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InvisibleBridgeburner
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jars started to colonize, then stopped
    #7776514 - 12/19/07 05:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i don't know what's wrong with them, they're ordinary pf-tek style 200-250ml jars. some jars show first signs of myc, then that's all they've done. just a small patch of myc that has stopped and possibly withered, like it's been damaged. the colonizing temperature is around 26C-28C and it's not dried out because i see some condensation on the walls of the jars. this is frustrating, i don't know what i'm doing wrong. the jars were cool when inocculated.


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7776520 - 12/19/07 05:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

is the foil still on top of the jars?


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Offline2play
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Registered: 08/20/07
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: blood4blood]
    #7776521 - 12/19/07 05:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

what a stupid question.


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my theory:

why do we have tolerance? because mother nature created us and shrooms, and she decides when we can see into other realms! and by the sounds of it that one every 2 weeks!


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Invisibleshaggydogman
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Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7776523 - 12/19/07 05:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

28C (82F) is probably the top end of the temps you want to incubate at.

How long has it been since inoculation?
Do your jars have gas exchange?


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Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy
Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: 2play] * 1
    #7776529 - 12/19/07 05:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

2play said:
what a stupid question.





you wouldnt believe how many people come on here complaining that their jars stalled and come to find out they still have the foil on their jars which will cause an excessive co2 build up and cause the jars to stall. so you can STFU!


Edited by blood4blood (12/19/07 05:37 AM)


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: blood4blood]
    #7776531 - 12/19/07 05:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

the shoulderless jars i use had a plastic lid on them originally and i replaced them with a few layers of foil itself. this has worked fine before. after inoculation it gets air from the inoc holes.


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Offlineronue
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Registered: 05/27/07
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7776532 - 12/19/07 05:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I had the same problem few years ago with the PF tek, and I repeated the whole thing, got the same shit again - myc starts colonising, then stops, then nothing happens for ages.

After opening one of the jars my nostrils got the beautiful but totally unwanted smell of yeast! I opened all the jars, and the whole room was smelling like a brewery! Under microscope the yeast looked like budding yeast i.e.Saccharomyces spp., and it was apparent that they were not contams introduced by the inoculations of the jars, they were growing from the middle of the jar. It became apparent that this bloody yeast can survive autoclaving (really frustrating if you ask me). Since then I always have yeast contamination in PF tek.

I just moved to grain inoculation and casing, my problem got solved once and for all.

I suggest you open a jar and look for contams, then repeat everything or move to grain.


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OfflineNebula
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7776545 - 12/19/07 06:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
i don't know what's wrong with them, they're ordinary pf-tek style 200-250ml jars. some jars show first signs of myc, then that's all they've done. just a small patch of myc that has stopped and possibly withered, like it's been damaged. the colonizing temperature is around 26C-28C and it's not dried out because i see some condensation on the walls of the jars. this is frustrating, i don't know what i'm doing wrong. the jars were cool when inocculated.



Possible reasons are:
- lack of gas exchange. If there's too much C02 in your jar, then the growth of your myc will stall. So how did you implement gas exchange?
- contamination: does it smell bad?
- incorrect balance of ingredients of the substrate. Your substrate should consist of 1 part of water, 1 part of BRF and 2 part of verm. If there's (e.g.) too much water in your substrate, then growth will be considerably slower, as I've experienced :grin:


Edited by Nebula (12/19/07 01:42 PM)


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Offlinewhereismymind
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Nebula]
    #7776562 - 12/19/07 06:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

lack of fresh air exchange in the jar ? wow ..


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In my own summer , there is no crowd in the streets and no sun...


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OfflineNebula
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7776574 - 12/19/07 06:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
the shoulderless jars i use had a plastic lid on them originally and i replaced them with a few layers of foil itself. this has worked fine before. after inoculation it gets air from the inoc holes.



The 4 small holes should provide sufficient gas exchange according to this tek
http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek.
Personally I would use a filter jar like these:
http://www.azarius.net/shrooms/growing_accessories/filterbox/
or create a large hole in the lid and put some filter cotton in the hole. This will create a large surface for gas exchange.


Edited by Nebula (12/19/07 06:52 AM)


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: whereismymind]
    #7776576 - 12/19/07 06:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i thin the foils let in more air than the lids so that can't be it, at least not at the beginning of the colonization and i haven't had yeast before so that's not it imo...

it doesn't smell bad, smells like wet verm and brf. for a 200ml jar my friend used 133ml of verm, added enough water and then added brf.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7776581 - 12/19/07 06:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Please don't mix up terms.

Gas exchange is what is required in jars, LCs etc

FAE or Fresh Air Exchange is required for the fruiting chamber.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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OfflineNebula
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7776584 - 12/19/07 06:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Then it's gotta be the incorrect balance imho. Did you use a measuring cup?


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Nebula]
    #7776592 - 12/19/07 06:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yeah imo i measured it exactly. although i made the flour myself with a grinder.

next time i'll just use bottled water and buy a new grinder that grinds rice into a fine powder.


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7777101 - 12/19/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How many inoculation holes are in your lid? Some people say use 4. It speeds up colonization. I used to use 4 around the sides. Now I do one on each side, and one in the center.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Fraggin]
    #7777598 - 12/19/07 01:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yeah four. but that's not the issue, it has colonized fine before but not this time, no matter who many inoc points i would make, i fear. there are 2 jars that grow moderately well and are half colonized but about a dozen are stalled.


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7777633 - 12/19/07 01:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

then if your sure its not an excessive build up of c02 the only other reason imo would be that the mycelium ran out of food to consume.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: blood4blood]
    #7777711 - 12/19/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think thats unlikley since the ingredients were measured exactly, i dont thing the grinded brown rice is the problem either, my first jars i grinded using a pepper grinder (damn that was painfull) i have also heard of others having coarsly ground rice work (its not ideal though)

The inoc holes are plenty for gas exchange, tinfoil lids work, that is what i have been using on 4 succesfull grows.

Reasons for stalling are usually.

Overly wet or overly dry substrate
Substrate compacted
insufficiant gas exchange
Contamination.

Other than that it may be genetics,

whats your temp in F, no higher than 80-81,

other than that im really stuck on this one.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7777716 - 12/19/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

bury the contents of the jars under a layer of straw outside and start over.


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OfflineNebula
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Re: jars started to colonize, then stopped [Re: blood4blood]
    #7777719 - 12/19/07 01:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

For how many weeks has it been stalled? It took 4-5 weeks to colonize most of my jars.
One jar took 6 weeks. I thought the myc stalled in this jar, but then it suddenly started to grow, albeit very slowly. It took 2 weeks to colonize a small part of the substrate in this jar. These things are not exceptional, as I found out after reading several threads. And it can sometimes take a lot longer than 6 weeks.
IOW, be patient, don't give up too quickly.


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