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OfflineLordByron
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Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions
    #7729585 - 12/07/07 04:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all,
First off please excuse me if these are not exactly super "advanced mycology" questions. As a long time lurker on this board, I was afraid questions about anything other than cubes on the basic forum would not be helpful. On to the point...

So I live in Washington and want my own outdoor Psilocybe cyanescens patch. I have found these mushrooms several times in wild but never in enough quantity or quality to suffice. So recently I acquired an autoclave, a culture incubator, and built a laminar flow hood (thanks in no small part to this thread). I then hunted down a few wild specimens and have cloned them onto several petri dishes of MEA. Why MEA? Because that’s what I ordered before I read the part of “growing gourmet…” where Stamets recommends MYA, PDYA, OMYA, or DFA. But this is still a little confusing to me because two pages earlier (P. 326 in my edition) he shows a picture of P. azurescens growing on MEA. So first question, did I fuck up? Should I have used DFA or something?

Regardless, I now have several dishes with a very smooth velvety mycelium growing on them. Now on to my second question, should I be looking for rhizomorphic growth? Is the lack of rhizomorphic growth due to the MEA or the fact that I have not sectored the culture enough times yet?

My plan now was to do one more round of sectoring either on to MEA again or DFA depend on what you guys say. From there I wanted to make up a bunch of half gallon jar masters, but I am not sure what medium would be best. I am considering rye grain, wood chips (maple), and card board. The final fruiting substrate will be likely a mostly maple wood chip matrix. So should I do a couple rye grain masters then use these to inoculate woodchip masters? Or should I go first to card board then to wood chip masters? Or straight to wood chip masters? Or some combination not listed?

Lastly, I decided to hedge my bets and very recently ordered several prints so if a terminally screw up one I will have other strains to go to. I ordered two other cyanescens strains as well as Psilocybe arcana (Hlavacek’s Psilocybe) and a wild strain of Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa. The arcana is supposedly a temperate mushroom from the Czech republic that I really have no idea whether I will be able to get it to grow outdoors in Washington, but am going to give it a go. The cyanofibrillosa is a species I have only ever found in terrible states of decay in the wild and I would really like to try. While I’m sure it will grow outdoors in Washington I’m not even sure it will even get me f’d up. Does anyone have any experience growing either of these two species?

Thank you very much for any assistance now and in the past.


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All you touch and all you see, is all your life you'll ever be.


Edited by LordByron (12/07/07 04:43 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: LordByron]
    #7730283 - 12/07/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I never see much rhizos until after the third or fourth transfer. Take as tiny of pieces from each sector as you can when you transfer. After awhile, you'll start to see some rhizomorphic mycelium, and you can carefully cut out some of that to transfer. You can get a tiny piece of rhizo mycelium on your scalpel by carefully shaving it with the tip, taking no agar. With my magnifying glass, I can steady my hand and cut out a single strand for transfer.

P cyanescens is a much prettier and 'whiter' mycelium than cubensis, once you get some pure strains isolated.

MEA might not be the best, but it works.
RR


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7730517 - 12/07/07 08:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i would only isolate 2-3 times away from the spores just to insure good genetic makeup. ps cyan/azure do not produce adbundent rhizos like cubes.

Look for my growlog. it works better then great. i deleted all the pics but maybe you can get an idea of what to do from it.

I made a shit load of grain spawn, just wbs.
I made beds in the existing planters in my back yard. i added soil to the beds because I knew that I couldnt fuck with it once i started the bed.
I lightly sprinkeled the colonized grain spawn to about 5 kernels per square inch, it was just a rough estimate. Some more some less. Then I add no more then 2 inches of these wood chips. I find that going deeper then 3 inches smothers the mycelium so basically 1-3 inch deep with the chips. I watered 1-3 times a week depending on temps.
It gets 115 degrees here in teh summer and I am sure the suface temp of the bed hit 140. As it cooled down I kept watering once a week and I noticed the mycelium coming to the surface. Then i just let nature take over. it is super easy, super basic, no need to boil these chips.
Aslo check wiccan seekers outdoor tech. I took one mushroom and chopped it up in the blender and mixed it in a bag with some chips a few weeks ago and it took off. Colonized the whole bag in one month.
This is the ideal easy tech with no lab work


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OfflineLordByron
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: tahoe]
    #7765745 - 12/16/07 02:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think things are coming along well... This what it should look like?


Only a little bit of contamination....


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: LordByron]
    #7767305 - 12/16/07 08:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yeper, looks good. Are those started from spores or transfers?
See the cyan mycelium growing over the contam.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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OfflineLordByron
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: tahoe]
    #7773274 - 12/18/07 10:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not exactly sure if they are from spores or transfers. By the time I got my lab set up I could only find two very small buttons before we got a hard frost and pretty much ended hunting for the year. I dipped the specimens in a 90% methanol solution and then rinsed them with distilled water. The buttons were very small when I cut them and they gills seems barely mature if at all. I know normally you want to take a cutting from the center part of the stalk or from just under the cuticle of the cap, but I had a very small amount of raw material to work with so I just cleaned them as described above and then cut them (gills and all) into small sections.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: LordByron]
    #7789297 - 12/22/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

sounds like you know what you are doing. Keep them away from that mold. Get a shit load of grain spawn ready before sprint/summer and you will have a bad ass cyan patch all to your self.
These grew from the stems left over from hunting. I did nothing to cultivate them, just trashed the stems outside in some landscaping wood chips.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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OfflineTopcorn
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: LordByron]
    #7815661 - 12/31/07 12:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

your technique is an interesting way to start a cyanescens patch if you have already found some growing in the wild. I live in washington too, and found many cyanescens patches this last fall. I've started many cyan patches in the last few years, I always create mine using "natural culture", stamets has a very good guide on this. Basically i just cut off stem-butts from the shrooms i pick and place em between layers of soaked corragated cardboard either out where the patch will be or in plastic tubs. The stem-butts will colonize on the cardboard which can be used as spawn for a woodchip patch. The best thing about this method is that its not sterile, therefore the mycelium is already able to withstand the outdoors many contaminants. Patches of cyans i've started from wild spores germinated in pure culture and planted outside eventually produced shrooms, but had hard time acclimating to environment.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: Topcorn]
    #7816816 - 12/31/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

cardboard sucks!!!!!


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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OfflineTopcorn
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: tahoe]
    #7822254 - 01/02/08 12:31 AM (16 years, 30 days ago)

why so?? I've had great success creating new cyan patches from cardboard inoculated with stem-butts, usually in tubs then planted when the mycelium is actively digesting the cardboard. This fall i tried new technique where i sprinkled some very fresh alder saw shaving in with the stem-butts when making cardboard tubs, it worked very well in some tubs. I've also had success sterilizing woodchips in jars and inoculating with wild spores, but like i mentioned before the mycelium takes longer to adapt to the outdoors. I never thought of starting a patch from tissue culture, but it seems like it could lead to some very productive yields!


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: Topcorn]
    #7822310 - 01/02/08 12:48 AM (16 years, 30 days ago)

it sucks compared to alder shavings right?


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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OfflineTopcorn
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: tahoe]
    #7826016 - 01/03/08 12:06 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

maybe in some ways, but in my experience alder or any wood chips brought inside always become covered in molds when not sterilized. I'd rather not go through the process of sterilizing substrates if i intend on introducing it to the wild. The alder shavings i used in the cardboard tubs was overtaken by the cyan stem-butts so fast there was no need to sterilize them. Plus cardboard is always around the house so i will donate some to the mycelium.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: Topcorn]
    #7826704 - 01/03/08 09:10 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Woodchips with surface molds can easily be cleaned off with a q-tip dipped in salt brine. Wood doesn't need to be sterilized. Normally, when using woodchip/sawdust substrates we add wheat or rice bran to the substrate, and that's the reason we sterilize.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineLordByron
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7830133 - 01/03/08 10:53 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

As it happens right now I am attempting to grow spawn on both cardboard and rye grain.


rye grain


cardboard

The mycelium growing on the card board is ropey and beautiful but there is also much less of it.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: LordByron]
    #7830173 - 01/03/08 11:01 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

nice byron. The cool thing about these wood lovers is that even if your grain is a little funky/contaminated you can still use it outside. nature will kick the contams ass and the cyan will colonize wood faster then the contams.

Looks like that jar is ready to spawn to a 5x5 area.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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OfflineTopcorn
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: LordByron]
    #7830341 - 01/03/08 11:56 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

whats your plan for the grain spawn?


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OfflineLordByron
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Re: Several Psilocybe cyanescens questions [Re: Topcorn]
    #7833685 - 01/04/08 09:28 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

As of right now the plan is to put the spawn into spawn bags with sterilized wood chips. These bags will be used this spring to establish an outdoor bed. I’m not sure if that is how I will use 100% of the rye spawn but the bulk will be used like that. With the difference, I was toying with the idea of layered wood spawn generation. I recently read a thread on another site that showed some incredible results with other wood lovers by slowly adding layers of wood chips to a non-sterile bed. I don’t know if I can produce the right conditions for this to work but it seems like a fun experiment.


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All you touch and all you see, is all your life you'll ever be.


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