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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now *DELETED* [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #8060901 - 02/23/08 03:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by EntheogenicPeace

Reason for deletion: ---


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8060956 - 02/23/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I've demonstrated more common-sense and open-mindedness in a single post than the entirety of yours on this topic.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8061051 - 02/23/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:


P.S. Plants don't use CO2 for transpiration; they use it for photosynthesis.




You're right, I used a word I had incorrectly remembered.
Quote:



Quote:

And I am still all atremble at the anticipation that you will at some point provide me with any proof that there is a causal relationship, pointing in one direction and one direction only, between CO2 and increased global temperature. Because you sure seem to be twitching all over the place without once getting to the point.




That there is a relationship between greenhouse gas concentration & temperature is elementary science. Even if there were no ice cores (& other supportive evidence) to document atmospheric conditions going back hundreds of thousands of years, that wouldn't change this basic fact.




And you continue to keep dancing away from the causality arrow. Since you seem to be spending a fair amount of time at this I can only assume that it probably doesn't exist. Don't feel bad, nobody else can find it either.

Look, the concentration of CO2 is so low that it defies belief that it drives warming. Water vapor is much more important as a greenhouse gas, as is methane. Add that to the well documented solar effect and the discrepancy between satellite measures and surface measures and you really have to be some kind of believer type NOT to be skeptical. Add the money being made by panic mongers and it is quite clear that doubt is very much in order. My bet is that in ten years this will all be a comic anecdote.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8061097 - 02/23/08 03:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

That there is a relationship between greenhouse gas concentration & temperature is elementary science.




And that correlation does not equal causation is even more fundamental. Besides, temperature leads CO2. More elementary science: when the oceans warm, their ability to hold gasses like CO2 decreases, buuuut I'm sure you already knew that. Stop believing everything your college professors and despotic political heroes say.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: Viveka]
    #8061135 - 02/23/08 04:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'm going to assume that was intended for E_P.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8061149 - 02/23/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes indeedy. Poor postage on my part.


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: Viveka]
    #8061714 - 02/23/08 05:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So that's it. You agree that we need a super world war to kill off most of the human race so we can slow down global warming.


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Invisiblexdaveman
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #8062136 - 02/23/08 07:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i am not going to lie i didnt read this hole topic but i have a few things to add for the people who believe co2 is the reason why we have a climate change.

if it is co2 causing this why are mars and jupiters moons ice caps melting?

how come when we first settled here there was the "mini ice age" was it because of co2?

did you know plants can use 5 times as much co2 than is in our atmosphere?

talk to any history teacher/major they will tell you the earth works in cycles.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now *DELETED* [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #8062247 - 02/23/08 08:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by EntheogenicPeace

Reason for deletion: ---


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8063352 - 02/24/08 05:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Disregarding? You are too funny. This thread came about strictly because the doom-and-gloomers are disregarding other opinions and evidence.

Someday you'll realize that your professors would be doing other things were they truly talented. Someday you'll realize being a college student grants you no special wisdom.

Someday you'll learn the meaning of consensus and overwhelming majority.

I hope it doesn't come as a too big a shock.

Perhaps after a few more gloom-and-doom crisis's have come and gone you'll see the value of an open mind.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now *DELETED* [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #8063796 - 02/24/08 10:10 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by EntheogenicPeace

Reason for deletion: ---


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8063996 - 02/24/08 11:09 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The consensus is not all that. What did you do, average the predictions, to get that number? They can't even forecast the weather for a week, much less the number of big storms in a season and you expect people to just swallow this stuff. Computer models are NOT science. Science is observation, hypothesis and testing. THEN you get a conclusion. They can't even establish that CO2 levels drive warming. They are just guessing. Some of them are guessing based on a model in their head that makes them believe that doing something about nothing is somehow without cost. It is not. Anyway, here's some things to chew on:
Quote:


December 16, 2007
22 UN climate models flunk
James Lewis
Prediction is hard, especially about the future, said Neils Bohr. So why not try to predict the past? A study in the Royal Metereological Society journal did just that, focusing on the best available evidence of the past 25 years. Measuring instruments have improved immensely in accuracy and coverage in recent decades, using satellites, weather balloons and surface sensors.

Alas, all 22 math models use by the United Nations failed to predict the last twenty-five years.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/12/22_un_climate_models_flunk.html




Quote:


The IPCC’s position that increased CO2 is the primary cause of global warming is not supported by the temperature data. In fact, strong evidence exists that disproves the IPCC’s scientific position. This UPDATED paper and Excel spreadsheet show that variations in atmospheric CO2 concentration lag (occur after) variations in Earth’s Surface Temperature by ~9 months. The IPCC states that increasing atmospheric CO2 is the primary cause of global warming - in effect, the IPCC states that the future is causing the past. The IPCC’s core scientific conclusion is illogical and false.
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/carbon_dioxide_in_not_the_primary_cause_of_global_warming_the_future_can_no/





There's lots more if you care to look. Or you can roll like this guy:

Quote:

But don't take my word for it. Watch "An Inconvenient Truth." If you are still unconvinced, watch it again.

James Evans is pastor of Auburn First Baptist Church. He may be reached at faithmatters@mindspring.com.
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/OPINION0101/802220365/1012/OPINION





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Offlineboomer q
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8068445 - 02/25/08 12:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

even if theres not complete consensus in the scientific community, the fact that over 30 scientific societies and academies of science including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries agree that global warming is caused mainly by human activity should at least suggest that theres something to the notion, and that its not just a guess. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy)


im just not sure what people think the motivations of scientists who advocate climate change are? whats wrong with developing alternative sources of energy? oil is going to run out, thats a fact, and so is coal... so why not try to wean our dependence on finite resources? shouldnt try to innovate rather than just continue with business as usual, isnt what that country is supposed to be good at? innovating?


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I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: boomer q]
    #8068798 - 02/25/08 02:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I am all for conservation. At a market based price. I am all for developing alternative energy. At a market based price. Except for fusion. THAT needs to be funded by giant governments. I am in no way interested in doing anything at any expense at all based on utterly unproven and to me nonsensical notions that fossil fuel burning is a problem for warming. Meanwhile, people are burning a whole lot more wood in that supposedly environment friendly retardland called Vermont. And that's a lot worse.


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Invisiblexdaveman
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: boomer q]
    #8069438 - 02/25/08 05:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you cant use something from wiki for an argument. for all we know you wrote. you cant trust information you get off of that site.


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: xdaveman]
    #8070514 - 02/25/08 10:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ghats true anybody can edit Wiki but the fact stands that what he said was correct.


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Offlinebodynotdead
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: Rebirtha]
    #8071488 - 02/26/08 06:56 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

global warming can be effectively dealt with only by "an authoritarian form of government.


the kinds of laws and regulations that activists do call for will hand a comparably frightening degree of control over our lives to politicians and environmentalist bureaucrats.

In one form or another, every minute of our every day involves the emission of carbon dioxide, the primary greenhouse gas claimed to be the cause of climate change. Every moment we spend running our computers, lighting our homes, powering countless labor-saving appliances, driving to work or school or anywhere else--we are using industrial-scale energy to make our lives better.

But global-warming activists want our use of the fossil fuels that provide the major source of that energy to be strictly controlled by the government and severely curtailed, no matter the harm that causes.

Despite the constant assertion that global-warming science is 'settled,' it is far from certain that we face any sort of catastrophic global emergency. But in the name of 'saving the world' from unproven threats, such activists want to impose a draconian regimen of taxes, laws, regulations and controls that would affect the minutest details of our existence. Their solution to their projected 'environmental disaster' is to impose an actual economic disaster by restricting the energy that powers our civilization and subjecting its use to severe political control.


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"absolute power corrupts absolutely".
Lord Acton,


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: bodynotdead]
    #8072144 - 02/26/08 11:28 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodynotdead said:
the kinds of laws and regulations that activists do call for will hand a comparably frightening degree of control over our lives to politicians and environmentalist bureaucrats.

In one form or another, every minute of our every day involves the emission of carbon dioxide, the primary greenhouse gas claimed to be the cause of climate change. Every moment we spend running our computers, lighting our homes, powering countless labor-saving appliances, driving to work or school or anywhere else--we are using industrial-scale energy to make our lives better.

But global-warming activists want our use of the fossil fuels that provide the major source of that energy to be strictly controlled by the government and severely curtailed, no matter the harm that causes.

Despite the constant assertion that global-warming science is 'settled,' it is far from certain that we face any sort of catastrophic global emergency. But in the name of 'saving the world' from unproven threats, such activists want to impose a draconian regimen of taxes, laws, regulations and controls that would affect the minutest details of our existence. Their solution to their projected 'environmental disaster' is to impose an actual economic disaster by restricting the energy that powers our civilization and subjecting its use to severe political control.




Carbon Capping is killing us all! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #8073196 - 02/26/08 04:02 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I know it's a blog.... so don't waste time on that.

Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Michael Asher (Blog) - February 26, 2008 12:55 PM

World Temperatures according to the Hadley Center for Climate Prediction. Note the steep drop over the last year.
Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

Meteorologist Anthony Watts compiled the results of all the sources. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to erase nearly all the global warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year time. For all sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.

Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.

Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/26/08 04:05 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Lots of ice cubes now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #8073275 - 02/26/08 04:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

> World Temperatures according to the Hadley Center for Climate Prediction. Note the steep drop over the last year.

Thank God for Al. He saved us just in time.

> Carbon Capping is killing us all!

No, but it is a very clever way to inflate energy prices.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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