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InvisibleMisterStripey
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Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan?
    #7780708 - 12/20/07 08:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hi all,

I'm new to mycology (and shroomery) and have a flowhood question (so please don't be too harsh if it ends up being stupid). Most flowhood designs found on this and similar sites look like boxes of purified air that blows onto an open space. I have found plans for a setup that is sort of a compromise between a flowhood and a glove box:



(Image from Make Magazine, Volume 7; a link to the beginning of the article can be found here)

The basic idea is that you take a standard HEPA (or HEPA-type) air purifier (can be bought at any big box store) and put it in a hole cut into the bottom of a plastic box and then sealed with silicone caulk. This creates cleaned, positive air pressure inside of the box. The box is washed, bleached, HEPA purifier turned on, rubbed down with alcohol, etc... to ensure that the surfaces are sanitized and then work is done inside the box.

So my question is: is this a good idea? Are there any pitfalls/dangers of doing it this way? Any ideas on how to improve the design?

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: MisterStripey]
    #7780715 - 12/20/07 08:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

get the best hepa filter u can find as if its say 99.7% of airbornes ur better off with just a glovebox


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coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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InvisibleMisterStripey
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: flavoraid]
    #7780932 - 12/20/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

flavoraid said:
get the best hepa filter u can find as if its say 99.7% of airbornes ur better off with just a glovebox




A "true" HEPA gets 99.97% of airborne particles (anything bigger that 0.3 micrometers). The HEPA-type filters get 99% (usually anything bigger than 2 micrometers). With a relatively strong air flow and a relatively small box, would a HEPA-type purifier be enough?


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Invisibled4a2n0k
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: MisterStripey]
    #7780980 - 12/20/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MisterStripey said:
With a relatively strong air flow and a relatively small box, would a HEPA-type purifier be enough?




No, enough will get through a 99% effective filter to ruin your work. Even with 99.97% true HEPA it's still a good idea to pre-filter with a good furnace filter. It will add years of life to your expensive HEPA.

Don't cheap out on your flow hood. It is one piece of equipment, that you must design and build well. If you don't your going to waste ALL of the money you spent on it, and be VERY disappointed.


--------------------
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: MisterStripey]
    #7780982 - 12/20/07 10:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

a still air box with some air sanitizer would be enough


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: anarchOi]
    #7781017 - 12/20/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You don't combine gloveboxes and flow hoods. In addition, those cheap department store hepa filters do nothing for mycology. I have a storage shed full of them. They flow way too much air, they let way too much contaminants through, they leak around the edges, and most importantly, they don't produce laminar flow.

You want a laminar flow hood, or a still air glovebox. Lots of new growers try all sorts of hepa filter/fan combos on their gloveboxes, but after a few months, they've removed them and sealed up the holes, because a glovebox works best with still air.
RR


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7781203 - 12/20/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I never thought I would be doing this but,RR I have to disagree with you on this:
Quote:

Lots of new growers try all sorts of hepa filter/fan combos on their gloveboxes, but after a few months, they've removed them and sealed up the holes, because a glovebox works best with still air.




I made a glove-box to whit I installed a computer fan(There is a pic floating around somewhere of my box) and that was a couple years back, to this day I have not had 1 jar or petri dish contam on me. I'm not saying it can't(sterile procedures bark at me, haha)but, with my techniques it won't--ever!
The purpose of the fan is similar to a flow hood(no it's not lamanar flow)but it blows clean filtered air into the box(very slowly-1.5-3 volts dc) and out through the gap in the lid taking any airborne endospores with it.
Now RR you can pounce at any time and I won't mind,hahahaha, but a glove box, made correctly, using forced air flow, can and will keep out any and all contams. It has for me for years.
Sorry, but here is some pics of my one and only, 4 year old glovebox that has helped me through my mycology attempts with 100% success!




Total cost=$0.00 --I already had this stuff laying around.

Building a glove-box such as this one is the cheapest route for a beginner to take and be safe.

A glove box will push air out of the box when you insert your hands into the gloves and the box and it will suck in air when you remove your hands from the gloves-causing unclean air and contams to enter through the crack in the lid-the only way around this is to install a fan that blows filtered air into the box and out the lid so when you put your hands in you are not causing air to be forced out of the box and when you remove your hands the fan will not allow for air to be sucked in because it is blowing air into the box preventing the air from being sucked in when you remove your hands.
Sorry for rambling on, bro:cool:
Just had to add my two cents.


Doc


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: doc34]
    #7781262 - 12/20/07 11:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sorry, but here is some pics of my one and only, 4 year old glovebox that has helped me through my mycology attempts with 100% success!




No problem disagreeing. However, with a sterile lab, tyvek sleeves, a laminar flow hood and many years of experience, I've had nowhere near 100% success. I've probably thrown out a few hundred petri dishes over the last several years. Of course, I've used it several tens of thousands of times with outdoor fruits that entered the lab heavily contaminated.

Here's the deal: A computer fan will not draw air through a hepa filter. None. Even if piece of tyvek is used, or a synthetic filter disk, a computer fan will not develop the static pressure required to move air through the filter. It will simply cavitate and stir the air around, but not draw it through the filter. In fact, when I PC jars with tyvek filters, there's a vacuum in the jars for several hours afterwards, as the air slowly enters the jar through the fiter. If it takes a few hours to move enough air to fill a jar, think of how many hours it would take to fill a rubbermaid tote. I'm sure in effect, what you have is a still air glovebox.

In addition, gloveboxes need not be sterile. I don't use lysol, oust or anything else to clean mine but soap and water. Still air is what makes gloveboxes work, whether or not that still air is sterile or not.

Anytime something is moving in a glovebox, it is swirling around the contaminants within, thus increasing the risk that those contaminants will enter your sterile media. Good luck to all.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7781406 - 12/20/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I really didn't want to do all of this typing bro, your killing me,haha.
Quote:

I'm sure in effect, what you have is a still air glovebox.





Far from it-My glove box is a forced air box-I don't know how to prove this to you, but it is definately not a 'still-air' box.
Quote:

Here's the deal: A computer fan will not draw air through a hepa filter. None. Even if piece of tyvek is used, or a synthetic filter disk, a computer fan will not develop the static pressure required to move air through the filter.



I don't use a Hepa filter for one thing-I use a coffe can cut in half filled with poly-fill and covered with 4 coffee filters, then covered with 4 dust masks. Hold a flame from a lighter in front of the fan inside the box and the air will blow out the flame.Hold it 5 inches away and there is barely a flicker or two of the flame. Fill the box with smoke and within one minute it is clear, and you can see the smoke exiting the box through the crack in the lid. Now, that is not a 'still-air' glove box.
Quote:

In fact, when I PC jars with tyvek filters, there's a vacuum in the jars for several hours afterwards, as the air slowly enters the jar through the fiter.


yep, seen that myself, but, like I said, I don't use a hepa filter or tyvek, just what I explained and it works perfectly.
Quote:

However, with a sterile lab, tyvek sleeves, a laminar flow hood and many years of experience, I've had nowhere near 100% success. I've probably thrown out a few hundred petri dishes over the last several years. Of course, I've used it several tens of thousands of times with outdoor fruits that entered the lab heavily contaminated.



I might have mislead some people-I have not had a jar or petri contam on me from using this box-I have had contams(who hasn't)but, only when I didn't use the box.
Quote:

Anytime something is moving in a glovebox, it is swirling around the contaminants within, thus increasing the risk that those contaminants will enter your sterile media. Good luck to all.




But when using the fan you are forcing whatever contams are in the box out through the lid(given the fact that you let the box set while the fan is running for about 15 minutes to ensure that the box is clean.) I do spray the filter with lysol before hand and allow it to set to disperse the fumes.
Yeah, different strokes for different folks. I am just trying to express that it doesn't take a Lamanar-Flow hood with a hepa filter to ensure that you are contam free and that glove boxes work great for the cost.

BTW, RR, I like your experiments-got me trying some funky stuff!!

Anyway-If you can afford to build/buy a flow hood(lamanar)DOOOO  IT!!!!! But, if you are redneck like me and can't afford it, build a glovebox(forced air/still air)They do work and work really well.

Did I just hyjack dudes thread?
Sorry bro!:thumbup:

Tis the season, tsk, tsk!

Doc


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InvisibleMisterStripey
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: doc34]
    #7783693 - 12/20/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

RR and Doc: Thank you for the enlightening debate; it has helped to clear up the confusion from information overload. (I forgot how much it sucks to be a noob :smile: )

Doc: Did you use a potentiometer or just a different voltage power supply on the computer fan? When you said that the air goes out of the gap in the lid, you aren't referring to the seams of the plastic window, but to the edges of the lid, right?

Follow up question for anyone: Is $150 a reasonable price for a "real" glovebox (used, well maintained, from a scientific laboratory)? I found one the other day and passed it over because it was kind of bulky and, even though it was professional quality, it didn't seem $140 dollars better than what I could make on my own.


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Invisibled4a2n0k
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: MisterStripey]
    #7783723 - 12/20/07 10:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Building your own anything is almost always cheaper. More satisfying too!


--------------------
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.


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OfflinePoisonedV
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: MisterStripey]
    #7783727 - 12/20/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The point of using a flowhood is to have a more open workspace. That in box is pointless. it's a sterile/clean/glove box. Make one like Doc said. Just make sure you are able to replace the filters in one way or another (my mistake on my first air flowing glovebox :blush:)


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Lazy...


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: MisterStripey]
    #7784506 - 12/21/07 04:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Doc: Did you use a potentiometer or just a different voltage power supply on the computer fan? When you said that the air goes out of the gap in the lid, you aren't referring to the seams of the plastic window, but to the edges of the lid, right?




I use a universal DC adapter that has the voltage regulator switch so you can adjust the speed from spinning the fan real slow(1.5v) to an all out huricane(12v), i usually set mine at 3v,sometimes 1.5v.
Yes, my filter is removable so I can clean it or replace it.
Doc


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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Under $100 Flowhood: Is this a good plan? [Re: doc34]
    #7784546 - 12/21/07 04:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The only thing I have to add to this thread is that I too had questions about building a cheap Flow hood. I posted my thread on how I built it, got lots and lots of constructive criticism, and in the end when it was all said and done the proof was in the pudding. I followed RR's advice on that thread, and to this day, I have to say that it was the single most important investment in my hobby. The Flow hood is in my spare bedroom, (THE LAB), running 24/7. I still follow all the proper sterile procedures while working, but now I have literally been freed from the confines of a glove box. I walk around in open space and sit in front of the "work area". Reach for this, reach for that....what a feeling! Best of all Zero contamination.
Here is that thread if you'd like to check it out.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7349699#7349699


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AMU Q&A thread.


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