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Invisiblejohnm214
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Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk)
    #7772858 - 12/18/07 05:16 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/17/health/webmd/main3626709.shtml
(
WebMD) New research from Canada shows that some toxins may be more abundant in marijuana cigarettes than tobacco cigarettes.

The researchers burned 30 marijuana cigarettes and 30 tobacco cigarettes on a machine in their lab, measuring levels of chemicals in the smoke.

Ammonia levels were up to 20 times higher in marijuana smoke than in tobacco smoke. Levels of hydrogen cyanide and nitrogen-related chemicals were three to five times higher in marijuana smoke than in tobacco smoke.

The nitrogen-based fertilizer used on the marijuana plants -- which all came from the same batch of Canadian pot plants -- may have affected the results.
The temperatures used to burn the cigarettes may also have been a factor.

Marijuana smoke and tobacco smoke shared many of the same chemicals. But the two types of smoke weren't identical.

For instance, marijuana doesn't contain nicotine. And tobacco doesn't contain cannabinoids, which include THC, marijuana's active ingredient

Tobacco has long been linked to cancer and other health problems. Marijuana smoke hasn't been tied to cancer in the past, note the
researchers, who included David Moir of the Safe Environments Programme in
Kitchener, Ontario.

Moir and colleagues report their findings in the advance online edition of
Chemical Research in Toxicology.

They promise to compare the toxicity of marijuana smoke and tobacco smoke in
animals in another study.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7772863 - 12/18/07 05:18 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The no shit from the title is in refrence to the obvious title, not the rest of the paper.

I'm somewhat surprised they didn't mention the difference in quantity smoked by your average pothead vs. ciggerette junky. THen again, many of my pothead friends smoke like chimneys anyways.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7772885 - 12/18/07 05:46 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> I'm somewhat surprised they didn't mention ...

... anything about radioactive compounds found in tobacco smoke that are not found in cannabis smoke.


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Offlinekidaihuan
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7772901 - 12/18/07 06:14 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
They promise to compare the toxicity of marijuana smoke and tobacco smoke in animals in another study.




The reason being behind this because...?

Because they want to have an excuse to get dogs and cats high?

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7772909 - 12/18/07 06:18 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Animals are cheaper and easier to get approval for. Also easier to eliminate extraneous variables.

As to why its important how the two compare, more information is always good. Perhaps it can help transfer some of the data we have on smoking tobacco to smoking marijuana.

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OfflineOverclock22
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: Seuss]
    #7773288 - 12/18/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I'm somewhat surprised they didn't mention ...

... anything about radioactive compounds found in tobacco smoke that are not found in cannabis smoke.





Nobody ever does


--------------------
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If you wake up at a different time in a different place, can you wake up a different person?

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InvisibleChiefGreenLeaf

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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: Overclock22]
    #7773723 - 12/18/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If you flush your plants right and give them no ferts before havest, then you won't have near as many toxins. Wow, I just can't believe how doctors can be such dumb fucks.

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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #7773741 - 12/18/07 01:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah really... They probably used extra nutes right up to harvest on purpose, just to create some bad weed news... fuckers.

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7773761 - 12/18/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

While the study does not take into account the polonium 210 radiation that makes tobacco smoke so deadly, it is also possible that many growers of middle quality cannabis do not do the best job on dealing with the fertilizers in their plants either


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7773776 - 12/18/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

More likely is the news article is biased and draws unsubstantiated conclusions. I've not seen any evidence that independant researchers have manipulated drug research methods to yeild outcomes favorable to government policy. If you know of such, please inform us.

I think people are unnecesarily warry of this type of research, without any real cause. Mistakes happen, but I've not seen any intentional deception, only biased media and government spin on what the results of a given study actually were.

Here's the article.

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.cgi/crtoec/asap/html/tx700275p.html

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7773818 - 12/18/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> I think people are unnecesarily warry of this type of research, without any real cause.

Unfortunately, the extreme ethics violations, and mistakes, made by scientists in the past makes it difficult to accept any current conclusions on the subject without assuming similar bias on the part of modern researchers. When politics gets involved with science, science becomes partial towards the desires of politics. Sad, but true.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: Seuss]
    #7773883 - 12/18/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, and the vast majority are simple mistakes. That's why there's a materials and methods section, so others can coroborate the research.

This is how that korean guy who fraudulently claimed all sorts of stem-cell firsts was discovered, and likewise how the researchers who made a claim regarding MDMA toxicity discovered they had recieved incorrect materials (meth instead of MDMA). (See: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/301/5639/1479b
for the MDMA vs. methylamphetamine mixup and correction)

Point is, any decent paper contains enough data to disprove it's own conclusions. And for a topic like this, where anything burned is bound to have toxic and cancerous products, the results aren't going to be very surprising.

And not surprisingly, it is not the study in this instance that demonizes marijuana, its the selective news report.


"A comparison of the PAHs in mainstream smoke showed that levels from marijuana were lower than those from tobacco, although the pattern of content was very similar. The only exception was dibenz(a,h)anthracene, which was slightly elevated in marijuana under ISO conditions. Under high temperatures and reduced oxygen, tobacco can undergo a pyrolysis process in which free radical formation is enhanced (34), which increases PAH formation. Nitrogen oxides can act as free radical scavengers and can lower PAH formation from pyrolysis (37), and the presence of higher levels of nitrate may therefore lower PAH formation. However, in a study examining the levels of 14 PAHs in commercial tobacco cigarettes, no correlation could be found between nitrate levels and PAH content in the smoke (38). The authors concluded that many factors affect the ultimate concentration of PAHs in mainstream smoke.

The sidestream smoke tells a different story from the mainstream, with marijuana showing greater yields of a number of PAHs than those from tobacco. The differences seem to be more pronounced for the lower molecular weight substances as shown in Figures 1 and "

Mainstream inhalation of marijuana therefore produces less polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) than tobacco, except for the anthracene, which is mildly elevated. PAH's are largely suspected or confirmed carcinogens. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon



PAH ratio marijuana/tobacco w/ mainstream smoke



And, for anybody interested, go to Table 3, and check out the VAST difference in heavy metals between the marijuana and tobacco. Mercury, for instance, was of a magnitude of 3.17 ± 0.32 in tobacco, whereas in marijuana it was below the detectable limit of 1.10.

So its not like there wasn't great news for marijuana as compared to tobacco available commercially. The news article just focused on Ammonia, for some reason. Why? My guess is they wanted to show something bad.

Though Ammonia is a respiratory toxin, I'm not aware of permanent effects as long as you don't go cyanotic, in which case you wouldn't be smoking anything.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7773918 - 12/18/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Additionally, the study made no determination as to the comparitive safety. It specifically discounted drawing any conclusions based upon quantitative analysis, for the reason mentioned earlier, that growing conditions vastly change individual samples. That said, the only analytes higher in the marijuana were the nitrogenous compounds, which likely was a result of the marijuana grown.

From the conclusions section:

"The combustion of any plant material will result in a complex mixture of chemicals, the composition and percentages of which depend on a large number of variables. The present study supports previous research (16, 20) and found that marijuana smoke contains qualitatively many of the same chemicals as tobacco smoke. This qualitative similarity is more important when assessing the risks for adverse outcomes than are the differences in level of a particular substance, which can change from sample to sample or from one smoking condition to another. That being said, on a quantitative basis, a number of chemicals were present in marijuana smoke at levels that were substantially higher than in tobacco smoke. For example, NO, NOx, hydrogen cyanide, and aromatic amines were present in marijuana smoke at levels 3−5 times higher than in mainstream tobacco smoke, while ammonia was present at levels 20 times higher than tobacco. Conversely, some compounds such as PAHs, formaldehyde, and acetaldehyde were found at moderately higher levels in tobacco."



So the paper didn't determine marijuana was more dangerous. And indeed it seems less so, considering the much smaller quantities smoked, unless you have such low respiratory reserve that the nitrogenous compounds would effect you substantially..

But anyone curious in finding out about the manner in which the marijuana was grown, can contact the company listed in the materials and methods section.

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OfflineSunshineDaydream
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7774130 - 12/18/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i personally don't smoke much of anything generally.
when i go out to the bars i might kill a whole pack, though.
as far as weed goes. i get quality shit so i only take 2 hits a day. most days i have 1 to 3 tobacco cigarettes and occasionally none what so ever.
i have no doubt the cigs are way worse for me then the weed in this regimen...but at least i don't smoke a pack and a half every day like i used to.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7774230 - 12/18/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> I've not seen any evidence that independant researchers have manipulated drug research methods to yeild outcomes favorable to government policy. If you know of such, please inform us.

These studies are funded by government grants. If your study doesn't agree with the governments point of view, they don't fund you the next year and you lose your job. It is a very direct and yet legal way to tamper with the results of the science.

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: SunshineDaydream]
    #7774302 - 12/18/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I smoked cigarettes for about a year and a half before acid made me never pick up another cigarette again, and I also almost completely stopped smoking cannabis in favor of vaporizing it. But assuming people are smoking cannabis, not vaporizing or eating it, in terms of physical sensations, tobacco still feels a thousand times more poisonous to my heart and my body.

It only takes our intuition, not necessarily scientific research, though that usually backs up intuition in the end. Smoking cannabis probably isn't good for you over decades in terms of the carbon monoxide and the tar alone, but there is no evidence that it causes cancer and some evidence that it actually helps prevent cancer, so I think we should all just start vaporizing and stop worrying.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7774698 - 12/18/07 05:37 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
> I've not seen any evidence that independant researchers have manipulated drug research methods to yeild outcomes favorable to government policy. If you know of such, please inform us.

These studies are funded by government grants. If your study doesn't agree with the governments point of view, they don't fund you the next year and you lose your job. It is a very direct and yet legal way to tamper with the results of the science.




I can appreciate your skepticism, but 1) Where is the bias in the study?
2) Do you have sources for your viewpoint? As I asked in that quote you cited, I'd love to see where the government systematically has pressured researchers towards biased findings.


I am not that knowledgable in this area, but I know the view of many in my area who do research (granted not this type) is that the government funding is selective towards the pet interests of that year, but your not required to turn out bad science because of it.

I also know two people on the NIH review board that screens and approves grant apps, they've only expressed disdain on the areas research money is allocated, not that they must push for certain results.


Again, I don't have much personal knowledge, but I really would love to see examples that fit my request in the above.

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Offlinehooksbooks
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7775983 - 12/18/07 11:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

My lungs have thanked me since i switched to only vaporizing my herb in the volcano and switching to a maximum of one cigar a day instead of 5-10 cigs.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: hooksbooks]
    #7776016 - 12/18/07 11:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Probably better for your lungs.  But if this study is to be believed, your still at a greater risk.  The study did some fancy extrapolations though, so I don't know if its that accurate or not.  Still, your still sucking in carcinogens from that tobacco, and your heart seems like it isn't too pleased either.

I don't know if this study was thoguht to be reliable by others though.  :shrug:

"Adjusted relative risk (95% confidence interval) in smokers of 1–4 cigarettes per day, with never smokers as reference, of dying from ischaemic heart disease was 2.74 (2.07 to 3.61) in men and 2.94 (1.75 to 4.95) in women. The corresponding figures for all cancer were 1.08 (0.78 to 1.49) and 1.14 (0.84 to 1.55), for lung cancer 2.79 (0.94 to 8.28) and 5.03 (1.81 to 13.98), and for any cause 1.57 (1.33 to 1.85) and 1.47 (1.19 to 1.82).

Conclusions: In both sexes, smoking 1–4 cigarettes per day was associated with a significantly higher risk of dying from ischaemic heart disease and from all causes, and from lung cancer in women. Smoking control policymakers and health educators should emphasise more strongly that light smokers also endanger their health."



http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/14/5/315

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Re: Study Shows Toxins In Marijuana Smoke (from the 'no shit' newsdesk) [Re: johnm214]
    #7780241 - 12/20/07 01:49 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

ew shitty beaster hydro


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