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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Strain that eats contams
    #780520 - 07/27/02 04:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

At least some contam types.

LOL, anybody ever seen a strain from what is a dirty wild foreign print that when innoc'ed into a jar of bird seed & sprouted along with gray, green & blue contams raced the comtams through the jar, colonized it faster than the contams, then started eating away at the remaining contams like hungery kids eating pizza?

The Raccoon always though, once you get a contam - or contams, shit can the jar. He was going to, then noticed the struggle going on inside & who was winning. He didnt think that was possible? Or, is this some kind of weird fluke?

The strain came from the Phillippines. The Raccoon also set some to plates & isolated some clean material from them.

SixTango


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: SixTango]
    #780649 - 07/27/02 06:07 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Here are pics of the jar. Myc raced the contams to the bottom & won. Then started on the contams & appears to be winning again? SixTango



This side of the jar looked the same as the other side not long ago.



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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineEvilGoat
Monkey Rangler

Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 15
Loc: Canada (East coast)
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: SixTango]
    #780687 - 07/27/02 06:28 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I've never seen it before but I've also never kept a a bad jar around long enough to notice.


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it only hurts for a second, now trun your head and cough.


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OfflineDinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 1,080
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: SixTango]
    #781489 - 07/28/02 07:58 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yep, it is documented...
Your completely correct, contamn = trashcan.
Staments suggests (strongly) not taking any chances too..
You probably know this, but I figure its worth some more mentions
Although there seem to be a few people who don't follow this train of thought, but it is known that mycelium can consume the mycelium of another fungi.. the concern is that the potentially dangerous toxins, etc in the other fungi could be taken up by the dominant mycelium and be consumed..



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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: DinoMyc]
    #781688 - 07/28/02 10:37 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Lets not fool ourselves. This probobly goes on a lot with some aggesive strains of P Cub.

We just don't get to see it in jars, because it happens on a very tiny scale -- not like the massive contam demostrated in the jar above.

Two examples come to mind. In a outdoor cow pie there has to be lots of contams present. The P.Cub myc in some instances gets established better & just eats it & takes over. Peaple consume wild P. Cub's off off cowpies w/o ill effect.

The other example is; say 3 or 4 contam spores end up in a freshly PC'd jar when you innoc it w/syringe. A multispore syringe is throwing multiples of thousands of P. Cub spores in also. Both types germinate. The P. Cub myc being there in larger number sometimes simply overwhelm the lesser foe.

Come on now, anybody who has done many multiples of jars of bird seed or grains has once in a while seen a little tiny tiny spot in the jar that looked a dubious color & wondered if it was a contam. Checking the next day, the P. Cub myc had overwhelmed whatever it was & the jar fully colonizes with Myc.

This un ID strain may just demonstate that quality on a more aggessive scale. Which is not all bad. I certainly would not use this jar to spawn any substrate.

However, If this myc fully colonizes this jar, I intend to open it & isolate a few colonized seeds on agar & see what happens there, just for the hell of it.

SixTango


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Offlinesurfinpimp22
newbie
Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 27
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: SixTango]
    #781893 - 07/28/02 12:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

it boggles my mind.... But i have a question. How you suppoes you get the cake out of that jar??


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Invisibleangryshroom
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,262
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: surfinpimp22]
    #781900 - 07/28/02 12:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Its grain silly, not a cake


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InvisibleDazedSol
old hand

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 1,230
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: DinoMyc]
    #782091 - 07/28/02 02:02 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Has there ever been any documented cases of people becomeing ill from mycelium overtaken contam. jars?


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Peace,
Adam


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: DazedSol]
    #782126 - 07/28/02 02:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I would bet it has happened, but there isnt much out there about the subject. Except what Stamets & a few others have written. He strongly advise against it. Simply because whatever the contam is (& we don't exactly know & they will vary) & it /they could turn out to be some nasty toxic shitzzz.

The reason I am following up on this is that it would be a good thing to find & develope a very contam resisant strain. But again, it could all turn to fecal matter if the strain takes on & retains crap from the contams it overcomes.

I would assume that, a tiny isolate taken from the jar (if it beats all the shit it is trying to?) & grown out on a plate & re/colonized on a fresh sterile batch of seed or grain would not contain a noticable amount of any toxins from the contaminated jar.

I would bet on that.

SixTango



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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: SixTango]
    #782230 - 07/28/02 03:20 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: ]
    #782327 - 07/28/02 04:07 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

First off, the print came from the Philippines. It was from a supposed P. Cub. Because it could be gathered from dung pies in cattle feilds & was said by local Pinoy's to make you laugh, giggle, cry, see colored lights, visions & ghosts.

The person who provided the print verified from his Pinay GF's experiance that it is a real tripper.

The same person had never made a print before. He acquired (bought) a few fairly fresh ones & the Raccoon told him to as cleanly as possible set a cap on swabbed tin foil w/glass jar over it & he ended up with a medocre light print. Which he folded up, store & provided later, when the Coon got there.

The Coon did not have time to look for any in the wild & gather myself, or he would have.

When the Coon got back, he went to agar with it & also made a small syringe. He has 7/10ths of the one print left.

The 1st agar culture showed comtamination in spots, so the Coon isolated some uncontaminated myc from that plate & grew more out that shows no contams.

At the same time as the Raccoon started the first agar plate, he innoc'ed the small syringe into a bird seed mix quart in the picture. Which speaks for itself on how badly the print was contam'ed.

Agar is easy fairly once you have the hang of it. Then slurry & innoc. But, your right. A transfer of a small amount to a clean bird seed jar is quicker. So, the Coon will do both.

The Coon has another jar going from the agar isolate. It is uncontaminated & going great guns. The object is to fruit the strain. Until then, who knows charicteristics, size, potency or anything? This might be a rizomatic popcorn fart shroom the Coon is working with .

Ya have to remember. The Coon is an ignorant relative newbie & just stretching his wings.

It would be neat if this one fly's. The fruits will tell the story.

SixTango



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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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InvisibleAlkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
Male

Registered: 11/16/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: DinoMyc]
    #783692 - 07/29/02 10:37 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I agree that caution is warranted if someone were to contemplate using this contamed jar for large scale grain to grain transfer. However, it should be pointed out that (as far as i know) there is still no evidence to suggest that the mycelium of one species will uptake/absorb the toxic primary or secondary metabolites of other organisms. There are documented studies of heavy metals being absorbed, but none that demonstrate aflatoxins, for example, being absorbed. Not to mention that complex molecules are generally radically altered by the enzymatic digestion of mushroom mycelia.
A nifty idea would be to take some kernels out (as Racoon has done) and leave the majority of the mycelium intact and then screen it for toxins. Most of the major toxins could be screened for in a mid level laboratory.
just my 02


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OfflineCaliChronic
member
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 111
Loc: Gulf Coast, USA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: SixTango]
    #786010 - 07/30/02 11:17 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

it depends what toxins are present and how the mycelium can break those toxins down. more research needs to be provided what toxins are present in which contams. if the mycelium overtakes the contam, will the toxins from that contam remain in the mycelium and/or fruitbodies or will it be absorbed and neutralized into harmless compounds?..................i still wouldnt advise anyone to eat shrooms growing with contams though.


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...
overgrow


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: CaliChronic]
    #786047 - 07/30/02 11:30 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

The Raccoon would not advise it either. In this instance, the Coon is just tinkering because it is interesting. It is the strain & what results as fruit is what the Coon wants to know. The jar coloinzed (fully) with Myc. Except it is a very very very very slight blue now. Almost like bruising. The Coon is just going to wait & watch the jar, to see it any other changes occur.

All the while, growing out the strain from a clean culture & waitng to see how it progress's & fruits, (hopefully).

SixTango (Always wondering & tinkering)


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Offlinetchyted
miestro
Registered: 09/03/01
Posts: 526
Loc: WA near seattle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: SixTango]
    #788628 - 07/31/02 04:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

in my labors with various species of mushroom, i have often noted the curius battles between molds and mushrooms. it seems taht there are certain species of mold that are almost as good as food to mushrooms, while others make it exactly the other way around. for example, most cubensis strains are capable of overpowering lipstick mold under good conditions. on the other hand, my house seems to be a host for a specie that will live autonomously with the mushroom mycelium untill after the second flush, whereupon it overtakes and consumes the desired mycelium.

what i'd like to see you do is take a long thin tube and inject a few drops of bleach into the contamned areas. i have been known to do this on cakes.

as i understand it, the toxic molds are generally toxic when they are sporulating. the reccomendation to throw out any jar with even a speck of mold in it would apply to those growers who are adverse to using any chemicals like H2O2 or bleach. Stamets is known for his organicly grown mushrooms. i recognize the need to use caution with toxic molds, as there are several species that grow rampantly where i live, but i'm not going to panic over a little penicilin or trich.


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
Posts: 2,678
Loc: Alba
Re: Strain that eats contams [Re: SixTango]
    #789105 - 07/31/02 07:44 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

hmm, even if the mycelium eventually takes over the highly sporulated mouldy bits, I'm willing to bet that the spores will remain intact, at least some of them anyway. So if or when you use the jar as spawn you're bound to get a mould extravaganza going on.


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hmmm........


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