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InvisibleIcelander
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Primal unity, eternally suffering.
    #7777297 - 12/19/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't necessarily believe this POV but I'm not afraid to entertain it as a possibility. For if it is true then that is what we will all have to live with. The survivalist is prepared for any eventuality to the best of their ability.

"....the truly existent primal unity, eternally suffering and contradictory...needs the rapturous vision, the pleasurable illusion, for its continuous redemption. And we, completely wrapped up in this illusion and composed of it, are compelled to consider this illusion as the truly nonexistent---i.e., as a perpetual becoming in time, space and causality --- in other words, as empirical reality." -Nietzsche

So lets say life is impersonal more or less red in tooth and claw and much of existence is painful. Lets just suspend disbelief for a moment and drop your current belief system. Now if the above was true how would you make your life work for you, how would you live and conduct yourself, could you find meaning?

Nietzsche had an answer. What's yours?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7777453 - 12/19/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'd find meaning in things that have happened in the past and project it into the future.

Past knowledge and experience equals meaning of things to come.

You can take your future as if you already knew what will happen.

Remember the past and never forfeit the future - Droz

Peace,
Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Droz]
    #7777530 - 12/19/07 12:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds like living in the past. What happens to the now? What if the past wasn't good?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7777548 - 12/19/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hopefully you learn from your mistakes. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7777828 - 12/19/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It's hard for me to understand Nietzsche even in german now, also I did read Zarathustra and some parts of his work, but noiw I can hardly understand it in english even worse anymore.
Look at Nitzsche's miserable life and death and then reconsider his thoughts :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Droz]
    #7777854 - 12/19/07 02:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Droz said:
Hopefully you learn from your mistakes. :rolleyes:




Whatever.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7777897 - 12/19/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I find meaning in knowing that I am an irreplaceable human being; that to someone, to something, I am so unique a match and necessity that the significance of my existence is immeasurable. Even if at times the importance of my existence isn't presently visible, I will know that it is only with time that I'll learn of what I am here for.

As far as conduct goes, I'd continue doing what I am currently and will always be doing: pursuing the truth. Without such a relentless search for truth, I would think I must know the truth, and thus become complacent, indolent, and proud.

Will I ever find the absolute, incontrovertible truth? Maybe not. But this isn't the point. The point is that I want to know that by the end of my life I have fully exhausted my mind to its core by my insatiable drive to exert towards the truth. I want to die knowing that I came as damn close to the truth of this life as I possibly could have.

"The true value of a man is not determined by his possession, supposed or real, of Truth, but rather by his sincere exertion to get to the Truth. It is not possession of the Truth, but rather the pursuit of Truth by which he extends his powers and in which his ever-growing perfectibility is to be found. Possession makes one passive, indolent, and proud. If God were to hold all Truth concealed in his right hand, and in his left only the steady and diligent drive for Truth, albeit with the proviso that I would always and forever err in the process, and to offer me the choice, I would with all humility take the left hand."
--Gotthold Lessing


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7778235 - 12/19/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hopefully I wouldn't take it too personally.. then I would try and create memories with friends and family and live as if this life I was living was the most important thing to ever happen. If the past was not allowing me to do this, I would have to go talk to someone so I could understand and move on. Hopefully things would get resolved and I'd be content, even if the world was often painful and my life was not important to anything or anyone besides myself and maybe a few lives I had impacted.


--------------------


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7778685 - 12/19/07 06:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'd try to have fun, and "get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes down in flames".

To my best ability I would look into the suffering to discover and uproot as many weeds as possible. At the same time this realization would leave me liberated if I could fully embrace and accept it. Knowing for certain that everything will come to an end fills me with a tranquility. But I don't.

Sometimes during life I have taken a decision to end it. Every time I took this decision a great liberation came over me and a deep peace filled me. It left me feeling so good that I changed my mind.

When we accept that there is no hope we are free. Then hope sneaks in the backdoor, and life is trouble again.

Finally a chance to post these lyrics:


Hey mama, when you leave
Don't leave a thing behind
I don't want nothin'
I can't use nothin'


Take care into the hall
And if you see my friends
Tell them I'm fine
Not using nothin'


Almost burned out my eyes
Threw my ears down to the floor
I didn't see nothin'
I didn't hear nothin'


I stood there like a block of stone
Knowin' all I had to know
And nothin' more
Man, that's nothin'


As brothers our troubles are
Locked in each others arms
And you better pray
They never find you


Your back ain't strong enough
For burdens doublefold
They'd crush you down
Down into nothin'


Being born is going blind
And buying down a thousand times
To echoes strung
On pure temptation


Sorrow and solitude
These are the precious things
And the only words
That are worth rememberin'


Townes


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7780192 - 12/20/07 01:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

My answer is Nietzsche's answer... is that cheating?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7780491 - 12/20/07 05:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds intriguing, but there's nothing rapturous about end-stage tertiary syphillis and nothing transcendental about how the great thinker got the disease.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7780590 - 12/20/07 07:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

didn't humanity already answer that question and create god?

i would think I too would strive to get closer to something light and warm to take away the senseless pain


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7780612 - 12/20/07 07:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

my only problem with nietzsche is that his wordiness and word choice goes over my head

maybe i'll someday be able to finish and partially understand thus spoke zarathustra


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: demiu5]
    #7780689 - 12/20/07 07:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I looked around and saw what Neitzsche was jiving at.

I have always felt that one can transcend conflict and polarities. Just takes a fulcrum to be studied, or some real intelligence.

Unfortunately people put off the finding of a fulcrum until it's too late for them to learn a response in time. And people kill their intelligent by not understanding, and not allowing them a forum of their peers who also possess ability.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7780925 - 12/20/07 09:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I find meaning in knowing that I am an irreplaceable human being; that to someone, to something, I am so unique a match and necessity that the significance of my existence is immeasurable. Even if at times the importance of my existence isn't presently visible, I will know that it is only with time that I'll learn of what I am here for.


So you really can't do what I asked in my post? You have to make meaning for yourself at all costs. The above post of yours is not different from most religion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: dorkus]
    #7780928 - 12/20/07 09:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dorkus said:
I'd try to have fun, and "get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes down in flames".

To my best ability I would look into the suffering to discover and uproot as many weeds as possible. At the same time this realization would leave me liberated if I could fully embrace and accept it. Knowing for certain that everything will come to an end fills me with a tranquility. But I don't.

Sometimes during life I have taken a decision to end it. Every time I took this decision a great liberation came over me and a deep peace filled me. It left me feeling so good that I changed my mind.

When we accept that there is no hope we are free. Then hope sneaks in the backdoor, and life is trouble again.

Finally a chance to post these lyrics:


Hey mama, when you leave
Don't leave a thing behind
I don't want nothin'
I can't use nothin'


Take care into the hall
And if you see my friends
Tell them I'm fine
Not using nothin'


Almost burned out my eyes
Threw my ears down to the floor
I didn't see nothin'
I didn't hear nothin'


I stood there like a block of stone
Knowin' all I had to know
And nothin' more
Man, that's nothin'


As brothers our troubles are
Locked in each others arms
And you better pray
They never find you


Your back ain't strong enough
For burdens doublefold
They'd crush you down
Down into nothin'


Being born is going blind
And buying down a thousand times
To echoes strung
On pure temptation


Sorrow and solitude
These are the precious things
And the only words
That are worth rememberin'


Townes




Sounds pretty healthy to me.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: demiu5]
    #7780937 - 12/20/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

demius said:
my only problem with nietzsche is that his wordiness and word choice goes over my head

maybe i'll someday be able to finish and partially understand thus spoke zarathustra




Check out The Simpsons and Philosophy-The D'oh! of Homer by William Irwin, Mark Conard and Aeon Skoble I never really grokked Nietzsche until I read this really fun and interesting book. (especially if you liked the Simpsons)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: eve69]
    #7780943 - 12/20/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Well, I looked around and saw what Nietzsche was jiving at.

I have always felt that one can transcend conflict and polarities. Just takes a fulcrum to be studied, or some real intelligence.

Unfortunately people put off the finding of a fulcrum until it's too late for them to learn a response in time. And people kill their intelligent by not understanding, and not allowing them a forum of their peers who also possess ability.





If all is as Nietzsche thought which I don't believe completely then in the end the only solution is to make a work of art out of your experience. In other words find a way to make meaning for yourself out of your own efforts. For myself I agree. I find meaning only in the pursuit of my truth and my pleasure and I don't for a moment believe it's "real".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: Icelander]
    #7781041 - 12/20/07 10:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't mean it like that.

Practically I am of the Shakta-Dakini-Kundalini-Dzogchen-School. What that means I don't know. But it's something like this. I subscribe to the notion that things are, as the poet spoke, 'Red in tooth and claw' as that is obvious. Those words are Tennyson's, I believe. From 'In Memoriam,' Not Neitzsche's. However, on the flipside I also subscribe to a line from a song which goes, "We all have a weakness that digs within and leads us to each other." (Incubus - Dig). Now how those two work together is anyone's guess.

Beyond them however I find concilation and peace in the unconditonal freedom of the non-intellectual mind when it is free from self regulating and when it is afloat in the sea of nowness without concern.

Strangely, I have developed the ability to experience the two, or three things simultaneously. That is, lack of specific concern, fight and flight, and acceptance of mutuality of desire all as compatible. But then I suppose it takes a certain largess or generosity of spirit to do that. As in, I don't own the ocean, so I would never say, "Get off my fucking wave Dude." However, due to limitations of good sets at 5 AM, I will push to get my wave, to the limit of good sense, but not beyond. And if nothing else, I will relax and not be goal oriented and just appreciate the perfection of life which might be conspicuous, sometimes in the total absense of any goal orientation whatsoever.

I suppose the theme for what I am getting at is the ability to change gears.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Primal unity, eternally suffering. [Re: eve69]
    #7781171 - 12/20/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

" However, due to limitations of good sets at 5 AM, I will push to get my wave, to the limit of good sense, but not beyond. And if nothing else, I will relax and not be goal oriented and just appreciate the perfection of life which might be conspicuous, sometimes in the total absense of any goal orientation whatsoever.

This is I believe what Nietzsche meant. Making of ones life a personal work of art.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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