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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8091311 - 03/01/08 07:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Picked another one.

Kaplan, Lewis D. (1960). "The Influence of Carbon Dioxide Variation on the Atmospheric Heat Balance." Tellus 12: 204-208.

Another google search turns up exactly two hits neither of which is the article. It does send me to this:

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/bibdate.htm

A rather extensive bibliography that doesn't provide any proof that CO2 drives global warming.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8091316 - 03/01/08 07:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I told you exactly where to find each one.

For Kaplan's article, go to a library that carries tellus, get the 12th issue, and look at page 204-208.

I'm sorry, but "google" won't save your ass against real science.

Of course, you probably think you know what science is.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091323 - 03/01/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
LOL! So now you are calling me out and saying it doesnt exist? What bullshit.

You really do not read the basic climatology literature, huh. Its like trying to learn about atomic theory by reading, say, intelligent design articles. It doesnt work that way! Plass' "Carbon Dioxide and the Climate." is a VERY well established journal report that links CO2 and increasing temperatures. It was one of the first to show how the physics behind CO2 absorbtion connected to a warming trend observed by world weather stations.

Go to a fucking library man. Any big library should have it. Fuck, do an academic search premier for it.

Or are you not in college? Do you even have a degree?




I asked for a link. You failed. It is not in fact available. Nor is the other one I checked. I am long out of college. Are you incapable of finding one single article to link?


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091325 - 03/01/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

By the way, I hope you know that real scientific journal articles.. they dont work like CNN or Fox news articles. You actually have to purchase them. You can't just "Google this shit".


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091327 - 03/01/08 07:43 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Johnm, I did exactly what was asked. Zappa asked for a PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC REPORT, not an article. The problem with AGW-deniers these days is that they do NOT read basic scientific literature. They rely, once again, upon news articles with spin. That is not how science works. I know you WISH that was how science works, but its not. Just you saying that you have NOT read Tyndall and Arrhenius' discoveries (things that are taught in virtually every climatology class), shows that you are in no position whatsoever to be debating the issue. It shows you have no understanding of the basic physics behind climatology.




whether I understand climatology isn't the issue here

as I said, the titles belie the notion that their is proof of causality within those articles

and I'm using articles to refer to written things, not news clips. yes, I'm interested in the evidence

And I have not claimed to hold a position here on the merits of the central argument (that anthropogenic global warming exists and is signifigant), I was only responding to what point zappa made, that proof is hard to come by in this arena, and causality is probably impossible to conclusively demonstrate.

As for your identification of the problem with AGW deniers, and your presumption that I am one of them and that I don't understand how science works, and that I don't read journals... I don't think I've given you any cause to make those determinations. Besides the issue is what conclusions are justifiable, not what you think I know about science. The individual isn't important here.


So if you could, once again, identify one article addressing zappa's point, preferably in the last ten years, it would be appreciated. Its not easy to find stuff from 50 years ago electronically unless its a major journal.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091339 - 03/01/08 07:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I'm saying that I'm not giving you an article, I am giving you peer-reviewed research reports. They are not "articles." They pass through a vigerous process of peer review. Each of those does exactly what you asked, it links CO2 to the heating of the earth. Just because you do not understand the physics, and you demand a mainstream media article, rather than a SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL article, shows that you are in no position to even think about debating the issue. Come back when you actually stick to science (not what you search on google) and debate me. The link between CO2 and heating has long since been observed and is settled in the scientific community.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091341 - 03/01/08 07:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Even 50 year old ones from a journal like "Nature"? Surely there must be something you can link to. Do you read more than the generic bibliography and HOPE it says what you want it to?


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091346 - 03/01/08 07:47 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I identified the proper articles. That's like you asking for proof of relativity and discounting einstein's writings. These guys were the forefront of their generation, they were the ones who discovered the discoveries upon which much of modern physics, chemistry, and climatology are based on. By the way, at least 6 of those up there are from after 1975.

You got what you asked for. Face it, you were just exposed as someone who is debating without having read the proper scientific literature.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091358 - 03/01/08 07:48 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

You can research those articles. I did my job, you can do yours. If you're not willing to read the scientific literature, that's not my problem. Read up on the authors, by the way, you'll learn their discoveries were not limited to climatology. I'm sorry that peer reviewed articles dont work the way you want them to, I can't just send you a link to the article. They are owned by the Journal's publishers. Its the same reason I cant send a book to you at no cost to either of us.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091367 - 03/01/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

You didn't honestly think there were no articles that link CO2 to warming, did you? Do you really think basic scientific institutions are just pulling it out of their ass.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (03/01/08 07:50 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091371 - 03/01/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

hey guys, what's going on in here?!


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Invisiblejoker_man
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091382 - 03/01/08 07:53 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

zappaisgod clearly has his own agenda. Asking him to educate himself about global warming is ludicrous. He is going to continue seeing things the way he wants to see them. It's a rather convenient way to live.

Furthermore, zappaisgod, you aren't going to find "proof" that CO2 drives global warming. There are only theories, my man. And to that end, most climatologists agree that there is some sort of link between anthropogenic C02 production and climate change. You don't have a cent of credibility.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: joker_man]
    #8091390 - 03/01/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Convinient way to live, yes, but its an insult to academic integrity. I know how they work though. He'll probably find one of the journal articles (out of 30), post a criticism of it that he found on google, and act like that disproves the 29 other articles. Yes, each of these articles DID have criticisms, so do all peer-reviewed journal articles. That is the essence of peer review. The important part though, is that they made it through. Scientific theory relies upon body of evidence, and the body of evidence points to CO2.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: joker_man]
    #8091412 - 03/01/08 08:04 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Well, that's what I asked for. I asked for a link to an article that establishes that CO2 concentration drives global warming. If there are any they should not be so hard for you to link since this is such a popular scam. You provided exactly zero links, I doubt you read any of those articles and now you are admitting that they don't satisfy my request anyway.

Thanks, you keep making my point. My agenda is not to see gullible nitwits driven to useless panic over NOTHING. Like alar. Google that: alar scare. You'll actually get a result.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091421 - 03/01/08 08:06 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
and the body of evidence points to CO2.




No it doesn't. It points to solar activity.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: joker_man]
    #8091424 - 03/01/08 08:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

zappaisgod clearly has his own agenda. Asking him to educate himself about global warming is ludicrous. He is going to continue seeing things the way he wants to see them. It's a rather convenient way to live.

I see something different. I see Zap asking for ONE SINGLE FRIGGIN DOCUMENT written and peer reviewed by scientists that shows a causal link. He's getting back a hodgepodge of assorted links that don't say a thing about a CAUSAL CONNECTION.

Quote:

Zap says: Are you incapable of finding one single article to link?




What he's asking for here should be simple to find if things are as dire as supernovasky says they are. One direct link to a properly reviewed document showing a CAUSAL CONNECTION shouldn't be that hard to find.

Why are you guys having so much trouble with this?


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8091434 - 03/01/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Here is what zappa said:

Quote:

Will one of you please provide me with a peer reviewed scientific report that establishes a causal link leading from CO2 increases to increased global temperature? Thank you in advance.




Does it say "please provide me with a link"?

No. It didnt ask for a web-link to some article.

It asked for a peer reviewed scientific report that establishes a causal link from CO2 to increased global temperature.

You can go back and revise, whatever you feel like doing.

If you haven't read Tyndall though and honestly try to debate this with a climatologist, you'll get laughed at.

So how about you. Post one scientific peer-reviwed journal article in a major peer-reviewed journal (not some tiny ass one in New Zealand, I'm talking about Nature.. Climatology...etc) that discredits or disproves CO2's link to global warming. Lets hold you to the same standards, because I showed you the exact ADDRESS in the journal to get the articles.

If you're asking for me to physically send you these articles, I will not. I'm not giving you anything, you're going to have to actually do your own research *gasp*.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Diploid]
    #8091446 - 03/01/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

So you too believe that science is done by trading web-links and lawn-chair research. That's too bad. Honestly, I'm not going to debate you the way you want to debate. It's not done that way. There are documents, and I showed where to get them. They are accessible by any scientific institution, and by most universities. What you see on google and on the news? That is science that has been filtered for your consumption. Spun.

Read the actual journal articles. Or are you arguing that Tyndall, Arrhenius, and Kaplan did NOT make such a connection in their papers? If that is your argument, then you lose by default, easily proven by simply reading the papers :smile:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091453 - 03/01/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:


It asked for a peer reviewed scientific report that establishes a causal link from CO2 to increased global temperature.






Well, where's the article? I'm still waiting. You copying a bibliography somebody else compiled about stuff you probably haven't read from 50 year old speculation (Plass and Calender, I've heard of both of them) with what seems to you to be germane titles aint up to it.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8091455 - 03/01/08 08:15 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

you're going to have to actually do your own research

You're the one making the claim of a causal link. It's up to the claimant to provide evidence of what he claims, not the other way around.

This is Debate 101.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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