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OfflineMuppet
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the asininity of erroneous convictions
    #7792700 - 12/23/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

We live in a world where you are inherently judged by your outward appearance - where the facade you present to the world will, undoubtedly, determine how you are treated by those you encounter.
  • employers (often times) will overlook potential applicants if their first initial impression is unsatisfactory
  • meeting someone for the first time (generally) results inaccurate judgments based off of stereotypes
  • and relationships come with a whole range of problems that arise from these types of issues
We live in a world where everything revolves around outer appearance...period.



But not everyone that's a part of our world plays these stupid little games.

There's an entire sub-culture of people out there who don't even bother with this kind of crap...and as much as I hate to admit it - it's usually because these are the very same people that are at the bottom of the proverbial food chain themselves. These are people who know they have 'problems' themselves, and don't go out of their way to cast judgment on others because of it. They are the ragging alcoholics / the obsessive drug addicts / the homeless bum types that are rejected from society anyway. They are the scourge of the earth...and they know it.

But because they are rejected by so many - they reject so few themselves.

You'll always know these people when you see them, because more often then not - their 'problems' are outwardly apparent. (whether it be by a meth addict's sunken in cheeks, or a homeless person's shabby attire) But even if it's not something quite so obvious as that - you'll still recognize them by their attitudes, and the way they respond to new people and new situations. Because when you meet somebody like this for the first time - they're not going to look down upon you for your own outward appearance the same way that other classes of individuals often times might. They're gonna treat you as an equal...and they're going to overlook whatever it is about yourself that makes you stand out.

And the *beautiful* thing about having this kind of mentality is that we also live in a world where many many people are exceptions to their stereotypes. Some of the greatest minds I've ever met came across (initially) as being exactly the sort of person that would be the least likely to be that sort of individual. And in the inverse - some of the most sophisticated people I have ever known, have also been the most close minded. (just as 'godly' images aren't always 'good' / and 'bad boys' aren't always so tough)

And it's not that people at the bottom of the chain don't jump to stereotypes themselves...only that they're much more willing to give someone a chance (and see what sort of person they are at the core) then those of us who have never *had to* condescend to others. Cause I have an entire family like that - people who go to ungodly extremes to project a certain image to the world - and I guarantee you that these are the people who are quick to cover up their own 'problems' because their image is really the only thing that they have going for them. While it's the people that don't have those sort of images in the first place who are more open about their own inner demons, and more willing to face whatever problems they *do* actually have.

And it's their acceptance of those 'problems' that makes it easier to accept others for theirs.

But mankind as a whole isn't going to be able to start learning how to break down these stereotypical barriers we always keep between ourselves until the people at the top of the chain first learn to acknowledge the fact that they too have 'problems' of their own. And, unfortunately, that won't happen until the people at the bottom stop giving them a reason to maintain their outer appearances the way they always have. Because as long as we keep treating them differently because they put on a show for us - then this movie will never end. And as long as 'the show must go on' - then all the problems that come with it will continue.



And it all starts with how YOU react to your own initial first impressions.  :craven:


--------------------


:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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InvisibleClean
the lense
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Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
Re: the asininity of erroneous convictions [Re: Muppet]
    #7792788 - 12/23/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Some astute observations there muppet.

As far as what I think about what you were pointing out... it seems a lot of it stems from people's unwillingness to accept the way that they feel.
In modern society there is this insane tradition of suppressing the "bad" emotions. But when one does this it is like trying to stop the flow of water from a hose without turning off the spigot. If you plug it up it's just going to build up pressure and eventually the flow [emotions] will find somewhere to go. So suppress your "bad" emotions and eventually they will start to "contaminate" your entire psyche and eventually start seeping out in to the littlest of interactions with other people.

But this is not even scratching the surface. Volumes could be written about this.

I think part of it goes to this: Somehow we got the idea that we are perfect and everyone else is somehow flawed. I hear people say "nobody's perfect" all the time, but i doubt people are applying it to themselves. If they do it is in attempt to brush off a mistake they have made, thus exposing the fact that they harbor some illusions that they should be, or even can be, perfect. As though their mistake was a slip from an otherwise flawless existence.

Well there is no "perfect", as in "flawless" or, 100% without error.
I would love to know how humans got the idea that we could ever be such.

Damn this is some food for thought.
I like this paragraph:
Quote:

But mankind as a whole isn't going to be able to start learning how to break down these stereotypical barriers we always keep between ourselves until the people at the top of the chain first learn to acknowledge the fact that they too have 'problems' of their own. And, unfortunately, that won't happen until the people at the bottom stop giving them a reason to maintain their outer appearances the way they always have. Because as long as we keep treating them differently because they put on a show for us - then this movie will never end. And as long as 'the show must go on' - then all the problems that come with it will continue.




Show indeed.
You ever feel like people are mostly just pretending to be decent to each other?
Everyone thinks actors are for stages but if that's true then every fucking square inch of this entire planet is a theatre. (Yes i'm aware that shakespere wrote of this)

Like, i can tell when i meet a genuinely decent person. There is a certain quality of interaction that is lacking with someone who is always pretending.

So why do we pretend? Well the answers are numerous and delve into many different subjects..but for simplicity's sake I will say:
Because we can't bare the thought of others not liking us.
Why not?
Because we don't even like ourselves. (though, almost no one is willing to admit it)

If we have an internal sense of true self worth, then our state of mind would not always depend on what others may or may not think of us.
Thus we would not feel the impulse to constantly pretend to be happy/ nice / whatever to others and such impulses when they do arise would be truly heartfelt and not some contrived snapshot for our ego's photo album.


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Invisibledr_gonz

Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,654
. [Re: Clean]
    #7793955 - 12/23/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: the asininity of erroneous convictions [Re: dr_gonz]
    #7794491 - 12/24/07 12:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

nice post muppet


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Offlinecrumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex


Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: the asininity of erroneous convictions [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7794549 - 12/24/07 01:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It'd be a wonderful way to live life, but que sera. I'm glad you've had better experiences with folks at the bottom. Myself, I find them the same as the folks on top, often moreso. Most poor people, if they see someone who's outward appearence suggests wealth, grow disdaiful of the rich asshole. Unattractive people are often predisposed to reguard attractive people as very probably shallow and vain.

Then there's the other sad element of judging by appearence: it works.

Exceptions to stereotypes are, sadly, more often a happy accident than the rule. 7/10 people who look a fuck of a lot like meth heads are meth heads. Can you blame an employer for not wanting to hire meth heads? Or the homeless? Neither are known for being reliable. It's an asshole thing to say, but most homeless people are homeless because they couldn't hold a job.

It would be impossible not to judge by appearence. With the exception of physical deformity, we humans have a pretty apt capacity to choose our overall appearence. If that appearence is, as such, based on a choice, then you are, in the end, judging someone by how they choose to appear. Of course there are exceptions. some people can't afford nonshitty clothes. But some people just choose to wear shitty clothes. In the end, the only people who are avoiding them are people who are very interested in clothes, and so there's no harm.

We, as people, lived at least 70k years in groups of 30-50. We aren't designed to get to know every person we meet on a deep and personal level. We're not even really designed to encounter as many people as we do. We have a core group of people (that same tribal 30-50) that we can mentally concern ourselves with. We're predisposed, by this massive tribal era, to like and prefer people who we believe look like us, because our dress and ethnic appearence shows our tribe, and anyone outside our tribe is likely an enemy, contending with us for resources.

In an ideal world, we'd be floating balls of energy who left physicality behind as an afterthought. Maybe even in a perfect world, we'd just be one ball of energy. This isn't a perfect world though. What stops us from judging others by their apperence is, it's WORKED, for a long, long time. We don't hire junkies, because junkies work just long enough to get junk and then disappear, never returning the uniform they were issued. If you think that this isn't the pattern of junkies, work fast food for a few years. So, if you can spot a junkie by his sunken eyes, scabby arms, and twitching, you can save yourself having to hire his replacement in two weeks and being out $40 for his pants, shirt, and baseball cap.


--------------------


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: the asininity of erroneous convictions [Re: Muppet]
    #7795254 - 12/24/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

As crumblebum pointed out, the tendency to form snap judgments of people based pretty much only on appearance has been very helpful in terms of evolution. I don't think there's anything inherently good or bad about this judging of others or ourselves, but the real issue lies in the fact that we completely believe these judgments, hook, line, and sinker.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinefreddurgan
Techgnostic
Male


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 3,648
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: the asininity of erroneous convictions [Re: Muppet]
    #7797058 - 12/24/07 11:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe the problem with snap judgments isn't that we make them, it's that we continue to believe them even after the facts have disproven them.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: the asininity of erroneous convictions [Re: Muppet]
    #7797064 - 12/24/07 11:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Muppet said:
We live in a world where you are inherently judged by your outward appearance - where the facade you present to the world will, undoubtedly, determine how you are treated by those you encounter.
  • employers (often times) will overlook potential applicants if their first initial impression is unsatisfactory
  • meeting someone for the first time (generally) results inaccurate judgments based off of stereotypes
  • and relationships come with a whole range of problems that arise from these types of issues
We live in a world where everything revolves around outer appearance...period.



But not everyone that's a part of our world plays these stupid little games.

There's an entire sub-culture of people out there who don't even bother with this kind of crap...and as much as I hate to admit it - it's usually because these are the very same people that are at the bottom of the proverbial food chain themselves. These are people who know they have 'problems' themselves, and don't go out of their way to cast judgment on others because of it. They are the ragging alcoholics / the obsessive drug addicts / the homeless bum types that are rejected from society anyway. They are the scourge of the earth...and they know it.

But because they are rejected by so many - they reject so few themselves.

You'll always know these people when you see them, because more often then not - their 'problems' are outwardly apparent. (whether it be by a meth addict's sunken in cheeks, or a homeless person's shabby attire) But even if it's not something quite so obvious as that - you'll still recognize them by their attitudes, and the way they respond to new people and new situations. Because when you meet somebody like this for the first time - they're not going to look down upon you for your own outward appearance the same way that other classes of individuals often times might. They're gonna treat you as an equal...and they're going to overlook whatever it is about yourself that makes you stand out.

And the *beautiful* thing about having this kind of mentality is that we also live in a world where many many people are exceptions to their stereotypes. Some of the greatest minds I've ever met came across (initially) as being exactly the sort of person that would be the least likely to be that sort of individual. And in the inverse - some of the most sophisticated people I have ever known, have also been the most close minded. (just as 'godly' images aren't always 'good' / and 'bad boys' aren't always so tough)

And it's not that people at the bottom of the chain don't jump to stereotypes themselves...only that they're much more willing to give someone a chance (and see what sort of person they are at the core) then those of us who have never *had to* condescend to others. Cause I have an entire family like that - people who go to ungodly extremes to project a certain image to the world - and I guarantee you that these are the people who are quick to cover up their own 'problems' because their image is really the only thing that they have going for them. While it's the people that don't have those sort of images in the first place who are more open about their own inner demons, and more willing to face whatever problems they *do* actually have.

And it's their acceptance of those 'problems' that makes it easier to accept others for theirs.

But mankind as a whole isn't going to be able to start learning how to break down these stereotypical barriers we always keep between ourselves until the people at the top of the chain first learn to acknowledge the fact that they too have 'problems' of their own. And, unfortunately, that won't happen until the people at the bottom stop giving them a reason to maintain their outer appearances the way they always have. Because as long as we keep treating them differently because they put on a show for us - then this movie will never end. And as long as 'the show must go on' - then all the problems that come with it will continue.



And it all starts with how YOU react to your own initial first impressions.  :craven:




:whocares:


--------------------


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