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OfflineToo Vanilla
The Un-Negro
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Registered: 09/19/07
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Loc: Hickory, NC
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls.
    #7554340 - 10/24/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've seen a lot of people inquiring about phone calls and there's a lot of jecture but some of it is wrong. Straight from the horse's mouth (uncle works at the Pentagon, no party affiliation, and you'd never believe how handy it is to be related to someone like that).

No warrant is needed to monitor cell phone calls. Air is free domain. Officials can set up a digital scanner anywhere they please, and yes they can hear exactly what you're saying regardless of whether the phone call is outgoing or incoming. There's no way of telling whether or not your phone call is being monitored since the technology works on line of sight and other technological mumbo jumbo I don't understand... he said its like television, the signal from the antenna doesn't get weaker or stronger depending on the amounts of televisions tuned into it, only the proximity of the signal and monitoring device (we're talking air television broadcast, not cable). However, the range in which they monitor phone calls is somewhat limited by the amount of traffic. Somewhat being the operative word. This is in line with the crowded party scenario: You can focus on one conversation or one voice in the crowd, but the bigger the crowd the harder it is to do so... However, like I said, there is also a proximity effect. If you're standing right next to a person at a Metallica concert, you can hear them just fine if they're talking in your ear. If they're parked underneath your apartment, they can zero in on you easy as pie.

-Another thing to note, some phone providers, such as Comcast or AT&T, are letting government agencies set up systems in their buildings (for a fee). That way they can monitor specific cell phone accounts, but as of yet, there is no way for them to simply monitor all calls for illegal activity. No, they can't monitor for certain "Red Words" such as murder, terror, jihad, cocaine, and Rammstein.

A warrant must be issued for landline tapping, except for the NSA. With the new regulations in place thanks to the Patriot Act and other shit that's gone down during the current administration (and, believe it or not, during Clinton's administration), law enforcement officials need a warrant, but the NSA and anyone working under their blanket can tap your phone for 72 hours before getting a warrant, and they can use info they've gathered during that 72 hours to get a warrant. After the first 72 hours, they must either get a warrant or stop surveillance. Do they still monitor you? Perhaps, but the info they gather after the first 72 hours is only admissable if they have another Bush-monger wearing a robe, or if you aren't smart enough to call the ACLU.

Internet activity is monitored, IP addresses are logged, online Credit Card Activity IS monitored, no warrant is necessary, but the federal agencies haven't figured out a method in which to integrate all of this info. As of yet, its easier for them to backtrack (we arrested Joe Blow, here's the IPs he's used, here's is credit card info, and here's his computer, now see what you can find) seeing as they haven't come up with a database or algorithm sophisticated enough to take a proactive role. Anything you do on the internet, e-mails, and anything you do with your computer is admissable and if they've locked on you, they don't need a warrant to monitor your electronic communication. Realize, if you get busted for something minor and they smell smoke, they can monitor all of your online activity take you down for virtually anything you've done on the interwebs.

Hope this helps.


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OfflineToo Vanilla
The Un-Negro
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Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Hickory, NC
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: Too Vanilla]
    #7554397 - 10/24/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Just another thing. I didn't ask about Text Messaging on cell phones, so no I can't tell you what the deal is with that.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: Too Vanilla]
    #7554411 - 10/24/07 10:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Text messaging is probably pretty much the same as with cell phone calls, I would imagine.


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Invisiblefilthydee
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Registered: 10/08/07
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: Le_Canard]
    #7555493 - 10/24/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

if it's true that air is free domain and they don't need a warrant to listen to cell phone calls..why is it illegal to have a digital scanner modified to pick up cell phone frequencies?


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OfflineToo Vanilla
The Un-Negro
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Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Hickory, NC
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: filthydee]
    #7558130 - 10/25/07 06:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Its not illegal for citizens to possess a scanner with that capability, its just illegal for citizens to listen in on other phone calls without consent from 1 or (in some states) both parties.

Cops and law enforcement are allowed to use these scanners as they like, and they don't need consent. Being an officer of the law gives them privileges citizens don't have (examples include, but aren't limited to: A citizen can't park his car on private property without permission, a citizen cannot pull over another vehicle, a citizen (in some states) cannot talk on a cell phone while driving, etc...).


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: Too Vanilla]
    #7561162 - 10/25/07 10:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are these digital scanners very specialized, or something "joe blow cop" has in his car?

ie. they arnt listening to just anyone, but targeting certain "suspect" people.


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GO OUTSIDE.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: PDU]
    #7563896 - 10/26/07 04:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> No warrant is needed to monitor cell phone calls. Air is free domain.

99.9% of cell phones these days are digital, you can no longer hear the calls with a scanner.

If you go out in the middle of nowhere, there will still be a few analog calls. Often poor people who haven't been able to afford a cell phone for 10 years will use them.

When the U.S. passed CALEA in 1994, they put a Solaris boxes all over the place. Once you are the target of an investigation, a police officer logs into the solaris box, types in your phone number, and all your phone calls from that point on are saved as mp3's. Access control is verified by source IP address.

They have newer stuff out there too. If you go to the RSA conference (free), you can try it out. Works great. They assumed I was law enforcement and the sales guys were showing me all the cool features, trying to get me to buy it.

> Are these digital scanners very specialized, or something "joe blow cop" has in his car?

They used to sell them at Radio Shack. You can get them for $100 on ebay.

> ie. they arnt listening to just anyone, but targeting certain "suspect" people.

They listen to everyone, though they do have more sophisticated systems that decode the data channels, those can target just one person.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7577343 - 10/30/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You guys are full of shit.

It's no more legal for the law to listen to your phone calls without a warrant than it is for Joe Blow to get a modded scanner and listen in on you. Those days are long gone anyways, there is no analog signal out there anymore.

Cordless phones are another matter, but that's not what we're talking about here.


-FF


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Offlinedeformedreality
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: fastfred]
    #7577821 - 10/30/07 06:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Prepaid phones ftw, have a cell for everyday life and a throw away phone for bussiness ;-]


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OfflineCaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: deformedreality]
    #7584597 - 11/01/07 04:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There's only two reasons to write this guide, a general legal review of wiretapping, or a practical guide. This is wildly inaccurate for both. You're woefully incomplete on the procedures and circumstances for getting a tap on the first place; just because it *can* happen doesn't mean it does, or will. Wiretaps have a far higher standard than home searches.

Alan hit it right on the head. CDMA is dead, I'm not even sure what a "digital scanner" is supposed to be. A bit silly, perhaps. CDMA is dead. Practically speaking, your phone calls will not be heard until you're in a large criminal organization or a political threat.

Don't read 10 days worth of Digg and assume you know the law.


Edited by CaptainLinger (11/01/07 04:11 PM)


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Offlineaminorex
armed to theteeth loon
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Registered: 12/22/07
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: Too Vanilla]
    #7788032 - 12/22/07 03:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

THIS IS DISINFORMATION...they need special expensive hardware to monitor cell phones...not to mention they need to be within ~about a blocks radius to receive cell transmissions, its much easier for any fucking joe to watch everything youre doing on your computer as you do it on a wifi connection, secured or not.


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"G.W. Bush(sr.) says 'we are losing the war on drugs'. Well you know what that implies? There's a war going on, and people on drugs are winning it! Well what does that tell you about drugs? Some smart, creative motherfuckers on that side." - Bill Hicks, RIP


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Offlinefigurine
Cat Tamer
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Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 110
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: aminorex]
    #7788370 - 12/22/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think it would be relevant to share some crap that the former director of Pennsylvania's Bureau of Narcotics Investigation and Drug Control told me.

Anyway, conversations are protected under the fourth amendment. Back in old timey days (I don't remember the date. Either the late 19th century or 1914) Olmstead vs US ruled that the fourth amendment only pertained to physical intrusion, meaning that places, not people were protected. There were a few cases that reaffirmed this (Goldman vs US and Silverman vs US), but Olmstead vs US was later overruled in a the 1964 case Berger vs New York. This case ruled that conversations are considered personal property and indeed protected under the fourth amendment. After it, law enforcement had to obtain a warrant for the specific telephone in which they would listen in on. i.e., somebody could just call out from a different number and the warrant would not be applicable. However, the Patriot Act allows for roving wiretaps that apply to specific people and not telephones. I am uncertain if this applies in all cases, if the patriot act has to be invoked by Jesus or someone, or whatever.

As Captain Linger said, wiretaps do have exceptionally high standards. Rest assured that if the police are listening to your phone calls, they are doing so under the supervision of an attorney.

Nevertheless, I doubt that the police can just pick up cell phone signals without a warrant since Berger vs. NY ruled that conversations are considered personal property.


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Invisibletak
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: figurine]
    #7791692 - 12/23/07 07:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Cell phones can still be easily picked up. The equipment is much more expensive than a scanner from your local electronics store, but not like a nuclear bomb. Plus, they are not paying for it, you are. Don't be fooled to think your shit is secure, just because its protected from some kid with a radio. There are plenty of ways to intercept a digital signal, and with these technologies it becomes easier to lock onto a specific number, and also easier to follow it between towers. It takes time & know how, but if you are suspect, its possible.

Then there is always the option of service providers working with agencies. This is not speculation, it is FACT. There have been whistle blowers stating that whole rooms were set up at top tier networks, analyzing data.

There is also some grey area over what the government will and will not do regardless of legalities. Most civil rights are going to only hold up in court. If it doesn't make it to court, I don't think anyone is going to bitch. They might not be able to arrest you based on what you say on the phone, but they sure as hell can get information to organize a more legal way to gain evidence if you like to open your mouth.

And as far as computers, its almost safe to assume that 100% of yout data is being monitored if you are not using any encryption. Is it REALLY? Probably not...unless they wanted to lol.

Some will say put on your tinfoil hats, but paranoia has nothing to do with it. I wouldnt send a postcard with my name & address on it through USPS to Iran, asking for chemical weapons. If you have an important message, I suggest simply not putting it in the hands of government, and if you are, use encryption. They've done that for years upon years before cell phones and internet was out, and it was harder to intercept messages. I dont see why it suddenly becomes a non-issues with people who send sensitive data.


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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Invisibletak
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Re: Ok. Once and for all, here's the deal with phone calls. [Re: tak]
    #7791694 - 12/23/07 07:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I used the words nuke, iran, chemical weapons, and government is one shot. Ill see you all at Guantanamo :smile:


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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