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Offlineeve69
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Dope - Karma
    #7800403 - 12/26/07 09:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So I have been thinking. People take drugs in a mind that they live in a vacuum, free of karma, or connection to all that is. However, then they take drugs to get some connection to feel more in tune and alive. But then they feel sardonic about their connections and over mentalize and come away feeling bad. And I am suggesting that drugs are not just drugs but the karma of their production. One cannot take a drug which is separate from all the actions which went into its creation. Just a thought.

Sure, some come away from drug experiences feeling good sometimes too. Let's say that there's a 'grace' period before one becomes a proponent of the karma of the drugs lineage.


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OfflineFrost
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7800411 - 12/26/07 09:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

what


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I've been knocking from the inside.” - Rumi

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OfflineAJ4U Happy Birthday!
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: Frost]
    #7800450 - 12/26/07 09:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

huh


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Offlinefantastical
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7800470 - 12/26/07 09:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Umm set and setting maybe. Or if your allready fucked up maybe taking a drug will give u a negative experience.
I am pretty fucking sure that if I smoked some afghani hash that was made by the taliban I would feel just as happy as if it was hash made by a friend....maybe the talibans hash is better. It is still the same drug, the only people to blame for the "karma" bullshit of drugs is the lawmakers who allow the criminals a way to raise funds by selling drugs.
Oh and that goes for all drugs, not just hash.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: fantastical]
    #7800604 - 12/26/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

...not if the people supplying the drug are running whores, guns, murdering and so on...


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7800609 - 12/26/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

...then even if just consuming one is tacitly involved with supporting that moral system of breakdown and corruption...

My original point wasn't meant to be moral because I thought the karmic issues were obvious. My original point was do people think that it can effect the 'high?'


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OfflineHelpme1
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7800632 - 12/26/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

talk about logical fallacy, shit....
No, it ISNT going to alter the high, and you will never run into anyone saying otherwise.

Think about it, Mushrooms....they are shrooms, you picked them yourself, and you end up having a shitty trip (its all likely). Are you going to tell me that the shrooms were grown out of blood? Or were they picked off of an indian burial ground?

Now lets take cocaine, the Bolivian drug lords make people slave for the coca fields, and will kill you if you don't make enough product, on top of that if you tried revolting or running away, they would easily just kill your family. There are wars going on over this issue btw. Oh and on top of that, once the final product gets shipped to florida or wherever it is going, there will undoubtedley be gang violence over the drug.

And you expect the cocaine to.....not make you feel good? it is still gonna get you as high as the day it was made, regardless of who made it or HOW it was made. AND it is highly unlikely you are going to have a "Bad Trip" so to speak, on cocaine, whereas a mushroom bad trip is likely.


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OfflineNess1
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: Helpme1]
    #7800872 - 12/26/07 01:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Heroin is heroin, LSD is LSD, meth is meth and so on. For example, there are people who can use heroin through their entire lives and never become addicted. There are people who are hopelessly addicted, yet lead perfectly normal, productive lives.


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I know what they'll find, it's in their mind, it's what they want to see. Spare me from the light, here comes the night and here I'll stay, waiting for darkness.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7801004 - 12/26/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What about other things we consume? Food? Water? If an orange is produced using methods that create lots of pain and suffering, but I don't know that, and there's no way for me to know that, am I then going to get food poisoning and die? No, probably not. Most likely, I'll just enjoy the orange.

However, your point that as consumers of ANYTHING, we need to be aware and conscious of what it is that we are supporting with our money and energy, is well taken.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: dblaney]
    #7801322 - 12/26/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Weak sauce...

Plants don't exude karmatic justice on their users.

I contend Karma is a principle adhered to primarily by people who would hope that actions carry ethical consequence under all circumstances. This isn't the case.


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Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7801452 - 12/26/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Wrong forum.


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Offlinefantastical
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: fapjack]
    #7801498 - 12/26/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I can't say that I really believe in karma, good things happen to bad people all the time. Assholes get laid more than nice guys for example. Overall just a silly topic. What about the clothes made by child labourors, maybe they wont keep me warm?
Hahahaha!


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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: fantastical]
    #7801654 - 12/26/07 06:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i think that grace period is extremely different for everyone dependin on their circumstances

all the arguements against it look pretty selfish as well

when you take drugs youre "alive" cause part of you is dead,
ever wonder why you feel so "alive" when your on a roller coaster you were scared shitless of minutes before?

what goes around comes around and right back around

simple physics people


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OfflineNess1
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: Konyap]
    #7801718 - 12/26/07 07:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

^I always love rollercoasters and am NEVER "scared shitless" or scared at all. Like I said, people have lived virtually their whole lives hopelessly addicted to, say, heroin and lead perfectly normal lives.


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I know what they'll find, it's in their mind, it's what they want to see. Spare me from the light, here comes the night and here I'll stay, waiting for darkness.


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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7801804 - 12/26/07 07:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

not really sure what you mean...

but I take drugs because they make me feel good. And theres nothing wrong with that.


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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: moses]
    #7802074 - 12/26/07 09:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i know but there are people who need drugs to feel good and thats the problem

and i didnt stop blazinfor that reason either cuz it def made me feel good, but as skitzed as i am i pretty much get worse cuz i get better at manipulating

object in motion stays in motion with the smae speed but slowed down


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Offlineorigami.octopus
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7802321 - 12/26/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
People take drugs in a mind that they live in a vacuum, free of karma, or connection to all that is.

However, then they take drugs to get some connection to feel more in tune and alive. But then they feel sardonic about their connections and over mentalize and come away feeling bad.
[....]
One cannot take a drug which is separate from all the actions which went into its creation. Just a thought.





okay. i agree with some of that. Where the drug comes from and what you are supporting by using it could have karma. However, from what i understand karma is really just a reflection of the energy you put into the world. So by that, any drugs used with the wrong intentions would have bad karma?

On a different point, i for one, do not believe that i live in a vacuum separate from existence. Quite to the contrary actually. Mushrooms can make you much much more aware of the interconnectedness of everything. The pervasive feeling of being one with existance is phenomenal, but can be noted/experienced without mind altering substances.

"But then they feel sardonic about their connections and over mentalize and come away feeling bad."

this has happened to me before, and once i came to the conclusion that perhaps you can realize somewhat fundamental truths of existence. All matter is energy right?


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I like to look at mushrooms the way most people like to look at flowers.

this is an amazing game
http://www.kongregate.com/games/customlogic/sprout


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OfflineOrbital_Saucer
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: origami.octopus]
    #7802570 - 12/27/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

origami.octopus said:
All matter is energy right?




Only on Tuesdays.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: Orbital_Saucer]
    #7803010 - 12/27/07 06:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Like let's take heroin and coke. Both are used to enslave people. Thus the high is not separate from becoming enslaved. I heard the story above about someone using heroin their whole life and not becoming addicted. That was sort of a contradiction in point, but if it makes someone feel warm and fuzzy to believe that then okay, whatever.

LSD at first was experimental and given freely and it freed the mind. Now it is generally only sold, and many people have gone to prison and it is misrepresented, and so on, so now LSD has some bad karma attached to it. You never hear about the trips like it used to be, with people laughing uninteruptedly until their entire face hurt like hell. Not anymore.

Well, karma means action. And drugs have various actions. So in this definition I am not wrong. Heroin has the action of enslaving which is why it's used to maintain prostitutes in whorehouses.

I have a friend who uses heroin and is not addicted too. One night he was snorting heroin and xanax and he got into a fight with his wife and he tried to get his shotgun to kill her and his two boys, but he was too fucked up to load it. Yeah, I know, bummer, could never happen to me, um hmm.

Okay like this, back when people started doing coke they shared and it was a fun thing right? But then as coke became used to fund the Contras and other covert wars, and crack gained a hold on the street coke no longer was so fun anymore.

A medicine is in its action. For instance, Vioxx. At first people were quite gung ho about it. Then not so much enthusiasm. Then finally dismay, and take at your own risk. Then risk of death, over a mere NSAID. Thus the action of the pill takes on new meaning.

Octi said that karma is ones actions reflected back at one. But what is the medium for that reflection? Well, things as are, I guess.

So when one is young and innocent they have an innocent drug experience but when they are older and world wise they have a world wise drug experience, unless they are still innocent in which case they still have innocent drug experiences. The quality of ones high is determined through ones innocence or worldliness. Which is mirroed in their drug of choice and its actions.

Which cannot be separated from the actions which went to produced it. Especially when one knows what they are. For instance when you know that heroin is used to fund war and keep slaves then heroin is not such a happy drug is it? Not many happy heroin addicts I have met out there. In fact, not a single one.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7803018 - 12/27/07 06:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't mean to be so down on heroin. It's just an easy candidate to use for my illustration. Let's take a positive approach. Say with Peruvian Torch. It has virtually no bad karma attached. And there's not much bad about it that anyone can say.

Shrooms, not much bad karma attached. In these cases, not so much bad karma through production methods, use, or action of drug, also, not so much through moral inference. The point is that also one is not enslaved to them, and so on.

I guess it's a circular thing. But it could happen on an upward spiralling note as well. If some drug produced hugely moral and spiritual benefits then its production would be really good karma and the moral reflection would be positive.

I guess I am just asking if people think consequences of some drug's use are separate from what goes into its production, purchase, and so on.

I mean, pot doesn't lead one to lock themself in a bathroom and go at it alone. Pot is a drug of amazing complexity and beauty, like a fine wine. It draws people together. It takes huge knowledge and committment to create fine strains, and so on. It's a drug of depth, and that reflect, insociety and in the user. Narcotic action aside.


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7803186 - 12/27/07 08:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think you are deluding yourself.

"LSD at first was experimental and given freely and it freed the mind. Now it is generally only sold, and many people have gone to prison and it is misrepresented, and so on, so now LSD has some bad karma attached to it. You never hear about the trips like it used to be, with people laughing uninteruptedly until their entire face hurt like hell. Not anymore."

"Okay like this, back when people started doing coke they shared and it was a fun thing right? But then as coke became used to fund the Contras and other covert wars, and crack gained a hold on the street coke no longer was so fun anymore."


People had just as many bad trips in the 60's as they do now adays.
What do you mean you never hear about people laughing when they trip anymore?
The chemical is a chemical.
Coke is just as fun weather it came from Dave the pharmacist hippie in the 60's, or A psociopathic criminal. The only difference might be if you knew exactly where it was coming from, as it might fuck with your mindset going into the experience.

You are looking for a reason why your own experiences turned bad. It was because you had no self control.

"I mean, pot doesn't lead one to lock themself in a bathroom and go at it alone"

Your own drug experiences do not reflect everyones. I'v known plenty of potheads, who acted almost like crack fiends for weed.
If you don't think there is a historical "bad karma" attached to the weed experience, do you know how many people get murdered, and robbed over some weed?
A lot. A black market is a black market.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: Dreamer987]
    #7803311 - 12/27/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You are looking for a reason why your own experiences turned bad. It was because you had no self control.




That's rather presumptious. You don't know me.


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7803607 - 12/27/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yea, i just figured i should give you a hard time since you came into my thread, and trashed my trip report like an ass.

I hope the peruvian torch spirits treat you well. Get them while you can.
I'm gonna start up a black market cactus ring to enslave child prostitutes. Might hurt the karmic balance next time you make some tea brah.

And how about those Jewish people driving German cars.
What the Cock is that Shit?


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7803652 - 12/27/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

so what your saying is:
mushrooms= good trips because demand hasn't gotten big enough to bring in violent black market practices, thus tainting the "karmic balance of the high"

lsd= bad trips because it got into the hands of organized crime, and a lot of people went to prison because of it?

Anyone that says they use heroin for years without addiction is a liar?

It seems living is a lose lose situation this day and age. What with my ancestors being slave owners, and all my drugs being tainted with the blood of babies.

Don't you wish everything was like in the 60's? You could get high all day long, and jam to the dead like some kind of crazy diamond, and never have a bummer. Everyone was so much better back than.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: Dreamer987]
    #7804109 - 12/27/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah sorry dude this doesn't make any sense.

The responsible use of drugs always has been and always will be the user's responsibility. They aren't for everybody, if you had bad experiences and are clean now that's good that you realized your personality just wasn't made for ingesting substances.

Your LSD ideas don't make sense at all. In fact, for a synthetic drug LSD has very good "karma," as it has such a small market that people often make it out of sheer good will, considering MDMA can be produced for a much higher profit.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: g00ru]
    #7804198 - 12/27/07 02:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I wish stuff was still like in the Sixties.  Strange? There was only half of the world's present population then. the world was therefore twice as large and stuff was still to discover. Now the only thing to discover is how low to the bottom. Sorry for trashing trip reports, I'm sure it hurt them alot :frown:


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OfflineNess1
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: g00ru]
    #7804201 - 12/27/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Just because drugs screwed you doesn't mean it's because the drugs were tainted with bad karma. Guess who's fault it is that you ruined your life with drugs? YOURS. It was YOUR responsibility to limit your use and watch yourself. You're trying to pass the blame on to the manufacturers tainting your product. It doesn't work like that. If there was any bad karma attached to your drug use, it came from your irresponsible use.


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I know what they'll find, it's in their mind, it's what they want to see. Spare me from the light, here comes the night and here I'll stay, waiting for darkness.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: Ness1]
    #7804278 - 12/27/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I guess you're talking to me. I have been really fortunate actually. I have lost nothing through drug use save some thousands and thousands of dollars. I'm lucky that's the only real price I payed, well, that and fucking up some jobs. But otherwise I got off lucky.

I was just tossing around an idea. I understand why the hardest off wouldn't like it. Defensiveness shows weakness. However, others who have a conscience and who abhor such things as slavery, sex trade, child abuse, war, and so on I would think might see something in the idea.

As for Jews driving German cars. Well, I don't guess all Germans were Nazis, and also Nazis are not running things any more. I suppose if all Germans were Nazis then that would make German Jews also Nazis.

As for cars having bad karma, take a look and see. The smog ain't gettin and better and it's not going anywhere. I can't remember the last time in the city that I smelled actual air.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7804291 - 12/27/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well it'll all be over in 2012 anyways so theres no use worrying about anything.

PEWPEWMAYANSPACESHIPS


--------------------
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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineNess1
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7804296 - 12/27/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, the idea of karma is nice. But it just doesn't work that way.


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I know what they'll find, it's in their mind, it's what they want to see. Spare me from the light, here comes the night and here I'll stay, waiting for darkness.


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: eve69]
    #7804498 - 12/27/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlineeve69
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Re: Dope - Karma [Re: Dreamer987]
    #7804651 - 12/27/07 04:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

what is he on?


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