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InvisibleCracka_X
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Questions For Christians [Re: fivepointer]
    #7799947 - 12/26/07 01:23 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death. While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.




Oh that's neat. Don't you ever THINK to yourself outside the sphere of your well bordered beliefs/faith?

I'd really like to know your background, Socioeconomic Status, and so on. I think that would tell a lot about a person like you.

Maybe I could start my own little company that profits off assoles like you. I could form my own ministry catering to your SES and make a tax-free fortune!! Whew, I'm salivating with the potential of power.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7799952 - 12/26/07 01:28 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cracka_X said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death. While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.




Oh that's neat. Don't you ever THINK to yourself outside the sphere of your well bordered beliefs/faith?

I'd really like to know your background, Socioeconomic Status, and so on. I think that would tell a lot about a person like you.

Maybe I could start my own little company that profits off assoles like you. I could form my own ministry catering to your SES and make a tax-free fortune!! Whew, I'm salivating with the potential of power.




I'm in


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7799961 - 12/26/07 01:38 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Cracka_X, Disagree all you like, but no flaming in this forum.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7800116 - 12/26/07 05:01 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Jebuzz didn't want us to distract from the 'father'.
All that babbling about Jebuzz by some is meant to distract us from g*d and mainly is invented from some power hungry churches which projected all g*d's' power into a person they call Jesus (to distract one from g*d), which almost all fell to worldly power-influences as they forget to point out what g*d really seems to be and can't be fixed to only one person, how hilarious.
Humans.

edit: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Silversoul]
    #7801249 - 12/26/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Lol, is this fivepointer guy for real or is he just fucking w/ us?



I'd like to believe the latter, but I just don't think anyone trying to fuck with us would keep up the act for so long.




Is it possible that he a piece of interactive software? The responses are limited and predictable.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7801988 - 12/26/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Lol, is this fivepointer guy for real or is he just fucking w/ us?




to be honest, fivepointer is they only person here that actually answered my question with a logical answer.

so fivepointer, could the indians just be some strange illusion to test me on this very question? or could they be people that lived their lives in the past, didn't choose the right path, and then had to live life over again(as indians) without any chance of finding God? or is it just something that a human wouldn't be able to understand?

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7802001 - 12/26/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Lol, is this fivepointer guy for real or is he just fucking w/ us?



I'd like to believe the latter, but I just don't think anyone trying to fuck with us would keep up the act for so long.




Is it possible that he a piece of interactive software? The responses are limited and predictable.




Lol!


--------------------

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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7802616 - 12/27/07 12:45 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

hahaha !


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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InvisibleCracka_X
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Atheist]
    #7802641 - 12/27/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
it's a very interesting thought

imagine all the people BEFORE jesus and christianity...do they go to hell for not believing?




Yeah God had to make sure the time was right for letting Man into heaven.

This has made me wonder about the transition the old testament made to the new testament.  Like God just had a change of heart and decided to be a little more forgiving.

Seems like daddy hit mommy at the dinner table in the old testament and the new testament goes on saying how everything will be ok. 

Either way, the pages of the book are soft enough for my ass so I'm happy :smile:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Posts: 14,279
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7803389 - 12/27/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I just thought I'd add that personal immortality is NOT biblical. Most people have been so influenced by the Hellenistic elements of Christianity that they do not understand that "eternal life" is NOT the same as personal immortality. God alone is eternal, and the human being as differentiated from Pure Being (God) perishes. What remains of the human being is, ostensibly, love, because of the formulaic "God is love" (1 John 4:8). Agape - selfless love, does not originate with the human being but is God's nature incarnating - coming to birth in the human being. This is the whole point of the Incarnation as metaphor for God manifesting in space-time. The only thing is, when metaphor is taken literally, it becomes doctrine.

Judaism sometimes spoke of 'sheol' like the Greek Hades, a projection of the astral sort, not much more than metaphor. Personal immortality of an individual awareness, unbound to a physical body necessitates some kind of rarified body, like the Catholic 'glorified body' or 'resurrection body' An individual awareness completely free and unbounded by some kind of frame of reference makes no sense. It would then be a universal awarenesss, and THAT would be a description of God or Buddhist Clear Light or another religion's term. In the Buddhist doctrine, this is exactly what is taught to be the case as well as in certain Gnostic Christian sects, namely, that who and what we are essentially is indistinguishable from God. This is why the further doctrine of Godhead developed - to distinguish human being spiritual essence from the Essence of God - the Godhead. God and Godhead are metaphorically sunlight and sun, respectivly.

Therefore, 'going' to heaven or hell denotes movement, movement in turn denotes an object moving between different points on some continuum or within some matrix. Now these expressions: going to heaven/hell may themselves remain metaphorical for conditions or experiences that the dying body-brain-bound consciousness may experience, and as psychonauts well know, there are moments of timeless intensity which are experienced as eternity. It may well be that consciousness returning to Pure Consciousness, like the wave which is blown into form by the wind, peaks, dies and returns into the placid Ocean whence it arose, finally experiences itself as the entire Ocean instead of as an individual wave. While in time, there is individuality and beyond time, there is only utter simplicity - Unity in the One.

Hell, perhaps better elaborated in Buddhism, is the result of ignorance (sin in the West) in which the individual human being identifies completely with form, matter and egoic mind. There is no awareness of God in life and the dissolution of form-bound consciousness in the 'Face' of the Clear Light (or 'Limitless Light' in Kabbalism) is tantamount to facing the white-hot fires of Hell. Painful to the individual consciousness which refuses to surrender to dissolution - an 'icy' identity which refuses to accept its 'watery' or 'steamy' essence as 'soul' and 'spirit.' (Hey, we're like 85% water, so waves and water metaphors apply! :smile:) Heaven might then be likened more to a willful surrender and relaxation into a not-too-hot bath - a melting, melding, unifying immersion into the essence of who and what we are and have always been.

I'm simply suggesting metaphors which move away from some monsterous Moloch-like deity who immolates human 'souls' in an eternal torment unless one believes a particular set of doctrines (thoughts). The biblical rendering of the Greek psyche is non-Hebrew in nature and thus it does not represent the mind of Iesus or the early [Jewish] Christians. No one I've ever met aside from Kabbalistis ever bothered to ask what Paul, Iesus and the other Hebrews meant when they used the word 'soul.' I can say (without getting more academic)  that they didn't mean anything like what the average or below-average Christian has in mind. Most Christians uncritically carry Greek ideas of the soul which has nothing to do with the understandings of biblical writers. It was the Hellenistic Jew, Philo of Alexandria who first merged Greek philosophy with Hebrew mythos in the attempt to justify the supernatural elements of the Jewish Bible (thereby creating theology!). The author of the Gospel of John, some 90 years after Iesus died, utilized Philo's writings on the Logos (Word, Reason, Meaning) to write his gospel. Going to heaven/hell is NOT a Hebrew notion and it is NOT what Iesus would have taught regardless of what anyone's interpretations of the New Testament are or have been.

"Chistianity Must Change or Die."
- Rev. John Shelby Spong


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleGretchenmeister
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7820532 - 01/01/08 03:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Actually the native americans have thier own story of creation and God, and eventually of Jesus. In legend, the tribes were given to the earth as twelve tribes, from twelve stars. They also believe Jesus was a starperson, sage warrior, healer...or otherwise a shaman.

Who showed the shaman the way?


--------------------
What's wrong with folks?

Point your IRC client to irc.socialirc.com, port 6667, #cultivation and #shroomery for live chat with like minded hobbyists and connoisseurs.


Mush Porn

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Offlineeve69
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Gretchenmeister]
    #7820549 - 01/01/08 03:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck Jesus.


--------------------
...or something






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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Gretchenmeister]
    #7820735 - 01/01/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly, I think Jesus could have very well been a shaman of some sort.. he has this profound moment, or realization of life, so what do you do after that? Most of us have had those kind of trips... you want to talk about it. Instead of people taking it in and trying to realize for themselves, they started worshipping him instead of his views... he's not the son of god, just another enlightened one, and ALL of us can be enlightened, because we're all apart of god( i don't like to use the word god), we're all apart of the universe.

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