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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Zahid]
    #774118 - 07/24/02 05:13 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Religious people live an average of 7 years longer then non-religious people.
Such as the religious Bosnian Christians killing the religious Bosnian Muslims?

Such as the religious Irish Catholic Christians killing the religious Irish Protestant Christians?

Such as the religious Palestinians killing the religious Israelis?

And vice versa?

I guess those heretics and Witches have a shorter life span BECAUSE of tolerant Christians...

Please give a link to your study of longer life for the religious.

Religious people hardly suffer from depression or anxiety,
Please post a link or study to back this up. Not true in my limited experience. If depression is indeed a form a mental illness due to serotonin imbalance, then this is completely false.

...and many people are able to escape an addiction (drugs, alcohol) by becoming a religious person.
And many overcome it by getting into sports, career, marriage, etc. Again, post your references.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Swami]
    #774312 - 07/24/02 06:21 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

my God's better than your God's neener neener neener!
i am rubber you are glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!!!


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Peace and Love to all!

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Offlinewhy
journeyman
Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 50
Last seen: 21 years, 7 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Zahid]
    #775476 - 07/25/02 08:18 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I think you're the one harbouring the self supporting delusion

maybe, but I think mandlebrot had some good points.

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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Zahid]
    #775536 - 07/25/02 08:50 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

If a man should use his intellect, he would have no need for clerics. Relying on the theological interpretations of another and refusing to question unprovable notions proclaimed in religious texts is the sign of a lazy mind.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Autonomous]
    #776034 - 07/25/02 11:57 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

man me rasta's, chill about what or how you should worship your god, and just worship him. i bet he's dying to hear from you.


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Peace and Love to all!

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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Swami]
    #776453 - 07/25/02 03:34 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

People (Christians, Jews, Muslims) do no represent what God is. Nor do they represent the religion that they follow, especially when both you and I know these faiths condemn random unprovoked acts of violence. Unfortunately, some people pervert religion to carry out horrific deeds and suggest it had the blessing of a greater power. Until you completely understand the Gospel, the Torah, the Qur'aan, (reading the holy texts, making analysis), your opinion is only that of an outside observer. The reality is that religion is getting bigger, and bigger, the more people, as you know, the grater chance of a bad seed.

Autonomous:
If a man should use his intellect, he would have no need for clerics. Relying on the theological interpretations of another and refusing to question unprovable notions proclaimed in religious texts is the sign of a lazy mind.

You should know that the world is a place of great deception. Disbelief is a result of deception. Same thing with what suicide bombers believe, is a deception. When Christian knights slaughtered Arab Muslims in Palestine centuries ago, it was a deception - they thought what they were doing was right. You'll have no plea of ignorance. Breaking through deception is a sign of spiritual strength, and spiritual intelligence. In faith you'll find not so smart believers (some of them might blow themselves up to kill non-believers) and very intelligent believers who are often mystics. In a-theistic people, you'll find not so smart non believers who simply bash faith, but you'll also find smart non believers who attempt to explain the psychology of every believer in the world with a theory or two, or even three.


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Edited by Zahid (07/25/02 03:50 PM)

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Zahid]
    #777119 - 07/25/02 08:21 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

You should know that the world is a place of great deception. Disbelief is a result of deception....

{{to the tune of toMAYto toMAHto}}
"You say DE-ception... I say decep-TION...
Let's call the whole thing off..."


Breaking through deception is a sign of spiritual strength, and spiritual intelligence.

It's easy to say that pushing aside the wool is a virtue, but actually doing so takes much more persistence. It's too bad they're so many lazy people around.

In a-theistic people, you'll find not so smart non believers who simply bash faith, but you'll also find smart non believers who attempt to explain the psychology of every believer in the world with a theory or two, or even three.

Believers in ATHEISM?? Isn't this a contradiction?
They say they DON'T BELIEVE... and you turn that into "they believe that they don't believe." Whatever.

As for the psychology comment... seems like you're a little biased in your appraisal of atheists.
"or simply bash faith"
- sounds negative (that's okay, you're applying some sort of dichotomy, NEXT)

"who attempt to explain the psychology of every believer in the world with a theory or two, or even three."
- also sounds negative
"attempt" implies that their position can't work, in principle (since we're dealing with principles and so forth).
"even" belittles their "attempts" even further.

If you're going to go the black&white route (simple dichotomization as you've done here), then maybe you should treat all "belief" systems with the same courtesy as you treat your own (and the other Abrahamic faiths).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Sclorch]
    #777251 - 07/25/02 10:04 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

hey braa, atheism means no god, not don't believe. and is a belief in itself.
but peace...
zahid my brother, even though our religions have fought for centuries, (catholics and muslims) i want you to know that i respect you very very deeply for the way you explain things and your faith. btw, did you ever catch it back in 2000 when the pope in an attempt at peace, went and prayed along side muslim brothers in their mosk's? he even kissed a qu'ran in a gesture of respect. i thought that was coo' man.


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Peace and Love to all!

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Sclorch]
    #777409 - 07/25/02 11:11 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

. Formal Anti-Theism

Had the Theist merely to face a blank Atheistic denial of God's existence, his task would he comparatively a light one. Formal dogmatic Atheism is self-refuting, and has never de facto won the reasoned assent of any considerable number of men. Nor can Polytheism, however easily it may take hold of the popular imagination, ever satisfy the mind of a philosopher. But there are several varieties of what may be described as virtual Atheism which cannot be dismissed so summarily.

There is the Agnosticism, for instance, of Herbert Spencer, which, while admitting the rational necessity of postulating the Absolute or Unconditioned behind the relative and conditioned objects of our knowledge declares that Absolute to be altogether unknowable, to be in fact the Unknowable, about which without being guilty of contradiction we can predicate nothing at all, except perhaps that It exists; and there are other types of Agnosticism.

Then again there is Pantheism in an almost endless variety of forms, all of which, however, may be logically reduced to the three following types:

the purely materialistic, which, making matter the only reality, would explain life by mechanics and chemistry, reduce abstract thought to the level of an organic process deny any higher ultimate moral value to the Ten Commandments than to Newton's law of gravitation, and, finally, identify God Himself with the universe thus interpreted (see MATERIALISM; MONISM);
the purely idealistic, which, choosing the contrary alternative, would make mind the only reality, convert the material universe into an idea, and identify God with this all-embracing mind or idea, conceived as eternally evolving itself into passing phases or expressions of being and attaining self-consciousness in the souls of men; and
the combined materialistic-idealistic, which tries to steer a middle course and without sacrificing mind to matter or matter to mind, would conceive the existing universe, with which God is identified, as some sort of "double-faced" single entity.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!

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Offlinemandlebrot
Stranger
Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 5
Last seen: 21 years, 8 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Zahid]
    #778031 - 07/26/02 08:07 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I said:

At no point does Christian mythology connect with reality

Zahid said:

I think you're the one harbouring the self supporting delusion. Your ideals have no connection with the reality of the consciousness behind faith.

Without resort to heresy, explain the "reality of the consciousness behind faith" for the meaning of the atonement.

I'm not asking you to describe what is ineffable, merely to tell me how the symbol links to reality.

Monistic mysticism and denial of the unique divinity of christ are both heresy by the way.

I offer the same challenge to whiterastahippie.

or are you full of shit?

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: mandlebrot]
    #778126 - 07/26/02 08:39 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

or are you full of shit?

Take it easy there tiger. False dilemmas of that sort will surely deafen your listener. There could be another explanation......


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineReeferMan
member

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 122
Loc: wonderland
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Sclorch]
    #778182 - 07/26/02 09:14 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

You are all here bitching at eachother and all saying the same thing i dont get it. If reality is different for eveybody what is the point of arguing then. Why not just except that my beleifs are different from yours and yours are different from everybody elses. I am not targeting anyone and i am not trying to preach anything. Who is to say what is right and wrong. Just have your beliefs, stand by them and dont judge others for having different ones. Its that easy. This world would be a better place once we all learned to see thta we are all fuckin different and that is what makes it so special. Instead of fighting about the pope and god and jesus just except the fact that for some these people are the top of their lives. For others they mean nothing more than chips and salsa. But why should anyone be condemed for what they believe. Thats the question i pose to all of you? We have enough people trying to keep us from smoking kaya and eating shrooms, is it right to fight amongst ourselves when we are the only ones that feel ganja and shrooms and whatever else are okay for the world. Lets try to be a community that is tolerant of others rather than one that argues about the belief system each of us holds. Love is supreme and that is all that matters. No matter what religon you are i know that they all teach love and happiness of those around you is priority over everything else.

PEACE BE THE JOURNEY

"One Love"- BOB MARLEY


--------------------
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions.

~Confucius (551-479 B.C.) Confucian Analects

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: ReeferMan]
    #778245 - 07/26/02 09:49 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

hmmmm....

I think we've hit this point before reeferman. I think your intentions are admirable, but certain belief systems do not agree with your "let things be, just be cool" attitude. So, I guess you're arguing FOR your stance AGAINST their stance??
See the problem?

As for the community issue...
I think we ARE a rather tolerant community. Most posts are quite civil. The fact that we're even bothering to interface with eachother says something about our community. If we were so intolerant, every post might end with one of those brilliant conversation stoppers such as "Fuck you, shut up!"


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: ReeferMan]
    #778263 - 07/26/02 09:57 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

reefer man, you my braa. why this fussin' and a fightin'? i wanna know man. now it is good to share your perspective of reality with others gently, just for entertainmetns sake and, who knows, when you sahre, somebody may start to follow your way of thinking.
it is when brothers get violent with each other that is bad. so harsh. so combative. no need for this my friends. no need at all.
and mandlebrot my braa. i am sorry to say i refuse your challenge. for i will have nothing to do with arguements and challenges. i sometimes get sucked into them. sometimes for days at a time. but whenever i sit back and think. i realize i don't want to be fightin' or fussin'. so no. i deny your challenge. now if you have brotherly questions for me man, i will answer them as best i can to my knowledge.
peace man.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!

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OfflineReeferMan
member

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 122
Loc: wonderland
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Sclorch]
    #778326 - 07/26/02 10:30 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Sclorch i get what you are saying man. I know we hit this point everytime an argument breaks out in the shroomery. I am just saying it is hard for me to understand how we can fight amongst ourselves and use such violent words to eachother when the only people that accept our actions in life are right here in the shroomery. If i went out and told everybody i use ganja for my religon or use shrooms to expand my sub concious mind they would laugh at me and tell me i am crazy. It just gets to me because we are all here because we all do have something in common at the shroomery and fighting about shit we cant control gets us nowhere and only starts to degrade the only community that we can go for questions and answers about the things we care about concerning drugs anyway. This is the only group of people i have found yet that except me for my habits and i am happy for that. It may be a failed attempt to create a little peace here in the forum. But nothing ever got accomplished by sitting back and just watching others. Anyway back to the point of this post. It really is sad to see a religon that so many depend on like Catholosim and see how it has gone downhill. Like everything in life i think the leaders of that religon need to change some things and soon before a lot of people lose their faith and the only thing theuy belive in. Peace!!! Thanks for the reply to my first post too.

"One Love" BOB MARLEY


--------------------
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions.

~Confucius (551-479 B.C.) Confucian Analects

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: ReeferMan]
    #778382 - 07/26/02 11:12 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

reefer man, if that was so true i recommend my brother, a deeper study of the catholic faith. for are you not aware that people ar joining the church in record numbers? more people are joining the church now than they have in hundreds of years. there are so many converts it's unreal (i'm one). this whole thread is based on assumptions about the church. not facts.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: Sclorch]
    #778500 - 07/26/02 12:29 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

ToMAYto is OBVIOUSLY the "correct" pronunciation and I will fight anyone who says differently!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePaleE
journeyman

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Who are you? And why do ...
Last seen: 21 years, 5 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: erectronik]
    #778540 - 07/26/02 12:58 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Clergy...Lawyers...
pretty much the same thing...
Kinda like some oh-so-insucure-God-loves us-and-you-better-listen-to-our-wisdom kinda shit...
I prefer the company of junkies and hookers and poor people...
I think Christ did too (interestingly enough)...

They have strength in common commitment to 'the hive', and have eliminated the need for certain patterns of conscious thought...that's a way of connecting to the all i guess...

Thx,
the pale e

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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: PaleE]
    #779175 - 07/26/02 07:54 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

not always true about the hive thing. did you grow up on the streets braa? it's been my experience that people on the streets want to fuck you over as fast as they can to gain a higher personal...whatever it is they are trying to gain. but my experience may not be genuine. where did you grow up that you experienced honest junkies with a hive sense? i would like to go there.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!

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Offlinewhy
journeyman
Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 50
Last seen: 21 years, 7 months
Re: The Bible and the clergy [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #779444 - 07/27/02 12:18 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

and mandlebrot my braa. i am sorry to say i refuse your challenge. for i will have nothing to do with arguements and challenges. i sometimes get sucked into them. sometimes for days at a time. but whenever i sit back and think. i realize i don't want to be fightin' or fussin'. so no. i deny your challenge.

I apologize for asking you for a rational exposition of the central tenet of your own religion.

how the fuck did I get 3 mushrooms?


Edited by why (07/27/02 12:21 AM)

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