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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7790383 - 12/22/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

What did I say that was in contradiction?





That for example:

Quote:

Ok, its like this. There is a big rock in an empty room, it breaks into smaller rocks, the total mass of the system doesn't' change and the smaller rocks are created from and essentially the same as the big rock. The little rock could say "him" when referring to the big rock but in the end its all the same rock.




The Christian definition of god: some dude who judges each and every action of ours and is ready to punish. A god that stands somewhere above his creation.

Quote:

How does my definition inhibit my ability to explore reality?




What purpose is there in naming things which are not there? It is pretty clear how this step can be detrimental to us perceiving and living life first hand.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineJoseLibrado
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Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7790470 - 12/22/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"To deny anything that isn't God would make God not God."

This makes sense. God would be unknowable unless not God, ceased to exist.

this means that to know the what real god is, we must know and believe what real god is not. And vice versa. It just cannot happen any other way.
So in the sense that an illusion is a thing, that is not a thing, god is what he is and what he isnt.

Tricky and sounds contradictory. But would you consider "A thing that is not real" a thing.Or in other words.

Is Nothing a thing. I think it must be because i can see that everything is a thing, and nothing is a thing that everything becomes evident, existent and reciprically.

SO to deny the importance of what god is not, would be to deny god, because it is through knowing "what god is not" that we can distinguish what we is.

Distinguish is defined as a differentiation that allows one to know what makes something distinct or different and thus recognizable as that thing.

Ie/ A color is only known as a color, is you can recognize that there are other colors.


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7790552 - 12/22/07 09:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Both, and neither.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7791712 - 12/23/07 07:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JackthaTripper said:
Are we part of or apart from?

I think God is everything all matter all voids, the universe.
I don't think he made us apart from him as a separate entity.

What do you think?




Show me any reasonable evidence for a God and I will enter the debate.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7791761 - 12/23/07 08:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
The Christian definition of god: some dude who judges each and every action of ours and is ready to punish. A god that stands somewhere above his creation.

What purpose is there in naming things which are not there? It is pretty clear how this step can be detrimental to us perceiving and living life first hand.





To a person who has probably never gone to church, your definition of the Christian God may be acceptable, and the rock example was an analogy. Plus, the big rock can still stand above and judge the smaller rocks, the two are not mutually exclusive.

My definition of God has not inhibited my experience of life if anything it has helped me appreciate the beauty and value of it. Have you ever used the word unicorn (something that is not there)?

If you don't believe in God, why would you come in here and try to disprove what I'm saying? Your arguments have disproved nothing and have only taken away from the topic at hand.


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: Icelander]
    #7791773 - 12/23/07 08:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Show me any reasonable evidence for a God and I will enter the debate.




There is no solid evidence for the existence of God.  How would one prove such a thing?  I could ask you to prove that there isn't a God (a task just as impossible).

I can give you my reasoning for why I believe that God exists.

I can see that the universe and life in general has a sort of knowledge built into it (life has an intrinsic instinct to have cells multiply... the universe has a similar intrinsic set of rules).  For me I see no way that this knowledge could exist without being put there by a higher form of intelligence.  This gives me reasonable 'proof' of the existence of God. 
That's my reasoning anyway. :shrug:


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: Icelander]
    #7791785 - 12/23/07 08:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Show me any reasonable evidence for a God and I will enter the debate.




When did this become a debate? The topic was started by someone who wanted to know whether people who believed in God saw God as something of which everything is part, or a higher intelligence.

It's not something we can all sit around debating for a few hours and come to an answer about that- it was a question, presumably posed to see what various people believe.

I'm not having a go at you here, I just think you missed the point of the thread.

To answer the initial question- I'm increasingly disliking the word God as it conjures images of an egotistical judge, but I certainly believe there is an all-pervasive energy field of pure positivity out of which everything is made, and of which everything is part. Somewhere in "Be Here Now", Richard Alpert gives a description of the Clear Light which pretty much sums up my personal views on spirituality.

I found it again just now, actually: "The entire cosmos, at every plane and in every form, is energy... The highest plane of form, from which all other planes are derived, is the Clear White Light: a homogeneous light field which includes everything. Every quantum of energy is interchangeable with every other one, and there is continuous change: continuous transformation of energy from one form to another. Thus everything in the universe is interrelated."

He goes on to state that Cosmic Consciousness, in which oneself has been transcended and the mind dissolved into the infinite, is oneness with everything, and that state is true spirituality. So I suppose I believe everything is part of this Cosmic Consciousness, constantly undergoing the illusion of separateness.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7791804 - 12/23/07 09:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

To a person who has probably never gone to church, your definition of the Christian God may be acceptable, and the rock example was an analogy. Plus, the big rock can still stand above and judge the smaller rocks, the two are not mutually exclusive.




The rock analogy doesn't work because it does not translate into human experience. :wink:
I don't know if a rock possesses any form of consciousness, but it most definitely doesn't have one that can be equated with human consciousness, therefore your entire argumentation fails. Try again.

Also I am going to have to ask you to stop making assumptions regarding the amount of times I'm going to church because we are not here to discuss personal matters.
The description of the Christian god that I gave was a little sarcastic but not erroneous.

Quote:

My definition of God has not inhibited my experience of life if anything it has helped me appreciate the beauty and value of it. Have you ever used the word unicorn (something that is not there)?




What does have to do with anything?

Quote:

If you don't believe in God, why would you come in here and try to disprove what I'm saying? Your arguments have disproved nothing and have only taken away from the topic at hand.




Because we're not in MRP we're in P&S. :lol:
Let's try to keep a lucid mind in here and resume to facts, shall we? :smile:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 2,494
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7791805 - 12/23/07 09:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EllisDSox said:
"The entire cosmos, at every plane and in every form, is energy... The highest plane of form, from which all other planes are derived, is the Clear White Light: a homogeneous light field which includes everything. Every quantum of energy is interchangeable with every other one, and there is continuous change: continuous transformation of energy from one form to another. Thus everything in the universe is interrelated."

He goes on to state that Cosmic Consciousness, in which oneself has been transcended and the mind dissolved into the infinite, is oneness with everything, and that state is true spirituality. So I suppose I believe everything is part of this Cosmic Consciousness, constantly undergoing the illusion of separateness. 




Beautiful quote, thank you!
:heart:


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7791869 - 12/23/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
The rock analogy doesn't work because it does not translate into human experience. :wink:
I don't know if a rock possesses any form of consciousness, but it most definitely doesn't have one that can be equated with human consciousness, therefore your entire argumentation fails. Try again.





The rock analogy was constructed only to explain how 'him' was used in my original description, because you didn't understand.  The rock doesn't need consciousness, it's an analogy.

I can't believe I have to explain this again.  Here is another analogy since you obviously still do not understand the point of the use 'him'. 

A cell divides, it is composed of nothing but its original matter but is in different parts.  If cells could talk one could say 'him' referring to the other but they are essentially the same.  If you still don't understand then I'm sorry I don't have the patients to explain it again. 



Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Also I am going to have to ask you to stop making assumptions regarding the amount of times I'm going to church because we are not here to discuss personal matters.
The description of the Christian god that I gave was a little sarcastic but not erroneous.





You gave a description that sounded like someone who had never been to church.  Like I said before the two are not mutually exclusive. 



Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

My definition of God has not inhibited my experience of life if anything it has helped me appreciate the beauty and value of it. Have you ever used the word unicorn (something that is not there)?




What does have to do with anything?





Its a word that describes an imaginary object but it doesn't inhibit your reality does it?  To you God is imaginary that's fine, just don't come and try to derail my thread because of it.



Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

If you don't believe in God, why would you come in here and try to disprove what I'm saying? Your arguments have disproved nothing and have only taken away from the topic at hand.




Because we're not in MRP we're in P&S. :lol:
Let's try to keep a lucid mind in here and resume to facts, shall we? :smile:




I wanted a spirited debate and criticism that's why I chose P&S.  What have I said that is not lucid or factual?  (Like we said God can not be proven or unproven so don't use that argument).

Please contribute to the original question or stop posting.


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7792134 - 12/23/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This gives me reasonable 'proof' of the existence of God.
That's my reasoning anyway.


Have you ever deeply considered that your "reasonable proof" may be nothing more then a pervasive cultural program that operates in you on a mostly subconscious level?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: Icelander]
    #7792166 - 12/23/07 11:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Religion has been corrupted by man. I have considered that it could be a cultural program designed to control. But my reasoning of why God exists still holds logical to me regardless of religious corruption by man. I can have a personal relationship with God without the counsel of a priest or a strictly controlled religion, removing myself from the corruption of religion by man (to as large of part as I can).

I gave my reasoning for the existence of God.

Whats your proof he doesn't exist?


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


Edited by JackthaTripper (01/07/08 08:48 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7792175 - 12/23/07 11:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I never said that a All Loving God that will send you to Hell if you don't obey (or any other concept of god) doesn't exist. How would I know?:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/23/07 11:17 AM)


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: Icelander]
    #7792181 - 12/23/07 11:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well you asked me to prove his existence so I assumed you didn't believe he existed.

Did my explanation of why I think he exists make sense? Do you believe he exists?

If so, what is your opinion on 'part/apart'?


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7792191 - 12/23/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The rock analogy was constructed only to explain how 'him' was used in my original description, because you didn't understand. The rock doesn't need consciousness, it's an analogy.





It's an analogy which doesn't connect to the human spirit and experience, therefor it is a flawed analogy. :grin:

Quote:

I can't believe I have to explain this again. Here is another analogy since you obviously still do not understand the point of the use 'him'.




Then I guess it will be very hard for you to believe me when I'll ask you to make yet another one. :smirk:

Quote:

A cell divides, it is composed of nothing but its original matter but is in different parts. If cells could talk one could say 'him' referring to the other but they are essentially the same. If you still don't understand then I'm sorry I don't have the patients to explain it again




It really looks like you don't have the "patients" because this analogy sucked too. :lol:
So, in your opinion, god is a cell which forms other cells (us) and so on.
How does this relate to a Christian god? A judging god who wants us to live by the standards he imposes and accept Jesus Christ as our savior? A god that created us in his image?
How do all that relate to the cell example? :strokebeard:

Quote:

You gave a description that sounded like someone who had never been to church. Like I said before the two are not mutually exclusive.




I am sorry but in order to make a point you need to EXPLAIN, saying that "it isn't so" doesn't prove that you're right.

Quote:

Its a word that describes an imaginary object but it doesn't inhibit your reality does it? To you God is imaginary that's fine, just don't come and try to derail my thread because of it.




Please leave all this bitching aside, this is no place for acting like a butt-hurt.
You are talking nonsense and I am asking you to sustain it, if you can. :hehehe:
If you can't then off with you to MRP. :bye:

Quote:

I wanted a spirited debate and criticism that's why I chose P&S. What have I said that is not lucid or factual? (Like we said God can not be proven or unproven so don't use that argument).




Of course it can. Based on the evidence we have until now. :yesnod:
I am not disproving god because you can't refute nothingness.
It's in your duty to bring evidence that he exists, since you are the one who proposed him as a subject of discussion and the entire discussion fails when it lacks of the main ingredient. :lol:

Quote:

Please contribute to the original question or stop posting.




I am sorry but you are not the dictator of this thread (even if you started it :bitch:) and I am FREE to address questions to ANY of your points and find new interpretations.
However, you are free to stop answering to the matters I discuss, and I am free to understand that you did that because you didn't have an answer. :smile:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
MSME!
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 2,494
Loc: Mind Exploration Flag
Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7792217 - 12/23/07 11:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You can think I stopped because I didn't have an answer but in reality I'm tired of talking in circles with you and have explained my position on all of those points already.  I'm not going to keep saying the same thing over and over again because you can't connect the dots.  Everyone else got it. 

Stick with the nudes they were your greatest contribution to the shroomery from what I've seen. 

I'm done with you :bye:


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7792254 - 12/23/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You can think I stopped because I didn't have an answer but in reality I'm tired of talking in circles with you and have explained my position on all of those points already. I'm not going to keep saying the same thing over and over again because you can't connect the dots. Everyone else got it.




How do you know that everyone else "got" it?
You can't really connect the inexistent dots. :smirk:

Quote:

Stick with the nudes they were your greatest contribution to the shroomery from what I've seen.




Ahh yes!
This is a clear case of a mentally impotent male who, when threatened, makes stupid sexual remarks to a female.
I wish you good luck with all that kid. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
MSME!
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 2,494
Loc: Mind Exploration Flag
Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7792300 - 12/23/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I know they got it because they gave intelligent responses to the question asked. They didn't need multiple explanations and analogies they just answered the question at hand.

And no this is the case of a stupid (but moderately good looking female) who tries to be intellectual and ends up looking like a dumbass.



Stop detracting from the thread!


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: JackthaTripper]
    #7792305 - 12/23/07 12:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This is not a thread, this is a joke of a thread :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
MSME!
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 2,494
Loc: Mind Exploration Flag
Re: God: Part or Apart? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7792314 - 12/23/07 12:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
This is not a thread, this is a joke of a thread :smirk:




Then why the FUCK are you here?

You must think things you don't understand are comical.


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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