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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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If Islamic extremists take over the world, this is how you will have to learn the unholy Quran.

Pot smokers get the death penalty and there's no bail. There's usually no heat or air conditioning in the prisons and they torture you worse than the Nazis and Japanese during WWII.
Pakistan has the bomb, too.
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Minstrel
Man of Science


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: Luddite]
#7804448 - 12/27/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh shit! This is the kind of thing that can catalyze the end of the world.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: Minstrel]
#7804466 - 12/27/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Shouldn't you be hiding behind the insignificance of your country about now?
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xFrockx



Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: zappaisgod]
#7804551 - 12/27/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Damnit, why this, why now. Just after we get done with our fantasies about attacking Iran, Pakistan is about to destabilize. Fuck me. I watched her interview on CNN the other day, and I just remember thinking "Oh, I wonder when she'll be killed and we'll go to war" Gah, fuck war. Violence will only breed violence.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: xFrockx]
#7804584 - 12/27/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: Violence will only breed violence.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said: Pakistan is tottaly screwed now
not to mention america...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: Annapurna1]
#7805490 - 12/27/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Annapurna1 said: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/12/does_bhuttos_death_give_rudy.html
giuliani is already all over this...and while its still too early for me to say "i told you so"..a US fascist dictatorship under giuliani is now all the more likely..if not a foregone conclusion...
here we go again....ok, Anna, please tell us how Bhutto being assassinated now guarantees 1) that giuliani wins and 2) that he'll turn the US fascist?
it's just a ridiculous statement.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: afoaf]
#7805625 - 12/27/07 09:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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as usual..you didnt bother to read the post before you CPed it...nowhere does it say that giuliani is "guarenteed" to win...but if giuliani does win (and thats not a big "if")..then he is guarenteed to turn the US into a fascist state..as even ppl who arent liberal nutjobs will tell you ..
http://www.amconmag.com/2008/2008_01_14/article1.html
Quote:
January 14, 2008 Issue Copyright © 2007 The American Conservative
Authoritarian Temptation
Can we trust the the presidency to a mayor like Giuliani?
by Glenn Greenwald
One of the most under-discussed aspects of Rudy Giuliani’s quest for the presidency is how politically shrewd he is. Giuliani was elected mayor of one of the great bastions of American liberalism despite being a former Reagan DOJ official and Republican prosecutor renowned for his merciless, at times humiliating, treatment of criminal defendants. And after four years of living under his rule, New Yorkers re-elected Giuliani in a landslide victory against an icon of traditional Big Apple liberalism, Manhattan borough president Ruth Messinger.
Giuliani never disguised himself. While his moderate stances on social issues distinguished him from the Jerry Falwell wing of the 1993 Republican Party, he never pretended to be anything other than what he was. He was not a popular mayor because he softened his prosecutorial zeal or concealed his fixation with imposing order or renounced his faith in centralized power vested in a single, strong, even unchallengeable leader.
Quite the contrary. But New Yorkers, including hordes of traditional Democrats and even Manhattan liberals, were grateful for Giuliani’s rule and overwhelmingly re-elected him, precisely because he so aggressively wielded government power. At least for the first several years of his tenure, even the Left cheered as he defended and encouraged his police department’s excesses, casually disregarded long-standing limits on mayoral power, crushed seemingly immovable bureaucracies, took control away from the most sacrosanct municipal fiefdoms, and forced the city’s powerful unions and political factions into submission.
But the very characteristics that made Giuliani (for his first term) such a popular and effective mayor render him spectacularly unfit to be president. In many senses, the city that Giuliani inherited in 1993, languishing in chaos and craving order, is the antithesis of the United States of 2008, plagued by previously unthinkable abuses of executive power.
New York City in the mid-1990s presented an authoritarian mayor with the ultimate challenge: impose order on a city that was widely assumed to be ungovernable. But America in 2008 presents an authoritarian president with the ultimate fantasy: the ability to wield more power than any other human being in the world, with the fewest real limits in modern American history.
As constrained as a mayor’s power typically is, Giuliani never ceased pushing those limits. In a 2001 retrospective on the mayor’s tenure, the New York Times concluded, “the suppression of dissent or of anything that irked the mayor, became a familiar theme.” Giuliani’s idiosyncratic—one could say Orwellian—understanding of “freedom,” expressed during a 1994 speech, reveals just how literally authoritarian his worldview is:
Quote:
What we don’t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.
By the nature of the office, even the most excessively secretive, grudge-harboring authoritarian in charge of a municipality can only do so much damage. But the dangers posed by allowing such an individual to rule the most powerful nation on earth are boundless. And those general risks are greatly enhanced after eight long years of unprecedented expansions of government power and systematic erosions of virtually every check on executive authority.
A President Giuliani would inherit an office bestowed with such dark powers as indefinite detention, interrogation methods widely considered to be torture, vast warrantless surveillance authority, and an impenetrable wall of secrecy secured by multiple executive and judicial instruments. Set all of that next to a submissive and impotent Congress and an equally supine media—to say nothing of the prospect of another terrorist attack to exacerbate every one of those factors—and it is hard to imagine a more toxic combination than Rudy Giuliani and the Oval Office.
Our political landscape has now tilted so heavily in favor of unchecked presidential prerogatives that even a lame duck, wildly unpopular, and universally discredited George W. Bush is rarely denied what he wants. With this framework now bolted in place, a newly elected, shrewd, and inherently aggressive Giuliani, whose certainty about his own rightness is matched only by his contempt for those who disagree, could easily run roughshod over any attempts to constrain his actions.
The Sept. 11 transformation of Giuliani into the swaggering, beloved “America’s Mayor” has erased from the collective memory just how severely his bullying ways had overstayed their welcome in New York. Giuliani was widely disliked by 1999, when his approval ratings dropped to a Bush-like 37 percent. At the root of New Yorkers’ discontent with Giuliani was his complete intolerance for any limits on his own power and contempt for dissent from his decisions. Giuliani claimed the mantle of The Decider long before George W. Bush crowned himself.
The longer he stayed in office, the more drooling Giuliani’s thirst for power seemed to become. Popular first-term efforts to crack down on menacing squeegee men and turnstile-jumpers morphed into senseless, vindictive second-term crusades against hot dog vendors and jaywalkers.
In 1999, Giuliani sought amendments to the City Charter that would have eliminated term limits and allowed him to remain in power indefinitely, just as leftist authoritarian Hugo Chavez recently attempted to achieve with Venezuela‘s Constitution. Giuliani tried again shortly after the 9/11 attack, invoking the crisis to suggest that his term be extended.
Whenever he found a crusade that triggered his sense of righteousness, legal and even constitutional constraints were of little concern to the mayor. He ended up on the losing end of one court battle after the next, arising from his efforts to stifle private expression that he disliked, including endless campaigns against an art exhibit he deemed blasphemous, bus and subway advertisements he considered offensive, and political protests he found annoying. According to Rachel Morris‘s recent article in The Washington Monthly, Giuliani “lost thirty-five First Amendment cases in court.”
New York is governed by a “strong mayor” system in which the City Council has very little power. But throughout his tenure, Giuliani viewed even isolated attempts by the council to “interfere in” his governance to be contemptible nuisances. He frequently waged war with city agencies whose task was to exercise oversight of the mayor’s office, and he initiated numerous battles designed to amend long-standing City Charter provisions with the goal of increasing his own power. He demands absolute loyalty from underlings, and, in return, retains and rewards even the most inept and corrupt loyalists.
Perhaps most disturbing of all when considering his presidential ambitions, Giuliani seemed to take particular delight in intervening in and inflaming the city’s most intense controversies arising out of excessive assertions of state authority. Some of the most turbulent scandals he faced involved the racially charged, highly dubious use of violence by the NYPD. His paramount instinct was to defend the police reflexively, even before any relevant facts were known.
Almost uniformly, Giuliani’s presidential campaign has been measured and highly disciplined, but he has had momentary lapses that expose the authoritarian impulses that New Yorkers know so well. In the midst of the September controversy over the MoveOn.org ad criticizing Gen. David Petraeus, Giuliani opined that the antiwar group “passed a line that we should not allow American political organizations to pass.”
Exactly as one would expect, Giuliani has enthusiastically endorsed virtually every one of the most controversial Bush/Cheney assertions of presidential power. He wants to keep Guantanamo open and mocks concerns over the use of torture, even derisively comparing sleep deprivation to the strain of his own campaign. He not only defends Bush’s warrantless surveillance, but does not recognize the legitimacy of any concerns relating to unchecked government power.
In April, Cato Institute’s president, Ed Crane, asked several candidates if they believed the president should have the authority to arrest U.S. citizens, on U.S. soil, and detain them with no review of any kind. National Review’s Ramesh Ponnuru reported Giuliani’s response: “The mayor said that he would want to use this authority infrequently.”
In aggressively rejecting that such a power could exist, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote, “The very core of liberty secured by our Anglo-Saxon system of separated powers has been freedom from indefinite imprisonment at the will of the Executive.” Yet Giuliani’s instinct was to assume that he would automatically possess that tyrannical power.
At a campaign event in New Hampshire a week later, Giuliani suggested that the president would even have what he called “inherent authority” to disregard a Congressional vote to defund the war in Iraq and could continue to prosecute it unilaterally. Not even the most radical of the Bush theorists of presidential omnipotence would endorse such an idea. In a February New York Times op-ed, former Bush DOJ attorney John Yoo acknowledged, “Congress has every power to end the war—if it really wanted to. It has the power of the purse.”
Giuliani, when he was merely in charge of New York’s garbage collection, zoning rules, and a municipal police force, developed a reputation as a power-hungry, dissent-intolerant authoritarian, obsessed with secrecy and expanding his own power. It takes little imagination to apprehend the grave dangers from vesting in such a person virtually unlimited power to control the world’s most powerful military as well as a sprawling, federal bureaucracy.
note il duces' "freedom is slavery" quote in the middle of the link...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
Edited by Annapurna1 (12/28/07 10:52 AM)
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xFrockx



Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: Annapurna1]
#7807071 - 12/28/07 10:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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If half of that is true I fear for my future in America.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: Annapurna1]
#7807264 - 12/28/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Don't worry Rudy will not be nominated.
The SOUTH determines the Republican nomination! not the northeast....(thank god)
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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even if giuliani isnt inevitable yet..doesnt mean its nothing to worry about either...
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Phew, I'm sure glad we've been pouring money into this nest of psychos.
Lonestar nailed it: how ridiculously sane must Indians feel?
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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BrAiN
Art Fag


Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: zappaisgod]
#7808928 - 12/28/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Just. Fucking. Kill. Them. By any means necessary.
It would be nice if another country like Pakistan got off their LAZY ASSES and did it instead of America having to do all the work.
What the fuck is it going to take for Musharraf to actually DO something?
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RosettaStoned
Stranger


Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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A darling western agent killed trying to meddle in the affairs of a sovereign nation. She knew the risk of her actions. I must admit she had huge balls for a woman, that or she wasn't allowed to refuse the assignment.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
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Agent? Huh?
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RosettaStoned
Stranger


Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: Redstorm]
#7810191 - 12/29/07 10:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but...
1) She hasn't lived in pakistan for 8 years. 2) She moves back just in time to be touted by western media as the "voice of democracy" and "tough on al qaeda"
No one can deny she was a western media darling, they portrayed her as the saving grace of their country. That we would do that for someone who hasn't even lived there in 8 years sends off red flags. Then top it off with her death being immediately blamed on our favorite bogymen.
Their current president evidently wasn't being a good little stooge so this woman was sent back to show him he is expendable. She had nothing but enemies in that country among those with power. Musharraf's camp hated her, the old taliban hated her, those posing as al qaeda hated her. Hell she even claimed bin laden was dead thus attacking the US most favorite scare tactic.
With so many possible enemies it's no surprise she is dead. But having western media anointing you as savior has to be the greatest tell-all sign. Even if she wasn't an agent any arab who knew of this would suspect her. They don't trust our propaganda any more than we trust al-jazeera.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: BrAiN]
#7810315 - 12/29/07 11:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
BrAiN said: What the fuck is it going to take for Musharraf to actually DO something?
If a person who did try to do something just got assassinated, how brave do you think you'd be?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
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She hasn't been in Pakistan for that long because she had been exiled.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bhutto Assasinated [Re: Redstorm]
#7810733 - 12/29/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I must have missed the alleged media coronation. Every time they mentioned her regime they spoke about the corruption. The NY Times liked her better than Musharraf but they still held their nose doing it.
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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They sent her over because Musharaff is fast losing any credibility, he's under siege by extremists in Waziristan and by his own supreme court judge and his own people, Bhutto was brought in to rectify the situation and bring credibility to the government.
Failure to reign in on Fazlullah and his militants and Al Qaeda will result in a Pandoras Box of shit to open, They have already occupied a great deal of the Swat valley and are pushing on to Islamabad. Musharaff has failed to stop these militants...
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