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LacunalSense
Strange


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 13
Last seen: 16 years, 5 days
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Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman?
#7777120 - 12/19/07 10:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I told a friend that I was going to buy some hostilis and rue, and he told me that it is disrespectful to dose without a shaman.
I think this is totally absurd.
You're thoughts?
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Overclock22
Here, There andBack Again



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 208
Loc: NY
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: LacunalSense]
#7777134 - 12/19/07 10:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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totally absurd, though with aya you really shouldn't do it so much as just to trip. I think if you want to do aya you should want something more out of it cause the trip itself is absurd
-------------------- He did not laugh as his eyes stopped in awareness of the earth around him. His face was like a law of nature-a thing one could not question, alter or implore. It had high cheekbones over gaunt, hollow cheeks; gray eyes, cold and steady; a contemptuous mouth, shut tight, the mouth of an executioner or a saint. If you wake up at a different time in a different place, can you wake up a different person? Cf. A.C. Doyle "I'll rise above this, you can't keep me down, for I am Divine, and I know it all too well."
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OneMoreRobot3021



Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: LacunalSense]
#7777154 - 12/19/07 10:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The rituals, beliefs, and contexts of ayahuasca usage and psychedelic drug usage in general simply won't ever be the same for the 21st century westerner (or easterner, or african, or whatever) as it will be for the ayahuasqueros...In fact, I think it's disrespectful to try and build up some sort of a sham of a ceremony that you think approximates what it might be for real. There are plenty of "shamans for hire" here in NYC doing just that...loft parties where people all dose ayahuasca together and the shaman is chanting at you while picking songs off his Powerbook laptop in iTunes...
I say create your own rituals...be your own shaman. Psychedelics empower the 21st century individual to make his own rituals and religions as he sees fit.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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EllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: LacunalSense]
#7777166 - 12/19/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's utter crap. How do you think ayahuasca first came into use? There wasn't an eternally living shaman waiting next to the plants to guide whoever realised their potential.
I've felt the Ayahuasca presence guide me as a shaman before. I closed my eyes, meditated, and saw the face of a shaman and he spoke to me in a language I couldn't understand, then showed me the tree of life. As long as you're intelligent in your use, and prepared for an utterly mind shattering experience, you will be fine.
Who exactly does your friend think you would be disrespecting? He's full of it, to be honest. You get a lot of strange opinions about ayahuasca. Some people get very purist about it and refuse to use anything but a specific mix of two plants, calling anything else disrespectful.
I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, because I'm not very creative with my sayings- as long as you're not damaging yourself or anyone else, nor taking foolish risks, you are not being disrespectful. Just accept the ayahuasca presence and let it guide you. It's one psychedelic that very much feels like an internal presence and not just a drug.
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
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OneMoreRobot3021



Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: EllisDSox]
#7777191 - 12/19/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
EllisDSox said: Who exactly does your friend think you would be disrespecting? He's full of it, to be honest. You get a lot of strange opinions about ayahuasca. Some people get very purist about it and refuse to use anything but a specific mix of two plants, calling anything else disrespectful.
Yeah the people over at the ayahuasca forums flip if you talk about pharmahuasca..
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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EllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
#7777207 - 12/19/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah the people over at the ayahuasca forums flip if you talk about pharmahuasca..
It upsets me to see that users of psychedelics can be so ridiculous. While I feel the purge can play an important part in the experience, there are times you'd just rather be without it, and many people will never try ayahuasca simply for fear of the taste and nausea.
With pharmahuasca, you can introduce the experience to a wider base of people, and also experiment with higher doses without making your stomach feel like it's being eaten by demons. Puritan muppets. It makes about as much sense as one day deciding that only blotter is acceptable and liquid acid is a sin.
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
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OneMoreRobot3021



Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: EllisDSox]
#7777222 - 12/19/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Absolutely in agreement with you. I've yet to try either the ayahuasca brew or the pharmahuasca combo - but I have the supplies to do the latter. I probably will experience pharmahuasca prior to having a true ayahuasca experience, with that foul brew, but I definitely intend on doing both. The only thing is that when I think about taking ayahuasca as a brew, I can't possibly do it in a city. That's something I would rent a secluded cabin for. But pharmashuasca I could do here.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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EllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
#7777235 - 12/19/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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At least find a park. You're not going to want to be seeing buildings and suchlike. I live in one of the biggest cities in the world and have done ayahuasca many times here. Some vomiting in rather inappropriate places has occured, though.
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
#7777294 - 12/19/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Agreed with everyone! Would it be regressive to say that those people on the Ayahuasca forums are actually being regressive themselves by consolodating the use of a "medicine" rather than expanding its use?
Argghhh!! The paradox of acceptance! I must accept some people can't accept.
Stupid-cupid paradoxes and their logical rhythmic brain-gasms they give me.
So I guess I am at a road, named Robert Frost Lane, on the corner of Don Juan Ave. I gotta take a road to go down. One road is tradition, and the other is Fuck Tradtion (colloquial terms the elves give me) Seeing that Screwing Tradition IS a tradition, I'll take the Robert Frost Lane and go the road currently less travelled by and take the Pharmahuasca.
Damn Paradoxes. Damn Elves. I have it together now.
--------------------
"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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LacunalSense
Strange


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 13
Last seen: 16 years, 5 days
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: EllisDSox]
#7777316 - 12/19/07 11:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
EllisDSox said: That's utter crap. How do you think ayahuasca first came into use?
That was my original thought.
The eternal galactic shaman initiated the original human shamans, so that only they could hold the true power of guiding others through the realm of ayahuasca. Those who ventured alone would end up lost for eternity.
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: LacunalSense]
#7777347 - 12/19/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You must be an Admin. on Ayahuasca.net...only they know truths as great as that!
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"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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symbiotic
insighted


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 105
Loc: ok,nm,co,ca,or
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: Apollyphelion]
#7777374 - 12/19/07 11:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is a shaman(a) not someone that can literally turn into an animal? I know they are clairvoyant and gain insight from the earth on medicine and free lost souls and things like that but i read somewhere the other day they can turn into animals? The reason I am asking is because I think that happened to me when I ate about 10.5 grams of cubensis...I remember coming back into this dream aka "reality" with hair in my mouth! I woke up in only my shirt and boxers in the freezing cold woods having no idea what the fuck had happened to me. Has anyone gone back to observe previous life experiences/ especially trips with more clarity after they happened while on the same drug on a later date?
-------------------- The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.
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LacunalSense
Strange


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 13
Last seen: 16 years, 5 days
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: Apollyphelion]
#7777379 - 12/19/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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you mean cyber-shaman.
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LacunalSense
Strange


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 13
Last seen: 16 years, 5 days
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: symbiotic]
#7777385 - 12/19/07 11:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
symbiotic said: Is a shaman(a) not someone that can literally turn into an animal? I know they are clairvoyant and gain insight from the earth on medicine and free lost souls and things like that but i read somewhere the other day they can turn into animals? The reason I am asking is because I think that happened to me when I ate about 10.5 grams of cubensis...I remember coming back into this dream aka "reality" with hair in my mouth! I woke up in only my shirt and boxers in the freezing cold woods having no idea what the fuck had happened to me. Has anyone gone back to observe previous life experiences/ especially trips with more clarity after they happened while on the same drug on a later date?
Reminds me of Altered States...
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Disrespectful to use ayahuasca without a shaman? [Re: LacunalSense]
#7777411 - 12/19/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LacunalSense said: you mean cyber-shaman.
Sounds like ShadowRun to me!
--------------------
"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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