Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineFraggin
Multi-Faceted
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 years, 3 days
Osmotic Pressure Thresholds.
    #7781834 - 12/20/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

At what point would cytolysis occur on mycelium while under hydrostatic pressure from a 'dunk-n-roll'.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSuperPuma
Automation Nut
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 97
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7783891 - 12/20/07 11:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCrake
Stranger


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 194
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7783908 - 12/20/07 11:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
At what point would cytolysis occur on mycelium while under hydrostatic pressure from a 'dunk-n-roll'.





That is a good question... What is your intent?


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMYSTIQUE
Say Hi to the elves for me.
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 1,764
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Crake]
    #7783914 - 12/20/07 11:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow depends on many factors and parameters. For example, an African Swallow would tend to travel at a different velocity than an European Swallow. Furthermore, their flight patterns are different, so their instantaneous velocity at a given point will almost always be different. However, technological advances have given way to being able to use swallows to transport husked coconuts across large distances, enabling us to use coconuts on a daily basis, provided we have a large contingent of willing swallows ready to make a nonstop convoy for X amount of time, or however long we wish. Swallows can also be modified, as attaching a 50 newton rocket propulsion system on a 1 kg swallow will result in an acceleration of 50 m/s(2), which is of course negating any air resistance, since swallows have been recorded as outer space fliers. I hope i cleared any doubts about this matter.


--------------------
Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS
http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary
I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt                         
Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt
Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet
Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat,

:onfire:DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!:onfire:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFraggin
Multi-Faceted
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 years, 3 days
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: SuperPuma]
    #7783918 - 12/20/07 11:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

ummmm.... 24 miles per hour, but why are you hijacking my thread?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNibin
Getting there
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: SuperPuma]
    #7783922 - 12/20/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

First of all, hydrostatic and osmotic pressure are different things.

What are you asking?

Will the water pressure from being submerged cause cytolysis?

or

Will the lower salt concentration of say distilled water used to dunk cause osmotic imbalance and cytolysis?

in either case the answer is no, as in a) you can't submerge deep enough to create that kind of pressure and b) because mycelium has regulation functions relating to this.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFraggin
Multi-Faceted
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 years, 3 days
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7783965 - 12/20/07 11:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
At what point would cytolysis occur on mycelium while under hydrostatic pressure from a 'dunk-n-roll'?




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSuperPuma
Automation Nut
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 97
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7784034 - 12/20/07 11:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Bahahaha, yes!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCrake
Stranger


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 194
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: SuperPuma]
    #7784182 - 12/21/07 12:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Fraggin, your questions have me asking questions. I understand your query, yet I am curious as to why you are asking this... what is you intent?


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCrake
Stranger


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 194
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Crake]
    #7784187 - 12/21/07 12:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

... sigh, if I had to answer this I'd have to ask first what depth you intend to dunk at. If I have any grasp at all of the mechanics involved here I would assume that there is a depth factor involved, not so much a time parameter, perhaps both. In fact you'd involve both factors in different instances, or just depth in others. Again, allow me to ask... WHY do you ask?

:doggull:


--------------------
MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSuperPuma
Automation Nut
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 97
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Crake]
    #7784219 - 12/21/07 01:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Seriously now, are you planning on taking these cakes with you on your way to the bottom of your chilled, 100 ft, non-chlorinated pool?

Doesn't common sense say you don't need any kind of pressure to saturate cakes to their max capacity? The need for that data is absolutely confounding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineveda_sticks
Cultivator
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: SuperPuma]
    #7784404 - 12/21/07 03:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

RR has always suggested that dunking should be done under some pressure,.

Thats why when you watch his videos the are kept submerged with a plate so there is a little water pressure which helps rehydrate the cake.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 5,543
Loc: The Aether
Last seen: 5 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7784431 - 12/21/07 03:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Gosh, I'm going to feel mighty stupid if I'm wrong about this, but I think the only reason I put something on top of my cakes is to keep them completely submerged under water. I have yet to come across a cake that didn't want to float! I thought it was as simple as that!

Quote:


RR has always suggested that dunking should be done under some pressure,.



I think it's because it takes a little opposing pressure to counteract the buoyancy effect produced by trapped air and less dense vermiculite. Once again. I'm feeling a little stupid.


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSuperPuma
Automation Nut
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 97
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7784686 - 12/21/07 07:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Shroomy 1 has is it completely right.

Veda, not quite.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFraggin
Multi-Faceted
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 years, 3 days
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: SuperPuma]
    #7784806 - 12/21/07 08:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The PRIMARY reason for submersing a cake in water at 100% colonization ,or between flushes, is NOT to rehydrate the substrate.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelaten
Stranger

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 78
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7784840 - 12/21/07 08:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think it is, though.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSuperPuma
Automation Nut
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 97
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: laten]
    #7784948 - 12/21/07 09:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Fraggin, would you care to offer a PRIMARY reason to dunking in order to replace the PRIMARY reason you've so gracefully ushered out the door?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFraggin
Multi-Faceted
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 years, 3 days
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: SuperPuma]
    #7784970 - 12/21/07 09:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SuperPuma said:
Fraggin, would you care to offer a PRIMARY reason to dunking in order to replace the PRIMARY reason you've so gracefully ushered out the door?




The PRIMARY reason for dunking a fully colonized substrate is to rehydrate the mycelial cells.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeman113
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 85
Loc: il
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7785007 - 12/21/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You are right.

Are u going to add pressure to a vessel with water and the cake to hydrate faster or creating more pressure though the deepth of the cake the water to decrease dunk time?

Its a interesting idea.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFraggin
Multi-Faceted
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 years, 3 days
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: eman113]
    #7785033 - 12/21/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was considering retrofitting a spare PC with a schraeder valve to use as a pressurized dunking vessel to see if it would decrease the time needed for a dunk as well as pass soluable and/or semi-soluable nutrients across the cell membranes.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeman113
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 85
Loc: il
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7785315 - 12/21/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The only advise I could give is to try at a low pressure and increase untill the cakes start to bruise, Or wait for better advise.

If this can cut the dunk times. It would allow someone with 30 or 40 trays to dunk without trying to find room to put them. Pop 2 or 3 in a pressure vessel and clean trays while hydrating, take out to dry while the next 2 or 3 go in.its hell of an idea.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeman113
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 85
Loc: il
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7785377 - 12/21/07 12:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

To see if the nutrients are used you can use a e.c. Meter before and after.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: eman113]
    #7785400 - 12/21/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Osmosis through cell walls really only requires a pressure differential. It doesn't need to be much. We weigh down the cakes to submerge them, but in so doing, it also puts them under a bit of pressure, because of the weight of the water above. This pressure is more than enough to hydrate the cells over a 24 hour period. Whether increasing the pressure to shorten the time span of dunking would be good or bad remains a subject for experimentation. I've dunked substrate blocks in the very bottom of a 5 gallon bucket, and the blocks at the bottom of the bucket definitely hydrate faster than the ones near the top. I've never tried to dunk at a higher pressure than that though.

It seems I remember someone at another board a few years ago dunking in vacutainers under a vacuum, and it was much faster. I guess the theory was to draw all the air out of the cells, making it easier(less pressure inside the cell) for the water to get in. I've never tried this, so experiment away if you're inclined. Keep us posted.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 5,543
Loc: The Aether
Last seen: 5 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: Fraggin]
    #7785725 - 12/21/07 02:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

OHHHHHHHHH, I see where this is going now. Hmm. Interesting Fraggin. Let me know how it goes. Seems like a wee bit too much work for cakes. I am interested in the process though. keep us updated.


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNibin
Getting there
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Osmotic Pressure Thresholds. [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7785806 - 12/21/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You can paint your bedroom by flooding the room full of paint, but isn't it easier to just go at it with a paintbrush?

What I mean by this is... why? Why on earth would you want to re-hydrate your cakes under pressure? Is it that awful to have to wait for 24h?

If this is just something you want to do for the heck of it, for experimentations sake, great for you, but I really doubt it will become a standard dunking system.

It sounds quite crazy scientist like, muahahahahahaha

Anyway, water absorption through biological membranes is controlled by trans-membrane proteins called aquaporins.

There are both regulated and non regulated kinds. the absorbtion rate and resistante to osmotic pressure depends on (among others) which kinds, and in what amounts, the mycelial cell membranes contain these proteins.

But this is all under investigation atm, as it is very recent and only been discovered in the last decade.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* pressure cooker or canner? llamaherder 2,085 11 01/11/06 01:31 PM
by blueferret
* 1 pint Jar - Pressure cooker time + spore ammount SDP 1,279 4 01/20/06 06:48 AM
by blackout
* any chance of killing endospores with higher pressure? waixingren 2,009 11 01/19/06 03:14 AM
by blackout
* Using Bleach Instead Of Pressure Cooking...
( 1 2 all )
cubeladd 1,910 21 10/17/06 08:03 PM
by RogerRabbit
* pressure cooker
( 1 2 3 all )
newcultivator 5,757 42 09/07/04 12:50 AM
by seatrip
* Pressure Cooker Go BOOM?
( 1 2 all )
Skikid16 12,687 27 09/29/02 03:15 AM
by alienated
* can i make a pressure cooker? Anonymous 3,764 18 01/30/03 04:33 AM
by blackout
* steam temperature / pressure relation ohmatic 1,927 18 01/13/05 11:12 AM
by tripndicular

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
1,212 topic views. 17 members, 148 guests and 39 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.035 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 14 queries.