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OfflinePurple Mushroom
The Purpled One
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Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 32
Loc: PA
Last seen: 16 years, 25 days
WTF Aids was man-made!?
    #7797804 - 12/25/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was just listening to a song, and it got me wanting to know more so
as the knowledge seeker that i am, i stumbled upon this.

http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read.html?id=5420

Now this calls for numerous emotions, but check it out and let me see what you think.


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“All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him” ~ buddah


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Offlinedarklucidity
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Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 51
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Purple Mushroom]
    #7798989 - 12/25/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I call bullshit. The whole article sounds so pseudosciency.


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: darklucidity]
    #7799283 - 12/25/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I read that whole article and whoever wrote it was an idiot. It was actually difficult to read; because the same idea was re-iterated throughout the article (in an idiotic manner, as if the author was clutching at straws) and most of the sentences were atrocious.

Boo to bad journalism.


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"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

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Addicting is not a word.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Cepheus]
    #7799710 - 12/25/07 11:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't bother reading the article as any claim that aids is man made is most likely BS. By tracking mutation rates in the virus, we can tell how old it is. Current data suggests that HIV started to mutate during the early 30's... well before we discovered DNA.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSquirrel_Nugs
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Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 62
Last seen: 14 years, 10 days
Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Seuss]
    #7799799 - 12/26/07 12:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbdown: :thumbdown:

:shitstorm:


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
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Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Squirrel_Nugs]
    #7800209 - 12/26/07 06:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

there is actually a very interesting documentary that theorizes that AIDS was actually the result of massively vaccinating poor african children with an expieremental live oral polio vacciene made from...... either chimps or monkeys..... back in the 50's...

i believe that the documentary was called the river, or the winding river or somthing like that....

man made, possible, intentionally made, probably not imho.


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Squirrel_Nugs]
    #7800279 - 12/26/07 07:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Squirrel_Nugs said:
:thumbdown: :thumbdown:

:shitstorm:




Cute.  Can you back up your little pictures with references?

Evolution of Mutation Rate and Virulence among Human Retroviruses
Paul W. Ewald, C. A. Mims, P. J. Lachmann, A. L. Hughes, J. D. Gillett, C. E. Parker
Philosophical Transactions: Biological Sciences, Vol. 346, No. 1317, Infection, Polymorphism and Evolution (Nov. 29, 1994), pp. 333-343

Quote:

Because rapid replication and high mutation rate probably contribute to rapid progression of infections to AIDS, the interplay of sexual activity, replication rate, and mutation rate helps explain why HIV-1 has only recently caused a lethal pandemic, even though molecular data suggest that it may have been present in humans for more than a century.




Molecular Clocks and the Puzzle of RNA Virus Origins
Edward C. Holmes, Department of Zoology, University of Oxford, Oxford OX1 3PS, United Kingdom

Quote:

Although the divergence times of the primate species in question are often uncertain, it is clear that virus-host cospeciation must mean a viral evolutionary history dating back millions of years. In contrast, far more recent timings are revealed using the sort of molecular clock calculations described here. In this case, the maximum sequence divergence observed suggests that the deepest split among the primate lentiviruses occurred only a few thousand years ago, and clearly far more recently than their host species diverged.




Tracing the origin and history of the HIV-2 epidemic
Philippe Lemey,†‡ Oliver G. Pybus,§ Bin Wang,¶ Nitin K. Saksena,¶ Marco Salemi,† and Anne-Mieke Vandamme†‡
†Rega Institute for Medical Research, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, B-3000 Leuven, Belgium
§Department of Zoology, University of Oxford, South Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PS, United Kingdom
¶Retroviral Genetics Laboratory, Center for Virus Research, Westmead Millenium Institute, Westmead Hospital, University of Sydney, Sydney, New South Wales 2145, Australia

Quote:

The evolutionary history of the simian immunodeficiency virussooty mangabey/HIV-2 lineage was reconstructed by using available database sequences with known sampling dates, and a timescale for this history was calculated by using maximum likelihood methods. The date of the most recent common ancestor of HIV-2 subtype A strains was estimated to be 1940 ± 16 and that of B strains was estimated to be 1945 ± 14.




Limitations of a Molecular Clock Applied to Considerations of the Origin of HIV-1
Bette Korber, James Theiler, Steven Wolinsky
Science 19 June 1998: Vol. 280. no. 5371, pp. 1868 - 1871

Quote:

A recent report has provided information that helps to determine the age of a common viral ancestor of the AIDS epidemic. Korber et al. examine the strengths as well as limitations of molecular clock analysis and the implications of the findings for planning vaccines and forecasting the future of the epidemic.




> there is actually a very interesting documentary that theorizes that AIDS was actually the result of massively vaccinating poor african children with an expieremental live oral polio vacciene made from......

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm:
Quote:

Many people have contested Hooper's theories and insist that local chimps were not infected with a strain of SIVcmz that is closely linked to HIV. Furthermore, the oral administration of the vaccine would seem insufficient to cause infection in most people (SIV/HIV needs to get directly into the bloodstream to cause infection - the lining of the mouth and throat generally act as good barriers to the virus).

In February 2000 the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia (one of the original manufacturers of the Chat vaccine) announced that it had discovered in its stores a phial of polio vaccine that had been used as part of the program. The vaccine was subsequently analysed and in April 2001 it was announced that no trace had been found of either HIV or chimpanzee SIV.5 A second analysis confirmed that only macaque monkey kidney cells, which cannot be infected with SIV or HIV, were used to make Chat.6 While this is just one phial of many, it means that the OPV theory remains unproven.

The fact that the OPV theory accounts for just one (group M) of several different groups of HIV also suggests that transferral must have happened in other ways too, as does the fact that HIV seems to have existed in humans before the vaccine trials were ever carried out. More about when HIV came into being can be found below.




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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineNephlyte
Misfortunate One
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Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,025
Loc: South Texas
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Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Seuss]
    #7801091 - 12/26/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know if it was man-made. But its a possibility.

http://www.documentary-film.net/search/watch-now.php?&ref=5

There is the documentary that got the question in my mind. Its called the "origin of aids"

Also, just because it was man made doesn't mean it was engineered. So, there is no need for the discovery of DNA for it to be man made.

And, if it was man made, that doesn't mean that it was maliciously made or even purposely made. It could have been a simple accident.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana


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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Nephlyte]
    #7801103 - 12/26/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

and that article originally posted is totally retarded.

"The first AIDS cases were uncovered in Manhattan in 1979. At that time there were no reported African cases. In fact, the AIDS epidemic in Africa did not begin until the autumn of 1982 at the earliest."

Ya, well think of what kind of health care system central africa had in 1970's. Basically nothing. There certainly wasn't pathogen testing equipment laying about. But those facilities may be common around manhattan. Once discovered here, scientists began looking for it all over the world and what do you know, they found an epidemic in africa.

Thats just one example, i don't feel like going through all the problems in this article.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
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Loc: Caribbean
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Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Nephlyte]
    #7801110 - 12/26/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> Also, just because it was man made doesn't mean it was engineered.

Usually, the term "man made" implies engineered (designed) by mankind. One could claim the epidemic was man made through the use of non-sterile needles (etc), but to claim the virus itself is man made is a reach. I understand your point, I just disagree with the strength of the wording.

> There is the documentary that got the question in my mind.

You should read the link I posted above.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineNephlyte
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Registered: 10/11/05
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Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Seuss]
    #7802574 - 12/27/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

You should read the link I posted above.




you're right, that was a good article.


--------------------
"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana


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OfflinePurple Mushroom
The Purpled One
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Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 32
Loc: PA
Last seen: 16 years, 25 days
Re: WTF Aids was man-made!? [Re: Nephlyte]
    #7803903 - 12/27/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Damn those conspiracy theories and their skeptical evidence.

It was thought-provoking though.


--------------------
“All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him” ~ buddah


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