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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Questions For Christians
    #7797055 - 12/24/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7797208 - 12/25/07 12:59 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Two schools of thought here.

There are the Christians who believe anybody but a true Christian is going to Hell...

And there are those who believe, like Jesus, that a good Samaritan is as welcome in heaven as anybody else.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7797258 - 12/25/07 01:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death. While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: fivepointer]
    #7797275 - 12/25/07 01:47 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death. While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.




Are you fucking kidding me man? So you're saying everyone has at least one chance to hear the gospel? WRONG!! How can you fucking say that? Please tell me where you gathered this information sir. I'd rather be damned to Hell than be up there with the Judeo-Christian megalomaniacal God.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7797288 - 12/25/07 01:55 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death. While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.




Are you fucking kidding me man? So you're saying everyone has at least one chance to hear the gospel? WRONG!! How can you fucking say that? Please tell me where you gathered this information sir. I'd rather be damned to Hell than be up there with the Judeo-Christian megalomaniacal God.



I never said everyone has had at least one chance to hear the gospel. Millions have never heard any gospel ever. No one is owed salvation and no one is owed a "chance". The ELECT, those who are predestined for salvation will heard and believe, not everyone.

Edited by fivepointer (12/25/07 01:57 AM)

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: fivepointer]
    #7797299 - 12/25/07 02:02 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death. While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.




Are you fucking kidding me man? So you're saying everyone has at least one chance to hear the gospel? WRONG!! How can you fucking say that? Please tell me where you gathered this information sir. I'd rather be damned to Hell than be up there with the Judeo-Christian megalomaniacal God.



I never said everyone has had at least one chance to hear the gospel. Millions have never heard any gospel ever. No one is owed salvation and no one is owed a "chance". The ELECT, those who are predestined for salvation will heard and believe, not everyone.




Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds man? That statement is completely illogical in every sense of the word. So the people who aren't predestined for salvation go to hell even if they live by Christian law moreso than most Christians? That's not the idea of God that I had in mind, then again..who really knows...


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7797306 - 12/25/07 02:06 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe God's just fucking with us...


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7797310 - 12/25/07 02:10 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death. While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.




Are you fucking kidding me man? So you're saying everyone has at least one chance to hear the gospel? WRONG!! How can you fucking say that? Please tell me where you gathered this information sir. I'd rather be damned to Hell than be up there with the Judeo-Christian megalomaniacal God.



I never said everyone has had at least one chance to hear the gospel. Millions have never heard any gospel ever. No one is owed salvation and no one is owed a "chance". The ELECT, those who are predestined for salvation will heard and believe, not everyone.




Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds man? That statement is completely illogical in every sense of the word. So the people who aren't predestined for salvation go to hell even if they live by Christian law moreso than most Christians? That's not the idea of God that I had in mind, then again..who really knows...



Even the most outwardly pious seemingly "good" man still lacks the righteousness demanded by God. God can only look at perfect, but no one is perfect. He can look at His Son who is perfect. Those who come through the Son are deemed perfect, not in themselves, but through Christ's perfect righteousness can they have access to the Father through the Son.

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: fivepointer]
    #7797327 - 12/25/07 02:23 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus?  how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell.  The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death.  While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.




Are you fucking kidding me man?  So you're saying everyone has at least one chance to hear the gospel?  WRONG!!  How can you fucking say that?  Please tell me where you gathered this information sir.  I'd rather be damned to Hell than be up there with the Judeo-Christian megalomaniacal God.



I never said everyone has had at least one chance to hear the gospel.  Millions have never heard any gospel ever.  No one is owed salvation and no one is owed a "chance".  The ELECT, those who are predestined for salvation  will heard and believe, not everyone.




Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds man?  That statement is completely illogical in every sense of the word.  So the people who aren't predestined for salvation go to hell even if they live by Christian law moreso than most Christians?  That's not the idea of God that I had in mind, then again..who really knows...



Even the most outwardly pious seemingly "good" man still lacks the righteousness demanded by God.  God can only look at perfect, but no one is perfect.  He can look at His Son who is perfect.  Those who come through the Son are deemed perfect, not in themselves, but through Christ's perfect righteousness can they have access to the Father through the Son.




God can look at anything cause he's all powerful right?  If not then Jesus isn't God according to your logic.  Man you must have had a horrible trip or something to make you sound as you sound...Let go of the past and embrace the now.  It's scary I know..after a few terrifying trips I "converted" back to Christianity for fear of damnation(Salvia is some scary shit yo).  Your logic will hopefully return son :pirate:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7797341 - 12/25/07 02:36 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

LayYouIn said:
would you say that all the Indians went to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus?  how could they have accepted Jesus into their lives when they grew up with completely different religions and never even heard of Jesus or the holy bible?



A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell.  The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death.  While salvation is 100% by God's sovereign grace and a free gift, it doesn't mean that a person will be saved without being converted.

Faith doesn't merit salvation, it evidences the salvation freely given.




Are you fucking kidding me man?  So you're saying everyone has at least one chance to hear the gospel?  WRONG!!  How can you fucking say that?  Please tell me where you gathered this information sir.  I'd rather be damned to Hell than be up there with the Judeo-Christian megalomaniacal God.



I never said everyone has had at least one chance to hear the gospel.  Millions have never heard any gospel ever.  No one is owed salvation and no one is owed a "chance".  The ELECT, those who are predestined for salvation  will heard and believe, not everyone.




Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds man?  That statement is completely illogical in every sense of the word.  So the people who aren't predestined for salvation go to hell even if they live by Christian law moreso than most Christians?  That's not the idea of God that I had in mind, then again..who really knows...



Even the most outwardly pious seemingly "good" man still lacks the righteousness demanded by God.  God can only look at perfect, but no one is perfect.  He can look at His Son who is perfect.  Those who come through the Son are deemed perfect, not in themselves, but through Christ's perfect righteousness can they have access to the Father through the Son.




God can look at anything cause he's all powerful right?  If not then Jesus isn't God according to your logic.  Man you must have had a horrible trip or something to make you sound as you sound...Let go of the past and embrace the now.  It's scary I know..after a few terrifying trips I "converted" back to Christianity for fear of damnation(Salvia is some scary shit yo).  Your logic will hopefully return son :pirate:



When I say "look at" it really means have relations with, to be reconciled to, to be joined in union with.  No horrible trip here.  I have had trips where I could not think in English.  Where my reality was replaced (salvia).  Where the very pillars of myself have been moved.  But all these things never gave me any truth.  Fear did not motivate me since I was an agnostic/atheist.  I was dead sober when I was converted.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7797569 - 12/25/07 07:26 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

A corollary question is: do pets go to heaven when they die?

When I was about 8, a Catholic priest told me that animals don't have a soul so they don't go to heaven. It made me cry because I loved my German Shepherd and it didn't seem fair that he wouldn't go to heaven with me. :sad:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7797657 - 12/25/07 08:47 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

This is why the exoteric Christian mind-set has been so destructive to humanity - the concrete interpretation of the mythic-midrashic writings. The Greek-Jewish synthesis blends into unitary mysticism of comm[union] with the ONE God at the esoteric, gnostic level. As long as one's temporily-bound (which is to say thinking/believing) mind has not allowed its thought-bound limitations to vanish, one in never aware of one 'being in Christ.'

The gross errors of the Christian religion is perhaps best epitomized by the doctrine of The Trinity which I have studied academically, contemplated and included in my prayer life for decades. I finally saw the end of this concept - annihilated both by the words of scripture and by personal experiences. Amen. God is not Three, although I have read some fascinating developments of the term 'Trinity' offered by Tertullian: Augustine, Pseudo-Dionysius, Vladimir Lossky, Sergei Bulgakov, John MacQuarrie, etc. This doctrine devised of separate Names for Deity, never intended to be combined into a 'threesome' in the canonical Bible is symbolically at the head of the Christian claim for uniqueness. There was, no doubt, some Egyptian influence in its manufacture since the Egyptian trinity Osirus-Horus-Isis has close symbolic affinities to Christian trinitarian symbolism (e.g., winged Isis and later derivations of goddesses included a dove in its symbolism, Horus is a martial deity reminiscent of "...I did not come to bring peace, but a sword..." in Matthew 10:34-39, and Osirus represents dismemberment and resurrection which parallels crucifixion and resurrection).

The Great Spirit of the Native American tribes is closer conceptually to the ONE God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob , Moses and Jesus than the contrivance of trinitarian Christianity. As far as I am concerned, only unitarian (not necessarily the denomination, but theologically speaking) Christians are close to the teaching of Jesus Himself (in the New Testament and outside the canon!) than a concept of God reminiscent of Cerberus, the three-headed dog that guards Hades in Greek mythology! Quite a turn-around in one's 'feelings' for the 'sacred' over the 'profane' I'd say, yet the Holy Trinity remains a concept and ONLY a concept.
This is one idol of mind that will take a long time to be smashed, but Christendom's highest mystics including The Master Himself proclaimed this and ONLY this Jewish dictate: "Hear O Israel, the LORD our God, the Lord is ONE."
The Great Spirit, God, is God. As the Muslims say, "There is no God but God..."
and lambs and doves do not belong in the "Superessential Godhead" (Pseudo-Dionysus). And the self-righteous, imperialistc 'Christian' thinks [s]he has the right, no, the imperative, to evangelize to the 'Heathen' "...in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," along with the attending stupidity to believe that it is "three persons in one substance" ("tres personas una substantia"). Nice try at sating the polytheistic soul of non-Jewish Christians while persecuting monotheistic Jews and Muslims and yes, Native Americans, at every opportunity.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESUS. MANY HAPPY RETURNS.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7797791 - 12/25/07 09:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

it's a very interesting thought

imagine all the people BEFORE jesus and christianity...do they go to hell for not believing?

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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7798090 - 12/25/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Since you reject scripture as your sole authority for doctrine and replaced it with what seems right in your own eyes you have reached erroneous conclusions.

Why should anyone listen to you? Should we trust in your decades of contemplation, or the Word of God? You obviously just make things up as you go along.

The Trinity is not dependent on what so and so said in the past, it is part of scripture. You use every opportunity to attempt to destroy essential gospel doctrine, a sure sign of being unregenerate. Your theology is not Christian so why bother calling yourself Christian?

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: fivepointer]
    #7798100 - 12/25/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder that exact same thing myself. As for me I have always been comfortable telling people that I am not a Christian.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: fivepointer]
    #7799872 - 12/26/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death.



I see. So God loves white people and hates Asians.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Silversoul]
    #7799897 - 12/26/07 12:51 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

all of the different ideas scare me because if there's so much doubt it seems like people are just making it up and there is no actual God and well i am fucking afraid.


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Silversoul]
    #7799902 - 12/26/07 12:54 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
A person who lives and dies and has never heard the gospel ever goes to hell. The elect are ALWAYS placed in a situation where the gospel will be heard and believed prior to death.



I see. So God loves white people and hates Asians.




Lol, is this fivepointer guy for real or is he just fucking w/ us?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7799904 - 12/26/07 12:55 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Lol, is this fivepointer guy for real or is he just fucking w/ us?



I'd like to believe the latter, but I just don't think anyone trying to fuck with us would keep up the act for so long.


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Questions For Christians [Re: Silversoul]
    #7799910 - 12/26/07 12:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
Lol, is this fivepointer guy for real or is he just fucking w/ us?



I'd like to believe the latter, but I just don't think anyone trying to fuck with us would keep up the act for so long.




True, unless he had pre-existing mental conditions then took hella dr00gz and went crazy!:pirate:


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