling out my money. But with a little discipline and dedication, you can make yourself rich without much sweat!
For specific information on the different retirement accounts, check these :
For a comprehensive overview of how to plan your finances for life, check out:- Jim Cramer's Stay Mad For Life
(This is a must-have for anyone serious about planning for their future. I bought 12 copies to hand out to family and friends this month!)
To learn how to better play the stock market in specific, check these:
Yes, I realize I'm pumpin' Jimmy C like mad here.. but the man knows his shit. If I hadn't been following him daily, and seeing for myself the results of his disciplines, I wouldn't be so confident in advocating his instruction. As with any investor, he will be at times dead wrong on specific stock advice - particularly the advice he gives out on the fly during the call-in "Lightning Round" on his CNBC television show - but in aggregate, his investing principles are worth more than I'd venture to guess.
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-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
Edited by geokills (06/20/08 10:40 PM)
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2FiNiTe
ConsideratlyKilling Me



Registered: 06/12/06
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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills]
#7808131 - 12/28/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fuck the man, don't pay your bills! & sure the fuck don't get a "job" and support the oppression of your mind!
-------------------- "Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living." General Omar N. Bradley
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OneMoreRobot3021



Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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Re: GET RICH! [Re: 2FiNiTe]
#7808134 - 12/28/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
2FiNiTe said:

be a waste of life! don't contribute to anything! feed off others!
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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Leinahtan
The Cultivator



Registered: 04/05/07
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2FiNiTe
ConsideratlyKilling Me



Registered: 06/12/06
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Quote:
OneLessForeskin said:
Quote:
2FiNiTe said:

be a waste of life! don't contribute to anything! feed off others!
My thoughts exactly....oh wait
-------------------- "Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living." General Omar N. Bradley
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills] 1
#7808152 - 12/28/07 06:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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How much are you getting paid for this thread?
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2FiNiTe
ConsideratlyKilling Me



Registered: 06/12/06
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He's getting paid by the # of people who click those links.
-------------------- "Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living." General Omar N. Bradley
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era



Registered: 01/20/07
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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills]
#7808162 - 12/28/07 06:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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ira and 401k's?
investing for retirement isnt very usefull. some of us will never live that long. another thing - retirement ages are subject to change. you need the money to fruit NOW so you can reinvest it NOW in whatever you need to invest in NOW as opportunity is NOW not at age 7000.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: GET RICH! [Re: 2FiNiTe]
#7808172 - 12/28/07 06:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
2FiNiTe said: He's getting paid by the # of people who click those links.
he's making billions from shroomery supporter accounts
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era



Registered: 01/20/07
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yeah block this crap.
Jim Cramer and CNBC as whole should be avoided. We could be living in grass huts and they would still debate if we are in recession.
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Merkin
neep.



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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills]
#7808179 - 12/28/07 06:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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geo kills.
-------------------- Wheels of cheese wheeels of cheeeeese!!!
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geokills
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙


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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills] 1
#7808240 - 12/28/07 06:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> How much are you getting paid for this thread?
Considering I took about an hour to compose it, the opportunity cost actually lost me money. 
> He's getting paid by the # of people who click those links.
Not even. Those Amazon links are referral free, I just copy and pasted them from the search line at Amazon.com (go to your local bookstore if you're that concerned, you bum!). I provided them because I've read those books, and they done made me smartered.
> he's making billions from shroomery supporter accounts
If only! You know I have to share those profits with the other 4 directors? That cuts my share to the mere millions! 
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-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
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geokills
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙


Registered: 05/08/01
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Quote:
moon_glue said:
yeah block this crap.
Jim Cramer and CNBC as whole should be avoided. We could be living in grass huts and they would still debate if we are in recession.
You know it was your thread that inspired me to compose this post. 
Your post asking what you should do, resulted in my composition of the section on the Roth IRA. I figured, this is pretty fucking important information for everyone to understand IF they intend to make their life as easy as possible... and so here I threw it all into this thread instead. For someone who wants to encourage a "shroomerite investment circle", you sure aren't doing much to help encourage your fellow shroomerites to be financially responsible. Barring all the shameless promotion for Jim Cramer, I wouldn't be regurgitating this advice if I didn't truly believe that it works, and to an extent has already worked for me and many members of my family.
If you expect Social Security or a Pension to cover you through your retirement years, you're playing a very risky bet. I understand that Congress does have the power to manipulate these retirement accounts as well, and yes that is a realistic concern... but for the time being, these are the best financial vehicles we have at our disposal to help our money grow. So why NOT use them? How would you invest your money instead?
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-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
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Scarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills]
#7808269 - 12/28/07 06:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sounds like a sales pitch but geo is on the money with this one.
-------------------- -------------------- We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills]
#7808285 - 12/28/07 06:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
geokills said: If only! You know I have to share those profits with the other 4 directors? That cuts my share to the mere millions! 
as your agent I still expect my 30%
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Asante
Mage


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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills] 1
#7808292 - 12/28/07 06:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Geokills, thanks for taking the time for adding to the small number of investment threads with your personal advice, much of it I know to be good advice.
You know I'm unsure about the future of the dollar and the US economy in general, but that aside you gave balanced advice.
Life's about the here and now, but it's good to look towards the future. Especially for our younger members a little over time will go a long way.
I still think a Financial Strategies & Investment forum or subforum would be a nice addition to the Shroomery whole. A lot of shroomerites are dealing with debt, career choices, mortgage considerations and savings & investment thoughts that might find a place there, If it isn't viable we can close it up.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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YidakiMan
Stranger


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Re: GET RICH! [Re: Asante]
#7808328 - 12/28/07 07:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: I still think a Financial Strategies & Investment forum or subforum would be a nice addition to the Shroomery whole. A lot of shroomerites are dealing with debt, career choices, mortgage considerations and savings & investment thoughts that might find a place there, If it isn't viable we can close it up.
My father is finished with his second exam to become an CFA, certified financial analyst. So I'd like to add my vote for a "Money Matters" forum.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: GET RICH! [Re: Asante]
#7808336 - 12/28/07 07:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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One point I definetly agree with is compound interest. A lot of people underestimate how much money they will accrue due to compound interest.
If you put away about 1k a month starting at the age of 30, at 10% interest you'll have about 3.5 million saved by the time retirement comes at 65.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Liquidkick
H2O
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Re: GET RICH! [Re: geokills]
#7808388 - 12/28/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wow you are telling them to open an IRA, crazy..
I think the majority are not that old here on the forum. I didn't read the whole post but, more risk should be taken the younger you are.
edit: 22% eh? Ready to work for the hedge fund eh? EVERYONE SHOULD LOOK INTO DERIVATIVES!!!! MONEY BABY MONEY!
-LK
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Prisoner#1
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Re: GET RICH! [Re: badchad]
#7808408 - 12/28/07 07:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said: If you put away about 1k a month starting at the age of 30, at 10% interest
a grand a month is something most people only dream of putting back, the average wage in the US is at $17/hr, cant save it on that with bills and such, something a bit more realistic is $20/week, in a year it's a thousand, in 10 years it's a suitable amount to start investing and dont expect a 10% return if you wanna play safe
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