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OfflinexFrockx
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Bonghits for Jesus?
    #7790425 - 12/22/07 08:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What do you all think about the Rastafarian Movement, or even more generally, the religious use of marijuana? Does marijuana bring any of you closer to god?

I would say marijuana has caused a spiritual side of me to manifest itself, which before was dormant at best. I think it has helped me more thoroughly understand my consciousness and even materialism. It is a big step to spend money on something that you only burn for a transient feeling, and I believe it is one powerful step towards rejecting the values we put on objects. To buy weed is to buy an experience, something you take with you for the rest of your life, and possibly even death. While it may be nice to be buried with coins over your eyes, I believe in the end it will be the value of your soul that will grant you passage across the river Styx. Come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with me, lads.


Edited by xFrockx (12/22/07 08:36 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7790429 - 12/22/07 08:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

isms are synonymous with delusion and identification.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7790438 - 12/22/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I had some profound experiences on marijuana, but what does that have to do with god?
We tend to worship everything that brings some sort of pleasure/joy into our lives and I don't think that it is a very healthy attitude since worshiping induces feelings of submission and addiction.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7790440 - 12/22/07 08:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What about Discordianism? In that case the entire point is absolute delusion, but complete non-identification.


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Offlineboxcarguy07
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7790441 - 12/22/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I use cannabis for spiritual reasons... i believe it brings me closer with God, I believe God created it for man to use (responsibly of course)

And I believe Rastafarians don't like the term "Rastafarianism", they prefer it be called the Rastafarian Movement. Semantics, I suppose...


--------------------
:musicnote:Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.:musicnote:


:psychsplit:"Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind."
            -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow:psychsplit:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7790443 - 12/22/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Is it necessarily a bad thing to submit to a higher diety? People are born with only one thing, a life, and to some worship brings them the greatest pleasure they can find in this world, and it many would rather die then have that taken away from them. If it brings ones life joy, then why is it an unhealthy attitude?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: boxcarguy07]
    #7790452 - 12/22/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I did not know that, but the OP is fixed now, thanks.

I can agree, it does bring be closer to god, but I tend to perfer Ghandi's sentiment, Truth = God. I believe that the joy provided by marijuana can sometimes show truth in terms of ones position in the world, and could even be considered valuable in balancing one's life and work.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7790486 - 12/22/07 08:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Is it necessarily a bad thing to submit to a higher diety?  People are born with only one thing, a life, and to some worship brings them the greatest pleasure they can find in this world, and it many would rather die then have that taken away from them.  If it brings ones life joy, then why is it an unhealthy attitude?




Everybody's free to do whatever they want.
This doesn't mean that we can't analyze this matter from a rational point of view and observe it's flaws.
Submitting and obeying are unhealthy generally speaking, not only when it comes to a "higher power" :rolleyes:
It is dangerous because submission makes people give up their power and reason, they become easily controllable because they're such easy emotional targets.
This is why the most determined murderers are coming from a religious affiliation. And if it's not religious it has all it's characteristics. Seeing life in black and white pushes one to take extreme actions.
Submission has it's roots in fear, don't let yourself fooled by the halo of delusion around it. How can fear create joy?
I suggest that you think about all that and leave aside any emotional relation you have with a higher power and what "it" does for you, and realize that you're walking on think ice when you decide to hold and promote such beliefs.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7790533 - 12/22/07 09:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"This doesn't mean that we can't analyze this matter from a rational point of view and observe it's flaws."

The flaws you present are relative. While the problems you speak of may be completely rational for yourself, I think you'll find that they simply are not true for many. While I am not one of them, I have met people who really find strength in faith in god. For example, one girl I know had Hodgkin's lymphoma, and she found a lot of strength in her trust of her god, and in her prayers and, I suppose you would call them, "submissions." Not all of us are made to be leaders, and the security of god and faith helps many who are happy followers, and I fail to see anything wrong with that preference, even from an outside perspective. People of faith are just as strong as people without it, no matter how much they submit to a god. Descartes was a brilliant thinker, yet he still held very strongly to his beliefs in an omnipotent god.


Edited by xFrockx (12/22/07 09:14 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7790601 - 12/22/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So in your opinion, the only way in which one can behave in a non submissive way is to be a born leader?
This is so far away of any notion of reality.
From what it looks like, you're standing in a point where you yourself see the world in black and white, and the only way to escape submission is to lead.
We are much more complex that that.
And it might be newsflash to you, but there are actually people who don't really belong to any of these two main and plain categories that you expressed. :shocked:
What about independence?

Quote:

The flaws you present are relative.




So is everything else.
Your point is? :shrug:
The presence of relativity is not sufficient reason to stop us from making an approximate evaluation of a situation, and by calculating the probabilities and determining in which side the matter is more probable we can be able to reach some pretty accurate conclusions.
What I said earlier are plain observations of a particular trend. More accurate then the attempt of example which you tried to present.
An ill girl finding her "strength" in believing in god is just a melodramatic example, not to mention a very flawed one since you weren't able to express how did god help her with all that.
However I can see how the "faith" (aka the placebo effect) helped her, but you have to become honest with yourself and realize that there was nothing more to it. And that this particular placebo effect can have catastrophic effects in other cases in which believers make use of it.

You keep asking me how faith can be detrimental to one's well being and I already elaborated upon that.
Now it's my turn to ask you a question: how can accepting reality and living accordingly harm anyone? :confused:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7790673 - 12/22/07 10:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"Now it's my turn to ask you a question: how can accepting reality and living accordingly harm anyone? "

Well, first of all, I think you'll find it very hard to prove that your notion of reality is any more real than a person of faith's. Your reality sees the effect of faith as a placebo effect, but others reality may see it as a true power that can help them when they are in need. To answer your question more directly, it is absolutely important for people to accept their own reality, regardless of their personal theological preferences, because its not the beliefs that make one strong, it is one's convictions. This action would definitely never harm anyone. I fear though that what your question meant was that it would never harm anyone to accept what you deem reality, in which case, I must disagree. People are not uniform, and one can absolutely never say what is best for someone else, no matter how high their esteem in their own reality is.


I could address some other things in your post itself but I think the answer to your question covers it well enough.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7790696 - 12/22/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

To answer your question more directly, it is absolutely important for people to accept their own reality, regardless of their personal theological preferences, because its not the beliefs that make one strong, it is one's convictions.




I am not familiar with the term of "their own reality"
Reality is singular and impersonal.
Maybe you could clarify it for me... :confused:

Quote:

I fear though that what your question meant was that it would never harm anyone to accept what you deem reality




Read my previous answer.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7790723 - 12/22/07 10:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Reality is singular and impersonal.



How do you know? Have you personally experienced this impersonal reality? Why is it that a room full of people can all perceive a different passage of time within the same timeframe? If our experiences of reality all differ, then how can we say with certainty that reality is singular?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7790748 - 12/22/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"I am not familiar with the term of "their own reality"
Reality is singular and impersonal."

I will use an example, actually, I will use the one you have provided.  In saying "Reality is singular and impersonal." you are demonstrating what you view as your reality.  While you may believe in the impersonality of reality, someone else may believe in a very conscious and forgiving reality.  It is impossible to prove that reality is either of these things, so we must accept that our version of reality may be different from someone else's, and this fact does not burden others, but rather, it simply makes them different.  I was saying that you are correct in saying that "accepting reality" was beneficial to someone, but in the sense that accepting one's own notion of reality can spare them of self-doubt, which can most certainly be detrimental to the psyche at times (unless of course, one considers self doubt to be their virtue in their own reality :smile:.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7790787 - 12/22/07 10:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Reality is singular and impersonal.



How do you know? Have you personally experienced this impersonal reality? Why is it that a room full of people can all perceive a different passage of time within the same timeframe? If our experiences of reality all differ, then how can we say with certainty that reality is singular?




I think that you might be confusing the object that is being perceived with the perception (the filters of perception).
They are not one and the same thing.
The interpretations might be personal, but reality is not.
The gab resides in the fact that our perceptions are limited while reality is multifaceted, that's why most likely our interpretations will only catch phases from the same timeframe.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7790844 - 12/22/07 10:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It is impossible to prove that reality is either of these things, so we must accept that our version of reality may be different from someone else's, and this fact does not burden others, but rather, it simply makes them different.




No it is not impossible.
In the sense that we can aways base our beliefs on reliable evidence.
For example you ask ten people to describe you the same picture and all the descriptions differ. Now it would be crazy to say that all the descriptions are righteous. :smirk:
That's why you can simply test which one of those descriptions are more accurate by simply comparing to the actual picture.
The same method (even if it's a little harder to accomplish) can apply to reality. :smile:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7790915 - 12/22/07 11:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Its good to see someone so well grounded in their own reality, your confidence in your beliefs shows in your persistence to promote your reality-tunnel.

In your reality empiricism is valued, as testing can determine how you decide what to accept. Others, however, do not ascribe to this method of reality-checking. They have their own reasons, of course, many of which being self-evident to their method of perception. Reliable evidence is simply one method of building your reality, but certainly not the only one, as many people find more comfort in other methods, including trust. I would tend to agree with your own method, but I could not accept that it was the only one, or it was somehow superior. After all, testing is only as good as the tester, and some believe that human beings are flawed in their perception. I couldn't persuade you to accept this line of thought though, I simply offer it as an example of an equal alternative.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7790990 - 12/22/07 11:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I would never consider that this way is the only way, because it would be contrary to my beliefs (both intuitive and logical).
I am not even stating that is is the ONLY method I use, but that it had shown (in my case) to work the best.

Quote:

After all, testing is only as good as the tester, and some believe that human beings are flawed in their perception.




Yes.
So the best that we can do in my opinion is to remain in a constant state of searching while keeping in mind the most effective means that we've encountered up to the present moment.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7791114 - 12/23/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I would tend to agree, but there are definitely people out there who prefer the comfort of ignoring the pursuit of truth, and it seems to work out for them, it seems like most of them go into working for the government to make our decisions for us.  :smile:


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OfflineJadian
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Re: Bonghits for Jesus? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7791126 - 12/23/07 12:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Completely irrelevant to anything but the title, but did you guys know the poor kid who held that "Bonghits for Jesus" sign up in Juneau had to move to Japan?

Well I'm sure he didn't have to, but he did. Is Bonghits for Jesus actually like... a well used line? That whole deal was the first I'd ever heard of it.


--------------------
LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:


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