|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Our modern culture is so evolved.
#7773219 - 12/18/07 09:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
"For the present, the comedy of existence has not yet become conscious of itself. For the present, we still live in the age of tragedy, the age of moralities and religions." - Nietzche
The more I understand this guy the more affinity I feel with his beliefs.
The Universe is chaos and we continue to try and convince ourselves that we can order it. -Icelander
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7773229 - 12/18/07 09:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Well, it does seem a bit odd that I'm existing right now. Think of the ramifications.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: fireworks_god]
#7773241 - 12/18/07 10:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
odd compared to what?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7773267 - 12/18/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: The Universe is chaos and we continue to try and convince ourselves that we can order it. -Icelander
Or is the universe order and we keep trying to find chaos in it?
--------------------
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7773268 - 12/18/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The thought of our imminent death, of the idea of us not existing...
The experience of reality to a greater degree than we are normally accustomed to really brings one to question the nature of reality itself, and positions us back in a state of not knowing, immersed in the mystery of experiencing reality... it really makes you curious to know.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Silversoul]
#7773325 - 12/18/07 10:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Icelander said: The Universe is chaos and we continue to try and convince ourselves that we can order it. -Icelander
Or is the universe order and we keep trying to find chaos in it?
Maybe life looks a little different from your planet.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Boundless
Stranger
Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 38
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: fireworks_god]
#7773326 - 12/18/07 10:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
If it is chaos how can we conceive of it at all? How could we conceive of a self which can act upon this chaos and make manifest his ideas, much less KNOW the self?
How can a human being who is capable of ordering his thought system as he chooses have effects in his mind and the minds of others?
And if he says his thought system is chaotic, does it not say more about his perception of himself, then the true nature of reality?
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: fireworks_god]
#7773335 - 12/18/07 10:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fireworks_god said: The thought of our imminent death, of the idea of us not existing...
The experience of reality to a greater degree than we are normally accustomed to really brings one to question the nature of reality itself, and positions us back in a state of not knowing, immersed in the mystery of experiencing reality... it really makes you curious to know.
I would say interesting rather than odd. Death is the norm and it's always been mystery. That may feel odd because our parents and culture usually tell us that there are common explanations for the mystery which turns out to be sooo untrue. Then it feels odd because we thought we knew what was up.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
xFrockx



Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 15 hours
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7773410 - 12/18/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I think this is more true for today's culture than many ancient cultures. Death was a fact of life for the Egyptians, Aztecs, Greeks, and to a lesser extent the Romans. If anything I'd say according to Nietzsche our culture has declined compared to others. We live in a time where everyone somehow thinks they are a "superman" yet no one is.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: xFrockx]
#7773444 - 12/18/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I am.
You both have excellent points. But, still, I think it is odd. Not in a bad way, or anything. Its just like, wow, I exist right now, this is nuts, how could this be? It just seems peculiar that there is existance and here I am amongst it all.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7773447 - 12/18/07 11:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Icelander said: The Universe is chaos and we continue to try and convince ourselves that we can order it. -Icelander
Or is the universe order and we keep trying to find chaos in it?
Maybe life looks a little different from your planet.
It always looks differently through a different reality tunnel.
--------------------
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Silversoul]
#7773449 - 12/18/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
That's why I climb mountains instead of dig my way into them.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Clean
the lense


Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7773687 - 12/18/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
i think most are happy these days to have their so-called order implanted entirely by outside influences. it's just so much easier that way...thinking at all is awfully troublesome.
|
BlueCoyote
Beyond



Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Clean]
#7773780 - 12/18/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
yep, ([modern] external human) mal-intentioned authority doesn't want us to think. They want us to exist for them..
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: fireworks_god]
#7773813 - 12/18/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fireworks_god said: I am.
You both have excellent points. But, still, I think it is odd. Not in a bad way, or anything. Its just like, wow, I exist right now, this is nuts, how could this be? It just seems peculiar that there is existance and here I am amongst it all.
I know what you mean. But no statement goes unchallenged for Icelander.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: xFrockx]
#7773816 - 12/18/07 01:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
xFrockx said: I think this is more true for today's culture than many ancient cultures. Death was a fact of life for the Egyptians, Aztecs, Greeks, and to a lesser extent the Romans. If anything I'd say according to Nietzsche our culture has declined compared to others. We live in a time where everyone somehow thinks they are a "superman" yet no one is.
My guess also.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker



Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: xFrockx]
#7774319 - 12/18/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
xFrockx said: I think this is more true for today's culture than many ancient cultures. Death was a fact of life for the Egyptians, Aztecs, Greeks, and to a lesser extent the Romans. If anything I'd say according to Nietzsche our culture has declined compared to others. We live in a time where everyone somehow thinks they are a "superman" yet no one is.
No one is divine and beyond their own mortality, but all is perfection nonetheless.
I think all religions and moralities express everything divinely, and even the changes in the modern culture bring us closer to divinity than we've ever been before.
Nonetheless, no matter how far we journey up towards the fountainhead, I doubt anybody's going to find the source anytime soon.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
|
future
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 408
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Ravus]
#7774352 - 12/18/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
When i clicked this thread I thought were you going to talk about just how far we have come in a civilation. In just a short, relatively, 3,000 years we have gone from walking to anywhere we want to go, to having mechanized vehicles that transport us there stars wars style.
We have skyscrapers that stretch to the heavens.
Planes to fly us from continent to continent in under a day.
I can call someone on the other side of the world and have open communication in seconds.
I can read what someone is typing anywhere in the world from right here at my desk.
Everything is basically provided for us, from heat, to electricity. Yet we still consider ourselves at the base of the frontier. Which is probably true.
-------------------- I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7774455 - 12/18/07 04:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The Universe is chaos and we continue to try and convince ourselves that we can order it. ~ Real Candi
--------------------
|
xFrockx



Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 15 hours
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: future]
#7775522 - 12/18/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
In all honesty, in spit of all these technological advancements I think our species peaked during the age of enlightenment. Were is our John Locke? Where is our Descartes? I'd trade all the cell phones in the world for a few decent thinkers.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: xFrockx]
#7776921 - 12/19/07 09:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
You got me and Veritas baby.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Ozekat
Cosmic Observer



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 186
Loc: Kentucky
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7779106 - 12/19/07 07:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Honestly I'm becoming more and more afraid of how "authority" will try and expand its control on not only our actions, but our minds.
Violent resistance, anyone?
-------------------- Tension is who you think you should be. Relaxation is who you are. - Chinese Proverb
Beauty & Simplicity
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Ozekat]
#7780990 - 12/20/07 10:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Your fears are well founded I believe. The World Bank could well be positioning the economic/money structure for the creation of a One World Govt.
Can you say Dark Ages? Can you say more slavery?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
MeatyVitamin
The Majority



Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 185
Loc: Canadian Bacon
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7781570 - 12/20/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I've had this idea in my head for a while, but never tried to put it into words, so bear with me if it doesn't make any sense:
The universe is made of atoms and the like, tiny pieces of matter that go about their days according to laws of the universe that they cannot change, nor have the will to change. In this universe there is no "freedom" because there is no choice involved, there is only the interaction of matter and perhaps a measure of luck involved with each reaction.
In contrast to this is any form of life. The individual cell doesn't simply go about it days according to the laws of the universe, it takes active part in its world and changes things according to its needs and wants. The same could be said about humanity; we don't operate according to some universal principles and our free will is what separates us from the rest of the universe. We actively mess around with things and create what would never have existed, we essentially are a wrench in the cogs of the universe.
I'm seeing the universe as a system of order whereas the second you introduce life into the mix you get an aspect of chaos. But to deny this chaos is to devolve into something without purpose, because without choice how can there be purpose? If we just go to work, come home and sleep, rinse and repeat until we die, how are we any different than a star in a galaxy that revolves until it burns out, our existence would have no meaning beyond continuing to uphold the stability. But if we go imagine and create according to our free will we will have truly used our freedom.
-------------------- I like to keep my work life and my home life seperate. My job doesn't know I have a wife, and my wife doesn't know I have a job.
|
deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: MeatyVitamin]
#7782037 - 12/20/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Purpose is as void as anything else. At best atoms are contraptions of themselves, at worst contraptions of ourselves. What our culture now needs is to kick itself so hard in the nuts it starts dividing by zero.
|
NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: Icelander]
#7783251 - 12/20/07 08:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
The more I understand this guy the more affinity I feel with his beliefs.
What did I tell ya, dear friend. I knew you and Nietzsche would make a great team!
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7784901 - 12/21/07 09:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
One big divergence for me is his belief that the universe was essentially pain and suffering. The opposite is to believe that reality is all good and loving. I take the middle path here and say the Universe is both.
Really, all these philosophers are just guessing based on their personal life experiences. They, like all of us, are groping and guessing at truth. Now you can pick the one or ones you like to agree with and that's about all there is to it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Our modern culture is so evolved. [Re: MeatyVitamin]
#7784907 - 12/21/07 09:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MeatyVitamin said: I've had this idea in my head for a while, but never tried to put it into words, so bear with me if it doesn't make any sense:
The universe is made of atoms and the like, tiny pieces of matter that go about their days according to laws of the universe that they cannot change, nor have the will to change. In this universe there is no "freedom" because there is no choice involved, there is only the interaction of matter and perhaps a measure of luck involved with each reaction.
In contrast to this is any form of life. The individual cell doesn't simply go about it days according to the laws of the universe, it takes active part in its world and changes things according to its needs and wants. The same could be said about humanity; we don't operate according to some universal principles and our free will is what separates us from the rest of the universe. We actively mess around with things and create what would never have existed, we essentially are a wrench in the cogs of the universe.
I'm seeing the universe as a system of order whereas the second you introduce life into the mix you get an aspect of chaos. But to deny this chaos is to devolve into something without purpose, because without choice how can there be purpose? If we just go to work, come home and sleep, rinse and repeat until we die, how are we any different than a star in a galaxy that revolves until it burns out, our existence would have no meaning beyond continuing to uphold the stability. But if we go imagine and create according to our free will we will have truly used our freedom.
Nice theory. You are now a philosopher.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
|