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OfflineVeter
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A somewhat taboo question
    #7773302 - 12/18/07 10:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So, from my understanding, perlite is clearly not a vermiculite replacement. I understand the differences: Perlite has more surface area and is made for letting moisture lift off of itself and vermiculite is nearly the exact opposite, holding water within itself.

However, I was wondering if any one has tried to do dunk and roll with perlite?
I ask this because, at the moment, one of my birthed and FCed cakes has some perlite on it, because I originally had it directly on the perlite and then moved it onto aluminum foil.
Now, this same cake has verm on it as well, but the spots that have perlite have exploded. The myc has completely colonized the perlite and, in fact, it is beginning to pin.

Has anyone experimented with this? Because, while I understand the logic behind using verm and not perlite...my experience is showing much the opposite.


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OfflineNebula
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: Veter]
    #7773320 - 12/18/07 10:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It seems to me that perlite would dry out your substrate. After all, its purpose is to create a humid atmosphere.
I cannot explain the spots in the perlite; it's weird because perlite is not nutritious.


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: Veter]
    #7773328 - 12/18/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

well isn't the reason we use perlite is because it's good at not holding water? the whole point of the perlite is to evaporate the water and create a high RH

so basically if you were to roll with perlite you'd probably end up drying your cakes out extremely fast
since we know perlite is really good at releasing water, if you don't have 100%RH then the perlite is going to pull the water out of your cake and release it into your terrarium

no offense but possibly it's just a fluke?
i'm guessing the perlite came from the bottom of your terrarium, maybe it just got nice and wet on that spots where it came in contact with the perlite?

but then there's the possibility that the perlite in small areas is effective, if the perlite is releasing water, maybe it's triggering pinning by being where the RH is best

blah maybe i just think too hard when i smoke too much xD


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: Nebula]
    #7773339 - 12/18/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Moisture in a pf cake often drains to the bottom of the cake from gravity, thus pinning starts there. In addition, right against the perlite is the most humid microclimate, thus it encourages pinning. It's also the area that any perite will stick to the cake simply by geography.

I've added a bit of perlite to casing soil mixes with good results. The perlite keeps the casing nice and fluffy and provides many air pockets which are conducive to fruiting. I suppose the same could help on a cake.

Perhaps one of you could do a dunk and roll in the normal way with verm, and then follow it up with a perlite roll as an experiment.
RR


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OfflineVeter
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: anarchOi]
    #7773358 - 12/18/07 10:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

anarchOi,
I'm definitely not doubting you or your logic, because I completely understand.
Maybe it is just a fluke. I'm just curious, because the spots with perlite in this particular situation have gone crazy. It almost looks like a mycelium foam with hyphall knots and one pin on it.
I'd like to get a picture, but I won't have a camera available until January.

Anyway, more theories are welcome. I'd really like to hear whatever ideas are out there.

EDIT:
RR: I have three cakes incubating right now, so I plan to dunk and roll one of them in perlite...so we shall see what happens.


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Let the Demons have their place, if so, it's angels you'll create.


Edited by Veter (12/18/07 10:51 AM)


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: Veter]
    #7773378 - 12/18/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

might i suggest that you do a perlite/verm mix to roll one with?

if there's alot of stock in rolling in perlite then i suspect the key might be in having minimal surface area covered in perlite

the lightly covered areas would likely create a high RH right at the surface of the cake


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OfflineMotorCityMadman
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: Veter]
    #7773615 - 12/18/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The main reason this sounds bad to me is that I don't like working with perlite.

It's messy...and if it dries out and gets crushed up, the dust seriously irritates one's airways.

I still use it for humidity in PMPs and as a soil additive for gardening, but not much else.


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: MotorCityMadman]
    #7773689 - 12/18/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

most perlite bags suggest that you add water immediately after opening


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OfflineNibin
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: MotorCityMadman]
    #7773719 - 12/18/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with RR, it probably has more to do with geography (the bit with perlite is at the bottom of the cake which is where pinning happens easier) than with the qualities of perlite.

But please, do the test and prove us wrong. Then we will have a new system of improving cake grows. New discoveries need someone to question established procedure.


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OfflineMotorCityMadman
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: Nibin]
    #7773750 - 12/18/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, and I don't mind eating a speck of vermiculite now and then...but perlite would be nasty crunchy!

Quote:

most perlite bags suggest that you add water immediately after opening




yes, but even then there's always a piece or two that falls on the floor or your work area, dries out, and gets smashed by the new tray you're working on...cough cough


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OfflineanarchOi
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: MotorCityMadman]
    #7774440 - 12/18/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

lol iunno about you but i end up with an assload more mess just from cleaning the shrooms of dirt and verm than i ever do with perlite


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: anarchOi]
    #7774580 - 12/18/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

it would seem verm and perlite would be equally messy


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OfflineVeter
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #7774630 - 12/18/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hm, interesting that no one has really tried this.
When my next cakes are ready, I'll do some experimenting and do a grow log to let you guys see the results.

I really don't care too much about a mess...this is all somewhat messy anyway, so whatever.

It seems that a mixture of perlite and verm might be effective, but we shall see.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: A somewhat taboo question [Re: Veter]
    #7776823 - 12/19/07 09:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

people have tried it before. i really can't lead you to any previous post... personally i was glad to remove perlite from the whole equation.... with a cool mist.

but give it a try start a grow log... let us see what happens... im always up for new things


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