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InvisibleCrake
Stranger


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 194
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: thedefone]
    #7802430 - 12/26/07 11:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

thedefone said:
Quote:

So do you think that by using white rice flour instead, mycologists could legally grow cubes becuase they are INACTIVE?




Quote:

This could be extremely useful in cultivation of supposedly illicit specimens! This is a clearly exploitable loop hole in US law. This must be further examined. This allows experimentation free of law interference. Most people might not care or see how this could be useful... I can't believe I didn't see this before."




First of all... why?

Secondly,  while the psilocybin and psilocin are illegal, so are the mushrooms that produce those chemicals.  It is illegal to grow psilocybin producing mushrooms, even if they do a poor job of it.

Quote:

Experimenting is good, but re-inventing the square wheel is not good. I'd suggest using proved substrates, or look for better substrates, but not those that are already proved to be inferior.




I agree.  Why waste the time? This was just one of the dozens of threads out there about white in place of brown.  You should spend the extra time finding Brown rice because of the billions of threads promoting its use.





I've waited so long to say this to you... yes, only you who totes it like a god given power... YOU ARE WRONG.

You said this,

  "Secondly,  while the psilocybin and psilocin are illegal, so are the mushrooms that produce those chemicals.  It is illegal to grow psilocybin producing mushrooms, even if they do a poor job of it,"

Yeah, that is wrong. Why is it, oh bestower of true knowledge that the very seed of these horrible little nasties we call shrooms are legal? They lack the illegal CHEMICALS. No illicit chems, no law broken. So, if the shrooms lack the illicit item, they are no longer illegal. Why in the world I had to break THAT down is well and beyond me... If you can reduce the amount of psilocybin and psilocin to an unmeasurable level, why couldn't you isolate it back, or BEYOND where it was to begin with. Media directly affects the levels of the illegal substances produced in these species, we now know this. Knowledge gained for the better good. Now before you go and attack something which does not fit well within your very small little worldly outlook, do us ALL a favor and say something PRODUCTIVE for a change and START THINKING BEFORE YOU TYPE.

NEXT!!!!!:mad2::eek::blush:


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.


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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: Crake]
    #7802480 - 12/26/07 11:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Not to criticize your point, because I understand what you are saying, but I have a hard time believing that you can grow cubensis that would contain absolutely no measurable amount of psilocybin. Very small amounts, sure; but I dunno about none whatsoever.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisibleCrake
Stranger


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 194
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #7802504 - 12/26/07 11:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It takes an open mind and willingness to apply oneself... This is defiantly not so haughty a task that it is impossible. The tone in your doubt tells me it is not possible for YOU, don't speak on behalf of anyone else in this matter. It can be done.

:doggull:


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.


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InvisibleCrake
Stranger


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 194
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: Crake]
    #7802518 - 12/26/07 11:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I apologise for my tone. I feel very defensive about this topic because it is so OPEN. It's disagreeable, outrageous and debatable. And yet I believe that through careful dedication if one so chose to accomplish this, one in fact could. Please don't sell yourselves short. OPEN YOUR MINDS!


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.


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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #7802519 - 12/26/07 11:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I guess I'm not quite sure why someone would want to go to great lengths to grow cubensis with no psilocybin. Most of us grow them for the opposite reason;).

I suppose anything is possible, but I still think that any cubensis that has enough nutrients to grow, will have enough nutrients to produce at least a tiny amount of psilocybin.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisibleCrake
Stranger


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 194
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #7802534 - 12/26/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The point I'm trying to make is that a simple change in the diet here restricts the output of specific chemicals in the fungus yet still allows for growth. When the dreadful day DOES COME (because I know it IS coming) this is the only way we'll be able to still meddle LEGALLY with this species bar having to relocate ourselves with family in tow to a foreign country for the civil liberties enough to still PURSUE HAPPINESS. This is becoming harder under the good lady Liberties watch. I think it's critical that we use longevity here.

:doggull:

FREEDOM THROUGH GENETIC ENGINEERING!


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.


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Invisibledumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: whereismymind]
    #7803301 - 12/27/07 09:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It doesn't carry as much nutrients....little to no nutrition using brown rice...trust me...no need to try whats already been done.


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: dumbfounded1600]
    #7804049 - 12/27/07 01:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

First of all. I never said anything that wasn't true. In the references below it is clearly stated that fresh and/or dry mushrooms are considered containers of the illegal chemicals psilocybin and psilocin. I should also point out the laws in many states that ban counterfeit products when offered for sale (a judgement left to our fine courts, no doubt). For example, baking soda as cocaine, oregano as marijuana, and plain paper as blotter acid.

Wikipedia
Erowid
Erowid

Furthermore, I defy you to grow a cubensis mushroom or any other psilocybin genera mushroom that is completely devoid of psilocybin or psilocin. Maybe, like you said, if one so tried to accomplish this, then one in fact could. But that only brings up my first question. Why? There are plenty of other more challenging, more palatable mushrooms out there to cultivate, that growing inactive cubes (a feat generally considered failure) seems like a fool's errand. If you want to do so, go ahead. Just don't expect many to follow you.

Lastly.. While I appreciate the personal attacks, they really don't have anything to do with the advice I was giving...

Quote:

you who totes it like a god given power



Quote:

oh bestower of true knowledge



Quote:

Now before you go and attack something which does not fit well within your very small little worldly outlook, do us ALL a favor and say something PRODUCTIVE for a change and START THINKING BEFORE YOU TYPE.



Aww, that was sweet. And totally unproductive. I don't sell myself short when I tell someone to use brown rice flour instead of white rice flour, or minute rice, or Uncle Ben's. BRF has a proven history of producing potent mushrooms... something I think he's shooting for. And I sure as hell don't sell myself short when I try to dissuade someone from doing something that will have a negative impact on their goal. If you want to attack me because I don't understand why in blue blazes someone would WANT to grow inactive cubes, then go ahead. If you want to criticize the advice I give, feel free... but be sure that you're right. And finally, before you accuse me of being closed-minded and having a small world-view, maybe you should take a long, hard look at yourself, and examine how you may let your beliefs, values and opinions (whatever they may be) cloud your judgement.


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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Offlinesomestupidnewbie
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 160
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: Crake]
    #7804395 - 12/27/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hate to tell you, but no, you are incorrect. Cubensis mushrooms themselves are illegal to grow. Regardless of potency. Yes, the spores are legal. So are prepackaged marijuana seeds. Grow either one of them, and get busted... they won't care that it is "inactive".

You, yourself, will be "inactive" for a year or two. I understand what you are trying to say, and I do see the logic behind it. However, you must comprehend what we are dealing with here... since when was the law ever affected by logic?


--------------------


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OfflineNibin
Getting there
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: somestupidnewbie]
    #7804622 - 12/27/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Until someone quotes the actual legal text that legislates this matter, the discussion will not be over and I myself at least will consider that everyone is just giving their opinions and will not believe anyone.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: Nibin]
    #7804955 - 12/27/07 06:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Per Wikipedia:

Quote:

In the United States only the psychoactive compounds (see above) are scheduled under federal law.




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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7805224 - 12/27/07 07:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You asked, I delivered...

Quote:

Hallucinogenic substances. Any material, compound, mixture or preparation which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, their salts, isomers and salts of isomers, unless specifically excepted, whenever the existence of these salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation




This is an example of the language used in Idaho's Uniform Controlled Substances Act This language, in particular, is recurrent throughout many states drug laws when dealing with the scheduling and classification of controlled substances. The states must have adopted this language in order to get their hands on federal money. Well, that quote leads me to my next reference...

Florida's Chapter 893 - Drug Abuse Prevention and Control.

Quote:

(1) USE OR POSSESSION OF DRUG PARAPHERNALIA.--It is unlawful for any person to use, or to possess with intent to use, drug paraphernalia



Quote:

Drug paraphernalia is deemed to be contraband which shall be subject to civil forfeiture. The term includes, but is not limited to:

(1) Kits used, intended for use, or designed for use in the planting, propagating, cultivating, growing, or harvesting of any species of plant which is a controlled substance or from which a controlled substance can be derived.



Quote:

(4) Testing equipment used, intended for use, or designed for use in identifying, or in analyzing the strength, effectiveness, or purity of, controlled substances.




Psilocybin can clearly be derived from mushrooms. So, even though the language from the UCSA defines the chemical itself as illegal, paraphernalia laws make the possession of your grow materials illegal and appear to make "harvesting of any species of plant which is a controlled substance or from which a controlled substance can be derived," illegal by extension.

And even if you were to attempt to grow an inert mushroom, the possession of the equipment needed to make that determination (not to mention the process needed to get there) is illegal, too.

I try to stay on topic, but sometimes...


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


Edited by thedefone (12/27/07 07:59 PM)


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Offlineshroomials
Shrooms


Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 118
Loc: north carolina
Last seen: 16 years, 10 days
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: whereismymind]
    #7805328 - 12/27/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

hi im shroomials i posted a formal post about using white flour i have used it an test it. ur mushrooms come out funky looking somtimes an not potent there have potency in them but very little due to the fact that mushrooms need nutrients thats y we use brf it has nutrients making the mushroom potent so. it woulstill be illeagal because its still a cubensi an is still potent in a way were we can feel it but its there


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OfflineNibin
Getting there
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: thedefone]
    #7806159 - 12/27/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

thedefone said:
You asked, I delivered...

Quote:

Hallucinogenic substances. Any material, compound, mixture or preparation which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, their salts, isomers and salts of isomers, unless specifically excepted, whenever the existence of these salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation




This is an example of the language used in Idaho's Uniform Controlled Substances Act  This language, in particular, is recurrent throughout many states drug laws when dealing with the scheduling and classification of controlled substances.  The states must have adopted this language in order to get their hands on federal money.  Well, that quote leads me to my next reference...

Florida's Chapter 893 - Drug Abuse Prevention and Control.

Quote:

(1)  USE OR POSSESSION OF DRUG PARAPHERNALIA.--It is unlawful for any person to use, or to possess with intent to use, drug paraphernalia



Quote:

Drug paraphernalia is deemed to be contraband which shall be subject to civil forfeiture. The term includes, but is not limited to:

(1)  Kits used, intended for use, or designed for use in the planting, propagating, cultivating, growing, or harvesting of any species of plant which is a controlled substance or from which a controlled substance can be derived. 



Quote:

(4)  Testing equipment used, intended for use, or designed for use in identifying, or in analyzing the strength, effectiveness, or purity of, controlled substances.




Psilocybin can clearly be derived from mushrooms.  So, even though the language from the UCSA defines the chemical itself as illegal, paraphernalia laws make the possession of your grow materials illegal and appear to make "harvesting of any species of plant which is a controlled substance or from which a controlled substance can be derived," illegal by extension.

And even if you were to attempt to grow an inert mushroom, the possession of the equipment needed to make that determination (not to mention the process needed to get there) is illegal, too.

I try to stay on topic, but sometimes...




Since when is a mushroom a plant? :cool:


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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Invisiblethedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: Nibin]
    #7806695 - 12/28/07 07:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You just couldn't resist, could you?


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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OG Cultivator
Re: I want to settle this once in for all...simple yes or no. [Re: jape]
    #7806950 - 12/28/07 09:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
This thread has ran its course. The bottom line answer is 'No'. You can't use white rice or white flour to grow non-active mushrooms legally that you can then harvest active mushroom spore prints from.
RR


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