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OfflineMeatyVitamin
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Atheism and Shroom-taking
    #7772607 - 12/18/07 01:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was wondering if there are any other atheists on these boards who do shrooms. Many people talk about spiritual experiences or other instances seemingly supernatural as reasons to take shrooms, as a method of expanding your mind in these ways. But I can't think of any reason to do shrooms other than they are a fun thing to do. Having said that, I truly want to believe that there is something to be learned or experienced through the use of hallucinogens.

What I'm trying to get at is why would an atheist do shrooms knowing full-well (if only in in their own mind) that the result will be nothing more than a chemical imbalance temporarily altering the way we perceive the world. Furthermore would a trip even have any lasting relevance to an atheist?

I ask these things because I find myself inexplicably attracted to the effects of shrooms; an attraction that goes beyond "its fun to trip" but I can't quite place it. Almost a spiritual aura to it, but in my mind there is no room for religion or spirituality.


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I like to keep my work life and my home life seperate. My job doesn't know I have a wife, and my wife doesn't know I have a job.


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Offlinebenrules92
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772612 - 12/18/07 01:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MeatyVitamin said:

What I'm trying to get at is why would an atheist do shrooms knowing full-well (if only in in their own mind) that the result will be nothing more than a chemical imbalance temporarily altering the way we perceive the world. Furthermore would a trip even have any lasting relevance to an atheist?





Uhhh because it temporarily alters the way we perceive the world ,,,, Why would an atheist not wana do shrooms ??


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OfflineNess1
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: benrules92]
    #7772621 - 12/18/07 01:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

LSD is slowly softening my atheism into a form of agnosticism/spiritualism. We'll see where it goes.


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I know what they'll find, it's in their mind, it's what they want to see. Spare me from the light, here comes the night and here I'll stay, waiting for darkness.


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Invisibleawesomebastard
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772628 - 12/18/07 01:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

very very interesting question i used to be religous actaully lsd is what introduced the thought to me that beleving in something you cant prove have never experinced and were just told your whole life is fucking retarded im agnostic but i guess we will al find out someday who wins this stupid argument about religion and god.


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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."


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OfflineCMACD
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772638 - 12/18/07 01:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"I ask these things because I find myself inexplicably attracted to the effects of shrooms; an attraction that goes beyond "its fun to trip" but I can't quite place it. Almost a spiritual aura to it, but in my mind there is no room for religion or spirituality."

I felt EXACTLY like that, until I took 7g dried... I guess I could call the experience I had spiritual. but still, a total atheist (I was more just skeptical) might have the exact same experience (a connection to the "source of it all", and everything in the universe, as well as meeting various alien entities) and not feel the need to label it "spiritual". That "source" doesn't have to be named God, and those entities you meet might not be "spirits". You might say "yeah, but they're all just hallucinations" but in my opinion the things you experience on a level 4+ trip of shrooms feel more real than anything ever has in your life (while you're on them, anyways). I'm rambling, stoned, sorry. haha.

I guess my point is that maybe if you do a higher dose, or maybe just have a more mentally focused trip, your opinion of what the experience really is might change...

but then again who knows? Maybe there's just a hidden scientific explanation for some of the specific effects/experiences of a trip.


Edited by CMACD (12/18/07 02:15 AM)


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Offlinesomebody041
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Ness1]
    #7772701 - 12/18/07 02:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ness1 said:
LSD is slowly softening my atheism into a form of agnosticism/spiritualism. We'll see where it goes.




Yup, same for me except with shrooms instead.


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: somebody041]
    #7772718 - 12/18/07 02:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It sounds like you're already having trouble reconciling your beliefs (or lack thereof) and your experiences.

Either way, have fun.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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OfflineVeter
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: somebody041]
    #7772721 - 12/18/07 02:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

As an atheist, I still find shrooms 'spiritual.'
It should also be noted that many Buddhists are atheists and yet they find extreme therapy in meditation.
I suppose you could put tripping on the same level as meditation and get your explanation.
Just because you know everything can be explained does not mean its any less magical.
In the future, human-created technology will be so strange and unimaginable that, to our minds, it may as well be magic. That isn't to say it actually is magic (because it can obviously be created through science), but it may as well be. This sort of logic can easily be applied to tripping.
The psychedelic experience is such a different state of intoxication from everything else that it is, in a sense, 'spiritual.' It at least mimics religious revelation, ecstasy, etc.

Just like life, the wonder of tripping is not lost because of your religious beliefs. Chemical reactions are just as marvelous as "God's designs."

Also, you have to admit that experiencing the world in such a bizarre way is pretty awesome.


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Let the Demons have their place, if so, it's angels you'll create.


Edited by Veter (12/18/07 02:40 AM)


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772722 - 12/18/07 02:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Plenty of people can learn a lot from psychedelics without believing anything spiritual. Psychedelics don't have to either be just a chemical imbalance in your brain, or a spiritual tool- you can use them for self-exploration and inner growth regardless of your beliefs.

Like a lot of people, I was a cynical atheist before I did psychedelics and got turned on to what you might call the Clear Light. All-pervasive, vibrating, pure positive energy. Then again, there's not necessarily anything spiritual about that. If I was to talk about my "spiritual" experiences in atheist terms I'd just say I became aware of energy fields I hadn't previously known about.

Spirituality is to do with different planes of being and levels of awareness, in my opinion. You can lead a thoroughly spiritual life style without thinking everything in the universe was created and is maintained by an all-powerful conscious being.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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OfflineMeatyVitamin
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: benrules92]
    #7772725 - 12/18/07 02:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not saying an atheist wouldn't want to do shrooms, I'm just wondering the reasons why one would.


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I like to keep my work life and my home life seperate. My job doesn't know I have a wife, and my wife doesn't know I have a job.


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Offlinesomebody041
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772733 - 12/18/07 02:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MeatyVitamin said:
I'm not saying an atheist wouldn't want to do shrooms, I'm just wondering the reasons why one would.




cause they wanna trip balls, duh


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OfflineMeatyVitamin
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: somebody041]
    #7772735 - 12/18/07 02:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Haha, thats the obvious answer. I was just exploring other reasons for use by atheists.


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I like to keep my work life and my home life seperate. My job doesn't know I have a wife, and my wife doesn't know I have a job.


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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772743 - 12/18/07 02:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

what about mushrooms draw you more than other types of drugs?


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Invisibleawesomebastard
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772747 - 12/18/07 02:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

dude i used to use them because of my extreme obsession of what makes people tick, what makes them the way they, are doing this is so easy especially on lsd and ayahausca. i also use them to step to an outsiders perspective and view this disease known as humans as a stranger, sometims an outsider can provide the best insight onto a sitaution, also nothing is more beutifull than staring into the heavens while in the middle of an lsd trip i mean nothing.
art, poetry so many opportunities u have the key to open the door to true and untouched creativity the only thing that really matters in this fucked up existance we call reality.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."


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OfflineMeatyVitamin
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #7772748 - 12/18/07 02:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I only say mushrooms because it is what I have experience with, a comparison to drugs I have no access or necessary want to try for the moment isn't particularly useful. I also read an interesting article linking mushrooms and spiritual experiences which got me thinking.


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I like to keep my work life and my home life seperate. My job doesn't know I have a wife, and my wife doesn't know I have a job.


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InvisibleCrake
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772771 - 12/18/07 03:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Why would an atheist do shrooms? Self exploration would be my guess. I wouldn't know because in the end I really wouldn't know ANYTHING now would I?


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MANGO

Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772788 - 12/18/07 03:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I first got into psychedelics, as an atheist, because I had severe insomnia and thought some revealing of my subconscious might explain why I couldn't sleep, and maybe even silence my inner noise.

Like benrules said- why would an atheist not want to do mushrooms? There can be many benefits that come as a result of psychedelics, it doesn't just have to be spiritual advancement.

An atheist can still gain knowledge of themselves and the world, help overcome their ego and totally change and improve the way they relate to other people. That aside, they could just want to take psychedelics for fun. Psychedelics have a tendency to just shatter one's preconceptions and beliefs, so whatever you believe before the experience, you'll probably gain the same thing from it as someone with totally different views.

That said, if you're enough of a scum bag, psychedelics aren't going to fix you, as MK ULTRA proved.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7772828 - 12/18/07 04:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

To me, God, entities, spirits, the Whole concept of what it means to be spiritual and related segments of thought (heaven, hell, daemons) are merely words to desribe un-deniable qualities your own neurology can give your awareness.

In a way, no one is beyond their own neurology; thus you could look at the concept of Atheism as a blanket label as describing your current neurological arrangement. I have had many arrangements deserving of many labels, Athiest and God Mind included.


--------------------

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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7772836 - 12/18/07 04:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

To me, God, entities, spirits, the Whole concept of what it means to be spiritual and related segments of thought (heaven, hell, daemons) are merely words to desribe un-deniable qualities your own neurology can give your awareness.




Indeedy do. Angels, heaven, hell, Clear Light, and God are all realms of consciousness. :thumbup:


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7772841 - 12/18/07 04:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I rolled dice to get to most of those places!:awesome:


--------------------

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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7772852 - 12/18/07 05:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah? I took acid.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7772869 - 12/18/07 05:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hey, man, if you got a 20-sider that rolls true, a trade might be in order;-)


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

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Offlinec0_hush
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7772893 - 12/18/07 05:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with Apollyphelion, I believe all these "experiences" are part of our consciousness and the idea of a higher power is similar in many cultures depending on learned [religious] ideas and expectations...


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OfflineFrosty_Storm
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: c0_hush]
    #7772900 - 12/18/07 06:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am atheist and there is still a spiritual aura to them for me. For me spirituality has nothing to do with religion, I still believe in the spirit and that everyone has one. It is what drives us and I think mushrooms lsd or other hallucinogens are an amazing way to explore yourself. My personal beliefs go along the lines of becoming enlightened and live a truly happy life along with my fellow man.

Plus they are fun!


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Shrowded in an angelic white veil of darkness
~Frosty Storm~


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Offlinehandicappedrat
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772925 - 12/18/07 06:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am an agnostic. I take shrooms and LSD with complete skepticism as far as spiritual experiences go. I take them because they'll either make an adventure out of my day, make boring situations crazy, etc, or because psychedelics show me the impossible. Sure, it's drug induced, but that doesn't change the fact that it is something that you cannot comprehend.

They're extraordinary for me, but I don't think of them as a spiritual thing. I don't look down on people who do treat them as such though. Sometimes I meditate on pot and shrooms but it isn't really a spiritual meditation. I believe my mind is a universe, and whether it's operating on chemicals or a spiritual level doesn't mean I can't really explore the depths of it.


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Offlineclover606
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7772960 - 12/18/07 07:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MeatyVitamin said:
Furthermore would a trip even have any lasting relevance to an atheist?




i dont think anyone could trip on mushrooms and be like 'yeah i guess it was ok...' afterwards. its usually a pretty life changing journey.
Quote:


I ask these things because I find myself inexplicably attracted to the effects of shrooms; an attraction that goes beyond "its fun to trip" but I can't quite place it. Almost a spiritual aura to it, but in my mind there is no room for religion or spirituality.




maybe its because as a human being, its your nature to be drawn to the spiritual, but because your so convinced its bullshit, your subconscience just found a new way to get its fix of spirituality. after all mushrooms and other entheogens are most likely the root of the first religious and spiritual thought anyway


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grassman said:

I remember being in DARE when i was much younger and some of the stories they would tell you are not only ridiculous, but completely untrue. One story was that a woman was on LSD and thought her infant was a turkey so she baked it in the oven. Now I look back and think thats hilarious, but at the time I guess it scared me.


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Offlineclover606
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Frosty_Storm]
    #7772967 - 12/18/07 07:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Frosty_Storm said:
I am atheist and there is still a spiritual aura to them for me. For me spirituality has nothing to do with religion, I still believe in the spirit and that everyone has one. It is what drives us and I think mushrooms lsd or other hallucinogens are an amazing way to explore yourself. My personal beliefs go along the lines of becoming enlightened and live a truly happy life along with my fellow man.

Plus they are fun!




well said


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grassman said:

I remember being in DARE when i was much younger and some of the stories they would tell you are not only ridiculous, but completely untrue. One story was that a woman was on LSD and thought her infant was a turkey so she baked it in the oven. Now I look back and think thats hilarious, but at the time I guess it scared me.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: clover606]
    #7772971 - 12/18/07 07:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

agreed.


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

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Offlinepasteface
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7773094 - 12/18/07 08:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MeatyVitamin said:
I'm not saying an atheist wouldn't want to do shrooms, I'm just wondering the reasons why one would.




I personally take LSD and shrooms to make sure I never forget about the automatic filtering my brain is doing constantly. No matter how sure that I am right about something I can always be wrong. There are billions of people on this planet and if you actually sat down and talked to each of them about their spiritual beliefs I'm sure you'd find at the least slight differences and at most completely opposite view points. There is no one way to look at a problem and psychedelics help me by reminding me to step back and look at this in a completely different way. Often I either reaffirm my beliefs through that by coming to the same conclusion a different way or realize a million other possibilities and ideas I need to sort through. Ontop of that not every trip has to be a mind altering experience, sometimes its just fun to get together with friends and go balls-ass-out-of-our-minds, talk in weird metaphores for what we actually mean because our minds are racing and we cant stop long enough to actually talk.

Besides, what other drugs can make you appreciate the full beauty to be found in your own wall. :wink:


--------------------
"In this state, dig it, you get twenty years for sale of dope to a minor. You only get five to ten for manslaughter. So like the thing is, if you're selling to a kid and cops come, shoot the kid real quick!" - Abbie Hoffman


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OfflineMcLovin727
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Frosty_Storm]
    #7773147 - 12/18/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Frosty_Storm said:
I am atheist and there is still a spiritual aura to them for me. For me spirituality has nothing to do with religion, I still believe in the spirit and that everyone has one. It is what drives us and I think mushrooms lsd or other hallucinogens are an amazing way to explore yourself. My personal beliefs go along the lines of becoming enlightened and live a truly happy life along with my fellow man.

Plus they are fun!





I agree 110% except I am Agnostic and not Athiest.


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OfflineMorphMan
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7773273 - 12/18/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am an Atheist but I have had many, many eye-opening "spiritual" experiences on mushrooms. Atheism has nothing to do with spirituality, it has to do with the dis-belief in a deity or deities. I don't believe in a "god" or invisible man in the sky, but I DO believe something is going on here. So, I would trip to better understand the world around me, and I don't agree with you that tripping is "just a chemical imbalance in the brain." That isn't even true...


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Offlinehaymaker
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7773411 - 12/18/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm an atheist... or atleast i WAS, im not too sure now.

i still dont follow a religion, but i respect nature as the bringer of life, and that you have to contribute to the planet and respect it.


--------------------
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7773453 - 12/18/07 11:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

for fun or for inner exploration??


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OfflineBalkon
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7773729 - 12/18/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Do not mix-up spirituality and religion.

A spiritual person does not HAVE to believe in a god, it simply means you belive there could be another form of existance after death.

I'm an agnostic, but I still find many biblistic views very wrong. I believe it would take infinite knowledge to understand an infinitely powerful being (God).

As for an Atheist taking shrooms? Perfectly fine, people do it all the time and usually gain a spiritual outlook afterwards. Psilocin is a chemical that alters your thinking, and opens up a door to your sub-conscious, which we all know is the more psychic and knowing part of our brain.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7773733 - 12/18/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was raised an atheist, by a family that was ardently atheist. It is in fact my psychedelic experiences that have led me to believe atheism is just another system of belief, whose believers simply like to think that they don't have a belief system...when in fact their choice of "non-belief" is a belief system all in its own. I think psychedelics can be a key for many people to experience religion the way it should be experienced - as an internal processing of one's relation with the external world...to me psychedelics absolutely challenge the concepts behind organized religion and internalize the religious experience and make it much deeper than any surface joining in of group ritual could do....too much to say on this topic, really.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7773775 - 12/18/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I think you've got the wrong attitude if you take mushrooms with your beliefs already fixed. If you've decided you ARE an atheist there is no more reason to take mushrooms than if you are christian fundamentalist because the real point of psychedelics is that they show you things beyond your habitual point of view.

I suggest that if you are into psychedelics take an ideological moratorium, because you aren't going to get much out of them if you are already commited to one point of view.

I know every brain is different. I have never had fun on mushrooms though I have had profound spiritual experiences. In fact mushrooms are probobly one of the last things I would choose for having fun, for me they are extremely intense, volatile and even scary, but nonetheless I consider them very sacred and spiritual substances.

If you really want there is no theology required for the psychotherapeautic view, the idea is to explore your unconscious mind and maybe fix a few things that are out of alignment. Acid in particular has had a very positive impact in making me more of an existentialist. That said, most of the people that started using psychedelics for exploring the mind became very spiritual minded in the end.

However, if you can do them and only care about looking at pretty colors it will probobly get old and you will eventually get more than you bargained for.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7773784 - 12/18/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EllisDSox said:
Yeah? I took acid.




That'll do it! Yeehaw!


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineAzrah
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7773844 - 12/18/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Im a complete atheist, and shrooms has not changed that at all. I am spiritual, but I dont link spirituality to religion. And shrooms helps me achieve this spirituality. My psychedelic use is in lieu of not having a religion basically.


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OfflineBanana03
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7773878 - 12/18/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm an atheist that trips. I don't really believe in a higher power. But I'm open to abunch of other crazy possibilities that explain what's going on.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Banana03]
    #7774001 - 12/18/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

atheist is like one of my most unlied words
no offence.
i mean what the fuck is that supposed to mean.
trip your balls of and dont worry about silly words and labels


--------------------




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OfflineShamanintraining
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7774118 - 12/18/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MeatyVitamin said:
I was wondering if there are any other atheists on these boards who do shrooms. Many people talk about spiritual experiences or other instances seemingly supernatural as reasons to take shrooms, as a method of expanding your mind in these ways. But I can't think of any reason to do shrooms other than they are a fun thing to do. Having said that, I truly want to believe that there is something to be learned or experienced through the use of hallucinogens.

What I'm trying to get at is why would an atheist do shrooms knowing full-well (if only in in their own mind) that the result will be nothing more than a chemical imbalance temporarily altering the way we perceive the world. Furthermore would a trip even have any lasting relevance to an atheist?

I ask these things because I find myself inexplicably attracted to the effects of shrooms; an attraction that goes beyond "its fun to trip" but I can't quite place it. Almost a spiritual aura to it, but in my mind there is no room for religion or spirituality.





LSD made be believe in something, but I'm not sure what.


--------------------



"Leave your mind alone and just get high"


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Shamanintraining]
    #7774233 - 12/18/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Smoke some Salvia or DMT then come back and tell me you don't believe in trans-dimensional entities. Go in with an open mind though, I think that's the key.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7774263 - 12/18/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I eat mushrooms to make Robot Chicken more entertaining.


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OfflineOrbital_Saucer
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7774414 - 12/18/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
To me, God, entities, spirits, the Whole concept of what it means to be spiritual and related segments of thought (heaven, hell, daemons) are merely words to desribe un-deniable qualities your own neurology can give your awareness.

In a way, no one is beyond their own neurology; thus you could look at the concept of Atheism as a blanket label as describing your current neurological arrangement. I have had many arrangements deserving of many labels, Athiest and God Mind included.




Spoken like a true atheist. :wink:


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OfflinePoisonedV
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7774457 - 12/18/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Atheism for the win.


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Lazy...


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: PoisonedV]
    #7774513 - 12/18/07 04:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm an atheist, and I can't imagine tripping is any less special or 'real' for me than it is for a theist.

I almost don't know how to answer this question. If/when I meet entities while tripping i don't come away thinking it was god, I come away thinking it was part of myself (albeit a very abstract part of my subconscious). I don't think it was 'just a hallucination,' to me any experience i have while tripping is very real and worthwhile.

I'm one of the few people who remained as much a cynical atheist after i started tripping as before.

BTW, I disagree with those who say Atheism is as much a religion as a belief in god. For some people it might be, but I know at least for me atheism is simply the only possible answer I can logically accept about god. I would have to write pages to explain why but for now I'll leave it at that.

And one more thing. Agnostic is not an alternative to atheism or theism. You're one or the other. If you don't actively believe in god, you're an atheist.


--------------------
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Offlinewireless
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7774643 - 12/18/07 05:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MeatyVitamin said:
I'm not saying an atheist wouldn't want to do shrooms, I'm just wondering the reasons why one would.





Because they want to learn more about themselves. I at one point considered myself an atheist, mostly out of ignorance. Then I began using drugs and considered myself an agnostic. Now I consider myself a Deist and somewhat of a transcendentalist. In reality we are ALL agnostics because that's a fact. We really don't know, but that doesn't change your faith. I find faith absolutely necessary to live a happy and productive life and it is critical that the world has it to. Without it we would live in anarchy and chaos because faith is what allows us to develop a sense of morals as a community. Yes individuals might have morals but as a group faith allows us to create laws which are all based off morals which are taught from religion.


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InvisibleTTT
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: wireless]
    #7774958 - 12/18/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wireless said:
Quote:

MeatyVitamin said:
I'm not saying an atheist wouldn't want to do shrooms, I'm just wondering the reasons why one would.





Because they want to learn more about themselves. I at one point considered myself an atheist, mostly out of ignorance. Then I began using drugs and considered myself an agnostic. Now I consider myself a Deist and somewhat of a transcendentalist. In reality we are ALL agnostics because that's a fact. We really don't know, but that doesn't change your faith. I find faith absolutely necessary to live a happy and productive life and it is critical that the world has it to. Without it we would live in anarchy and chaos because faith is what allows us to develop a sense of morals as a community. Yes individuals might have morals but as a group faith allows us to create laws which are all based off morals which are taught from religion.




Laws that not everyone would agree with. People have different views and this thread is a great example of that. Itd be impossible imo for everyone to agree on everything 100%, which is what itd probably take for a society like the one you described, to run properly.

Anyway, ignore me Im stoned and rambling


Besides, isnt that what conservative politicians are doing?

an·ar·chy /ˈænərki/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-er-kee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a state of society without government or law.
2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.


I like the 3rd best.


Edited by TTT (12/18/07 06:46 PM)


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: g00ru]
    #7775080 - 12/18/07 07:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
If/when I meet entities while tripping i don't come away thinking it was god, I come away thinking it was part of myself (albeit a very abstract part of my subconscious). I don't think it was 'just a hallucination,' to me any experience i have while tripping is very real and worthwhile.





I think you are on to something, but I would go a step further and ask what is REALLY the difference? Are our minds and the world around us seperate things? I mean if everything is in your mind when you talk to your freinds are they any more real than mushroom entities?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlinekody260z
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #7775237 - 12/18/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yeah I don't think it makes a difference - an atheist can easily have the same kind of spiritual, eye opening experience that taps into unknown forces and potentials without attributing it to some "God"...


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Offlinesymbiotic
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: kody260z]
    #7776478 - 12/19/07 04:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I believe that the truth of the matter is far more terrifying, that the real truth that dare not speak itself is that no one is in control, absolutely no one. This stuff is ruled by the equations of dynamics and chaos. There may be entities seeking control, but to seek control is to take enormous aggravation upon yourself. It's like trying to control a dream.-Terence Mckenna


--------------------
The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
    #7776490 - 12/19/07 04:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was a straight up atheist...a few acid and shroom trips later I decided I couldn't be sure about what's out there either way.

I've found the only honest answer to all the big questions about our existence is 'I don't know'.

seems to me that's the way it's supposed to be. no one knows, and no one is supposed to. just enjoy the ride.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: substraight]
    #7776495 - 12/19/07 04:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

As far as looking for the answer to all questions I have finally came to the conclusion...that there is no conclusion.


--------------------
The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.


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OfflineMindGorilla
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7776586 - 12/19/07 06:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What is spirituality to you meaty? I myself don't believe in god, but am a very spiritual person. I can feel connected with mother earth and the people around me, because I don't need a God to feel that way.



I think to be Atheist and rule out the fact of a God is more of a statement then it is a belief. I agree that pretty much any religion that came from man or earth is bogus. Although you have to consider all the powers and entities in our never ending universe, you simply can't know enough to say there isn't a god.


It sounds like you have your head so set on being Atheist you are not giving the mushrooms a chance to show you the "way".


Like Ellis profile.

"Rather than continuing to seek the truth, simply let go of your views." Gautama Buddha.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7776820 - 12/19/07 09:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i love shrooms!


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Offlinesymbiotic
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7777063 - 12/19/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"Beliefs build walls" Religion is the same pagan sun worshipping story that has been repeated hundreds of times...but with the same story line three wise men follow star to find messiah, messiahs born of a virgin whose name starts with the letter M, messiah starts teachings at age 30, crucified, rises again three days later...it's been the same fucking story repeated since the egyptians, look it up.


--------------------
The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.


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Invisiblethoughts
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
    #7777085 - 12/19/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

there are two ways but one truth. thats pretty much the reality pf it all.


wjhich is which. you tell me who the fuck knows. so the question isnt about who is atheist or not. its about what is real and what is not.


and the anzswer? yes


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OfflineSCleROTiUM_LICK
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7777114 - 12/19/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Why does an atheist cross a road?

To get to the other side probably.

Is every action you take informed by your atheism?
If not, then why would tripping be any different.

If tripping equates to a divine experience in your mind, then you are not an atheist, you are just someone who has turned their back on a God in whom they believe.

Surely you realize that for everyone experiencing the divine in a drug, more experience the divine without it. Some see God in nature- will you no longer take hikes? Some see the image of God in shadows and stains- will you confine yourself to freshly painted, well lit rooms?

That being said- I don't think anyone should provide anyone else with a reason for tripping. But I hope I've helped to show that the two are not necessarily inconsistent.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7777131 - 12/19/07 10:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

you'r talkin to me about god when my name says i do not believe in god :confused:

iv read countless threads where people say DMT or shrooms or LSD is spiritual and so on....

uhhhhh they are fucking DRUGS and it is all in your BRAINS,
those spirits you see when you hit the DMT pipe or eat shrooms ARE ALL IN YOUR HEAD


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OfflineMotorCityMadman
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7777298 - 12/19/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ha, this thread makes me chuckle.

I was an agnostic until I started tripping. Now I am an atheist.

Why? Because shrooms gave me a deeper understanding of REALITY.

My corner of it anyway. YMMV. :smile:


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7777350 - 12/19/07 11:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

you'r talkin to me about god when my name says i do not believe in god

iv read countless threads where people say DMT or shrooms or LSD is spiritual and so on....

uhhhhh they are fucking DRUGS and it is all in your BRAINS,
those spirits you see when you hit the DMT pipe or eat shrooms ARE ALL IN YOUR HEAD




You're a walking sack of crap, as am I, and all humans. The Earth is just a stupid sphere flying through a black, desolate hell hole with stupid giant lights shining in it. Love is a chemical imbalance in your brain. Happiness is just serotonin and dopamine. Wellbeing is just a result of your natural drives being fulfilled. Your brain is just a worthless piece of trash with electronic signals going through it.

You see what I'm doing here? I'm describing things from a very negative, cynical point of view. Does this change the significance of any of these things? No.

All experience is, to an incredibly large degree, internal. Your comments are just seeing things from a cynical point of view, and don't really mean much. It's just a matter of words. I don't mean this to sound harsh towards you- I'm sure you're a mighty swell guy, but what you just said is basically just sophistry. When two people make love, you could just say they are two animals screwing- nothing in the act or the meaning they find in it will have changed.

You are entirely right that these things are in your head, but then again, you don't experience an objective universe- all of what you experience is in your head- it's basically your mind's conception of an objective universe.

I personally agree with what you're saying, and think that spiritual states are realms of consciousness, and that deities are largely beings within the human mind. Does this make them any less significant? Do you disregard your limbs because they're a part of you?

If anything, these things are infinitely more important when you realise that spiritual occurances are constantly happening within your consciousness. A deity or entity has a significance to you if it's a part of you- if it was a totally external being going about its own business, why would you care at all? God, in my view, is simply a state of totally pure awareness. You reach this state by advancing through your own consciousness, not by begging an external being to show himself to you. You have to open your eyes to see the light.

Now, I don't want to seem like I'm pushing views on you here. If you have no spiritual beliefs at all, then I really think you probably shouldn't- I don't have too much faith in anything I haven't personally experienced, and neither should you.

However, your argument is really quite silly. The same could be said of anything. Meditation isn't spiritual it's just AIR going into your NOSE! Love isn't meaningful, it's just FEELINGS in your BRAIN! The experience is what's important, not how it's induced. There are these wonderful chemicals that can, even from a totally cynical and neurological point of view, open our minds (or brains, if you want to go there).

To disregard things simply because they are in your own head is really quite bizarre. Your love for others is in your head. Even Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of God being within yourself. Spiritual states of consciousness and what we can bring back from them into this world don't lose one tiny piece of their significance simply because they are not the result of an external entity. I always feel, very distinctly, during a trip, that aspects of my consciousness are being painted all over my external universe, and I can see what's happening inside me and outside me.

There is a type of mystical experience, which many people have reported, with or without psychedelics, in which a golden/white light made of pure positive energy totally permeates one's reality. Does the fact that this comes from inside us make it more or less significant? More, in my opinion.

It's strange how things have changed. Once upon a time a religious majority persecuted atheists mercilessly. I have met maybe one or two religious people who were intolerant of atheists in my life. I know dozens upon dozens of atheists who utterly loath people with any kind of spiritual belief. If you don't see things in a spiritual way, then that's totally your choice and I respect that 100%, but you're acting as if people are being stupid when they interpret internal experiences as somehow significant.


--------------------
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OfflineChesterCopperpot
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MotorCityMadman]
    #7777368 - 12/19/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

When I first started using LSD and shrooms they made me a more spiritual person. But over time they lost that sort of "this is going to change the world!" energy and instead took me to deeper and deeper levels of self reflection. Today I am definatly an atheist and I would say that shrooms assisted me in coming to that mindset. I describe tripping as thinking and feeling absolutly HUMAN, almost TOO human. Remembering that I am a mortal being can be both revealing and terrifying. I do believe there are very powerful and misunderstood forces in this universe but I accept that I will never understand them.


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This goes out to The Bearded Men of Space Station 11.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: ChesterCopperpot]
    #7777405 - 12/19/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

'Maybe if you weren't so scared of death, you'd be more ready to live.'-From a "dead" leaf.


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The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
    #7777608 - 12/19/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

If god is an invisible judging man in the clouds that is more powerful than any other being and can send you to hell, I don't believe in such a thing. Do I believe in a 'motivating force' behind all of life, yes.
'...the substance of your material world is basically electrical particles agitated at high speed within ‘space’, your science is unable to tell you ‘why’ such ‘energy particles’ take on the density and form of ‘matter’ except to speak of forces of fusion which happen to create the elements. Science cannot tell you what is the ‘Motivating Force’ which draws particles into the form of elements. Neither can science tell you from whence such energy particles originally came except to say that they were released during the time of the Big Bang which they believe gave the first impetus to creation. Why a sudden ‘Big Bang’ - of what? What was the Motivating Factor behind it?
Science speaks about electromagnetism but cannot say from whence come such energies which appear and disappear. Where do they go? Why do they come back? From the human perspective, there appears to be no intelligible activity within or behind its work. Science says that electromagnetism ‘just is’ - a simple fact of existence - yet it produces highly purposeful and intelligent work in the form of millions of billions of substances of which your universe is made. How does this happen? There is nothing that electromagnetism has brought into visible being which the human mind can deem to be lacking purpose or meaning. Science ignores this most basic and vital level of creation. Without an answer to this question, as to why everything which has been brought into visible manifestation by the activity of the twin energies of electromagnetism is invariably purposeful, successful and rational, - nothing of any value in the search for your origins will be discovered. Until science can probe and discover the ‘Reality’ of the ‘space’ in which electrical particles of ‘visible being’ are supported, science will forever remain behind locked doors of materialism. It will be barred to eternal Truth and universal wisdom and imprisoned within the bondage of reason alone - reason which is solely the product of the finite activity of brain cells. It is to the true nature of the SPACE I intend to introduce you too. To discover your true SOURCE of BEING, I ask you to take stock of the unimaginable and indescribable complexity and diversity of purposeful work plainly evident in penguins and pigs. Can the human mind replicate any of the most basic of activities within - say - the digestive system, which swiftly summons up the requisite enzymes and hormones necessary for digestion. How dare the finite mind, which is incapable of perceiving clearly the true creative process governed by instinctual knowledge, presume to state unequivocally, - defying contradicition, - that it understands the true origins of creation and the forces out of which creation took form?
What arrogance! These men can only think according to what their eyes tell them.
I view the present scientific ignorance with loving compassion, a degree of amusement, and a great all consuming passion to puncture their pride. For, until someone can penetrate their self- satisfaction and position of infallibility, a true mating of Eternal Verities and human scientific knowledge can never take place. But it must take place, otherwise human spiritual evolution will remain at a standstill. The scientific mind is too full of ‘finitely’ devised book lore, accepted formulas and equations, and the need for their fellows’ approval, to permit mystical penetration by Higher Intelligences.
On my behalf, I ask readers of these Letters, to form an association to challenge Science and ask ‘at what point in the evolution of the ‘material’ world’ is CONSCIOUSNESS first discernible? I repeat and mean what I say: Ask the scientist at what point in the evolution of the world is ‘consciousness’ first discernible. In the living cell? If in the living cell, ask whether it was discernible in the living molecules which combined to make a cell and encase itself in such an intelligently designed membrane, permitting the intake of selected food and excretion of toxic waste? How does it recognise toxic waste? And if it should be conceded that consciousness might be present in living molecules, should you not ask whether the chemical properties which became a living molecule might not themselves have possessed ‘consciousness’ which eventually impelled and propelled them into the life-giving combination to make a molecule? And having gone back thus far into the origins of existence, - the chemical properties - you must still question why ‘consciousness’ should only become a viable presence within the chemicals - why not within the elements in which individuality first took shape, and if in the elements why should it be denied that ‘consciousness’ propels the electrical particles to form the elements? Is it rational to deny such a possibility? And having reached such a possibility, should you not go further and ask from whence comes electromagnetism? What is the ‘reality’ of electricity more than streaks of fierce light now described by science as photons and electrons? And what is the ‘reality’ of magnetism more than two-fold energies of ‘bonding and rejection’ - energy impulses which have brought stability and order into chaos? Ask science: “From whence comes electromagnetism which is responsible for the most basic steps in the creation of an ordered and orderly universe of an umimaginable complexity and diversity?” There are many who have experienced a little ‘burst of insight’, have briefly felt a touch of ‘Divine Consciousness’ and then, hardly daring to continue to believe in such a transcendant moment of awareness, have begun to question, doubt and finally dispel the little inflow of ‘Divine Consciousness’. Beware you do not do this. Disbelief will set you back, enmesh you in the material plane of existence more than you will ever know. Whatever you are given and able to receive - hold fast to it and do not doubt. Doubt destroys steady progress because it creates its own ‘consciousness forms’ which will suppress and even eradicate the insight you had gained previously. Therefore, your choice of thoughts, - belief or disbelief, doubt or faith, construct or destroy your progress in your search for TRUTH. Any denial erases from your consciousness the progress which has been previously made. Furthermore, the higher you ascend in spiritual truth, the more powerful do your thoughts become. Indeed, I have made numerous efforts to describe the immensity of the Power out of which all things have come but as I have said, it is impossible for me to describe in human terms the Reality of the SOURCE of your BEING.
Those spiritually evolved souls who have been lightly infused with Divine Consciousness report the experience to be utterly beautiful and glorious and entirely unforgettable , - but still not fully describable in human terms. This mystical experience is possible when the frequencies of vibration of the mind are already raised and the entire consciousness is suffused with rays of Divine Consciousness. It is a condition that involves the ‘feelings’ more than the intellect and brain cells. I want to make it manifestly clear that: ‘Nothing ever comes from Nothing’. This is a well known saying amongst you, and a perfectly true one. However, there is an eternal, infinite, consistent FOUNDATION of BEINGNESS - and THIS I am going to reveal to you. You have not been ‘created’ - you have drawn your ‘being’ from IT. Obviously, you could not have come from something entirely foreign to your own consciousness. I am asking my recorder to choose some mundane understandable examples:
You could not squeeze an orange and make ginger beer from the juice.
You could not fill a balloon with air, pop it and find it was dripping jelly.

Your universe is CAUSE & EFFECT made visible. This is an undeviating principle of existence. If there are instances of deviations such as paranormal experiences or instantaneous healings, the average person exclaims in astonishment and science refuses to believe that such a thing is possible. As my explanation deepens, you will eventually understand how such deviations take place - logically and effectually. In other words, these deviations occur according to natural spiritual laws and always serve a necessary purpose. Nowhere is there any mindlessness in creation - even in the ant or gnat.

Here it goes.

ALL (spiritual, unseen/seen/imagined) is CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS.
The primary comprehensive nature of CONSCIOUSNESS is AWARENESS.
It is not possible to have consciousness without possessing awareness.
All that you see, all that you touch, hear, feel, know is CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS made visible. There is nothing in the universe that is not CONSCIOUSNESS made visible. CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS is infinite and eternal. There are TWO DIMENSIONS of CONSCIOUSNESS both beyond and within your own earthly plane of existence - the plane of heavy ‘matter’, ‘solid form’. The ULTIMATE UNIVERSAL DIMENSION of CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS can never be fully or truly known by an individualised spirit.
IT IS INACCESSIBLE.
IT IS IN EQUILIBRIUM.
IT is the ONLY SOURCE of all POWER, WISDOM, LOVE, INTELLIGENCE.
The UNIVERSAL DIMENSION of CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS in equilibrium is a state of SILENCE & STILLNESS out of which come sound, colour, individualised form, and all visible creativity within the visible universe.

Out of ULTIMATE UNIVERSAL DIMENSION of CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS in equilibrium has come all of creation - all the various unseen dimensions of existence descending in order of spirituality from the very portals of the UNIVERSAL DIMENSION down to the most ponderous vibrational frquencies of inanimate earthly substances and beyond into unspeakable horrors of consciousness perversions and anti-Truth.

This ULTIMATE UNIVERSAL DIMENSION of CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS is not only in space IT IS ALL SPACE - IT is undetectibly everywhere. For those who think in terms of atoms - you can say IT is the SPACE in the atom - therefore, IT is ‘in silence and equilibrium’ within the ‘space’ of all elements and ‘matter’. The NATURE of UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS is:
INTENT inactive and in equilibrium
Therefore, Universal Consciousness is an infinite, eternal, limitless, boundless, state of
POWERFUL INTENT - pristine, pure, beautiful.
This INTENT is to
EXPRESS Its NATURE.

UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS NATURE:
INTENT is the ALLNESS of WILL & PURPOSE
always locked in ‘embrace’
The Universal Will is: to move out and create.
The Universal Purpose is: to give individual form to creation and experience it.
Within the ULTIMATE UNIVERSAL DIMENSION OF CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS INTENT UNIVERSAL WILL is in a state of mutual restraint - with UNIVERSAL PURPOSE
both in perfect equilibrium
within SILENCE & STILLNESS
UNIVERSAL WILL is UNIVERSAL INTELLIGENCE
UNIVERSAL PURPOSE is UNIVERSAL LOVE universally in equilibrium - in mutual restraint.
out of WHICH all things visible and invisible and human impulses have taken form.
If you could receive the fullness of UNIVERSAL REALITY into yourself, you would be
disintegrated by IT’s explosive power and dissolved into formless consciousness/awareness.
IT as far transcends the individual humanhood as the heat and light of your sun is
billions times more powerful than the light of your fireflies flickering in darkness.

Now, to you who are so aware of the equality of genders, I speak of:
‘FATHER-MOTHER-CONSCIOUSNESS’ in equilibrium
within UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS where
‘Father Consciousness - is - Universal Intelligence’
‘Mother Consciousness - is - Universal Love the TOOL of ‘Father Consciousness’ creative energy - electricity is in a state of mutual restraint - equilibrium with the TOOLS of ‘ Mother Consciousness’ creative energy - magnetism
Because ‘FATHER-MOTHER’ tools: electro-magnetism is in equilibrium within
UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS IT will never be detected within SPACE by scientists no matter how they may probe space.
The IMPULSE : ‘Father Consciousness WILL’ is INTELLIGENT ACTIVITY
in equilibrium with
The IMPULSE: ‘Mother Consciousness’ PURPOSE’ is NURTURING for SURVIVAL

‘FATHER-MOTHER CONSCIOUSNESS’ is a powerful impersonal FORCE - yet IT is personal for you even before you seek to make contact with IT. As you evolve spiritually, you will feel IT - for IT is the REALITY of BEING IT is everywhere and within everything .

FATHER CONSCIOUSNESS is the INTELLIGENT LOVE Which gives intelligent energy and momentum to the world of complex forms - expressed physically as electricity.
MOTHER PURPOSE is the LOVING INTELLIGENCE Which gives purpose and the impulse for survival to the individualised complex forms - expressed as magnetism - bonding & repulsion.
These are the UNIVERSAL PRIMAL IMPULSES of ALL BEING of UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS
your SOURCE OF BEING - INTELLIGENCE-LOVE This is the STATE OF BEING before creation. CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS within a STATE OF EQUILIBRIUM.

Namaste.


--------------------
The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.


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OfflineMeatyVitamin
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MindGorilla]
    #7777737 - 12/19/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MindGorilla said:
What is spirituality to you meaty? I myself don't believe in god, but am a very spiritual person. I can feel connected with mother earth and the people around me, because I don't need a God to feel that way.






You make a good point here, i always associated spirituality directly with the belief in a God or supernatural forces. But (after reading many of your posts) I think spirituality can apply to all systems of belief be it theist, atheist, or agnostic. I never really thought spirituality could apply to inner reflection and individual development, but I think that might be what I'm looking for.


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I like to keep my work life and my home life seperate. My job doesn't know I have a wife, and my wife doesn't know I have a job.


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OfflineMeatyVitamin
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: ChesterCopperpot]
    #7777772 - 12/19/07 01:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm getting some mixed reviews on this board, most people think that the drugs are linked to spirituality. But it seems like some people are driven away from atheism by the drug, while others see it as a tool of further self-reflection and eventually an affirmation of their atheism.

Were those who gave up on atheism (or were swayed to the path of agnosticism) actual atheists in the first place or, as someone had previously mentioned, just people who turned their back on a God they in fact believe in?


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I like to keep my work life and my home life seperate. My job doesn't know I have a wife, and my wife doesn't know I have a job.


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OfflineBrainForest
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7778394 - 12/19/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Religion and spirituality seem to have taken some kind of monopoly on mystical experience. I, myself, often refer to experiences as "spiritual" despite the fact that I am an atheist, for lack of better vocabulary. I don't believe in God, I don't believe in spirits, I don't believe in the soul, I don't believe in free will, I don't believe in anything dualistic or spiritual like that.

Indeed, the psychedelic experience is a "chemical imbalance". So what?

Happiness is a chemical imbalance. Sadness is a chemical imbalance. Love is a chemical imbalance. Awe is a chemical imbalance. The perception of beauty is a chemical imbalance. All aspects of consciousness are chemical or electrical in nature.

Does this make them any less special, any less important, any less real? Of course not. The subjective perception of feeling at one with the universe, of feeling love for all things is a direct experience. You cannot be in the middle of such an experience and dismiss it's existence simply because it isn't the product of a God, or spirits, or magic unicorns that sprinkle love powder on your brain. It doesn't need to be.

The fact that such experiences are possible within the real physical world is just an indicator of how incredible reality actually is. In fact, I would say the psychedelic experience is a more exact, real look at reality than "normal" consciousness. It may not be a practical state of consciousness, but it allows us to see the possibilities that we normally shut out. The regular conscious experience our brain normally creates for us is really the filtering of perception down to tiny little windows that focus on one practical subject at a time, with all the rest of perception tossed aside into either the unconscious or the oblivion of nonexperience.

It is the disparity between this tiny window and the actual totality of perception that creates what we see as "ourselves", as a single unit that is separate from the rest of the universe. The window becomes "I", and we grow to forget that there can be anything else but this window. It's why humans seem normally so fundamentally alone...we know nothing else. When we love someone, it feels so special to us because we feel close enough to see through someone else's window. It's a small addition, but it's powerful nonetheless. And when we take a psychedelic, it starts to break down the wall around the window. It may take out a small piece, it may break a large hole. And sometimes, the whole wall comes crashing down, and we experience ego death.

Suddenly, the world shines down so brightly. There's just so much, so much to experience. Everything shines. Everything is in your mind at once; there's nothing to keep it out. It just flows in, and you're lying in the ocean of bliss, and all is one. You feel you and the universe are the same, because they are the same. You remember what it was like before the wall was built. All your perceptions go directly to experience and all there is to do is bask in it.

We come out of this thinking, "Oh my God. That was so much. There was so much...this can't possibly be a part of reality. Reality is so small and dull in comparison, there's no way what I saw was a part of that." What we don't realize is that reality seems so small and dull not because it really is, but because our brains try to keep it that way by filtering it out. They refine it down it tiny insignificant problems to focus on one at a time, because it's useful to survival. The psychedelic experience is incredibly valuable to us, but is almost never worthwhile to our genes, our DNA, so evolution just cuts it out to keep us focused on the silly matters of everyday life.

And so because of that, it seems like the psychedelic experience is not part of reality. People often do one of two things: They dismiss it as just a meaningless hallucination or chemical imbalance and think "Well that was fun...I guess I must have been really fucked up or something." Or they think "That must have come from something outside of dull physical reality...It must have been a message from a God or some kind of spiritual or supernatural force." It definitely feels like the kind of thing people describe when they talk about religious experiences or spirituality, and it may very well be the same kind of state of the brain. But that does not mean you saw God. It means you saw reality in all it's infinite possibility. That doesn't make it less special, it makes it more so.

Psychedelics are keys to unlocking the mind's perception of the infinite beauty of reality. And that is why an atheist would want to take shrooms.



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InvisibleBirdsIView
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7778716 - 12/19/07 06:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MeatyVitamin said:
I was wondering if there are any other atheists on these boards who do shrooms. Many people talk about spiritual experiences or other instances seemingly supernatural as reasons to take shrooms, as a method of expanding your mind in these ways. But I can't think of any reason to do shrooms other than they are a fun thing to do. Having said that, I truly want to believe that there is something to be learned or experienced through the use of hallucinogens.

What I'm trying to get at is why would an atheist do shrooms knowing full-well (if only in in their own mind) that the result will be nothing more than a chemical imbalance temporarily altering the way we perceive the world. Furthermore would a trip even have any lasting relevance to an atheist?

I ask these things because I find myself inexplicably attracted to the effects of shrooms; an attraction that goes beyond "its fun to trip" but I can't quite place it. Almost a spiritual aura to it, but in my mind there is no room for religion or spirituality.




I give shrooms a lot of the credit for why I don't consider myself an atheist today. I can't exactly remember when I started to feel that there's more to life than what it seems but I'm almost positive it came partly as a result of my experience on shrooms. The major thing it allowed me to get past was my ego, and feeling that somehow I was smarter or better than religious people because I looked at things literally. I was raised atheist and pretty much taught to laugh at the ridiculous ideas of religion. I began to realize that just because everything has an explanation doesn't mean that there's nothing else out there. There is a science for everything. If there's an afterlife or other dimensions, there's a scientific way to explain it. Basically, science does not disprove religion, it just shows how God or whomever makes things happen.

Don't be surprised if shrooms do make room in your mind for some form of spirituality.


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Offlinesymbiotic
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: BirdsIView]
    #7778749 - 12/19/07 06:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Your thoughts manifest everything in your life, if you don't think spiritual things exist that's not necesarrily true but it is true that you won't experience them...seek and you shall find. Namaste


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The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7779156 - 12/19/07 07:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EllisDSox said:
You're a walking sack of crap, as am I, and all humans. The Earth is just a stupid sphere flying through a black, desolate hell hole with stupid giant lights shining in it. Love is a chemical imbalance in your brain. Happiness is just serotonin and dopamine. Wellbeing is just a result of your natural drives being fulfilled. Your brain is just a worthless piece of trash with electronic signals going through it.

You see what I'm doing here? I'm describing things from a very negative, cynical point of view. Does this change the significance of any of these things? No.

All experience is, to an incredibly large degree, internal. Your comments are just seeing things from a cynical point of view, and don't really mean much. It's just a matter of words. I don't mean this to sound harsh towards you- I'm sure you're a mighty swell guy, but what you just said is basically just sophistry. When two people make love, you could just say they are two animals screwing- nothing in the act or the meaning they find in it will have changed.

You are entirely right that these things are in your head, but then again, you don't experience an objective universe- all of what you experience is in your head- it's basically your mind's conception of an objective universe.

I personally agree with what you're saying, and think that spiritual states are realms of consciousness, and that deities are largely beings within the human mind. Does this make them any less significant? Do you disregard your limbs because they're a part of you?

If anything, these things are infinitely more important when you realise that spiritual occurances are constantly happening within your consciousness. A deity or entity has a significance to you if it's a part of you- if it was a totally external being going about its own business, why would you care at all? God, in my view, is simply a state of totally pure awareness. You reach this state by advancing through your own consciousness, not by begging an external being to show himself to you. You have to open your eyes to see the light.

Now, I don't want to seem like I'm pushing views on you here. If you have no spiritual beliefs at all, then I really think you probably shouldn't- I don't have too much faith in anything I haven't personally experienced, and neither should you.

However, your argument is really quite silly. The same could be said of anything. Meditation isn't spiritual it's just AIR going into your NOSE! Love isn't meaningful, it's just FEELINGS in your BRAIN! The experience is what's important, not how it's induced. There are these wonderful chemicals that can, even from a totally cynical and neurological point of view, open our minds (or brains, if you want to go there).

To disregard things simply because they are in your own head is really quite bizarre. Your love for others is in your head. Even Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of God being within yourself. Spiritual states of consciousness and what we can bring back from them into this world don't lose one tiny piece of their significance simply because they are not the result of an external entity. I always feel, very distinctly, during a trip, that aspects of my consciousness are being painted all over my external universe, and I can see what's happening inside me and outside me.

There is a type of mystical experience, which many people have reported, with or without psychedelics, in which a golden/white light made of pure positive energy totally permeates one's reality. Does the fact that this comes from inside us make it more or less significant? More, in my opinion.

It's strange how things have changed. Once upon a time a religious majority persecuted atheists mercilessly. I have met maybe one or two religious people who were intolerant of atheists in my life. I know dozens upon dozens of atheists who utterly loath people with any kind of spiritual belief. If you don't see things in a spiritual way, then that's totally your choice and I respect that 100%, but you're acting as if people are being stupid when they interpret internal experiences as somehow significant.




Hell yeah! This is it exactly.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineGrylls
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7779276 - 12/19/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

May I say, that Atheism is also on the same level as religion because they too are making a 'leap of faith.' They claim there can be no God but the science they use to support that claim hardly explains it. The burden of proof is just as much on them as it is for religion claiming there is an afterlife.

I won't get into what aspects of the science does not clarify because I'm not willing to type out an essay at the moment.

I believe the best position to take is a skeptical agnostic. Not a pseudo-skeptic, who denies, but a true skeptic who is open to new experiences and data that supports or opposes a theory.

I was an atheist, and an agnostic too. I have moved into a more spiritual realm that can be described as a mix between Buddhism, Deism and Panentheism. I did not come to my position through the use of any psychedelic, but rather through meditation and other consciousness expanding practices.

I totally agree that psychedelics do give the user temporary access to a reality not available to the mind that is in the 'survival mode.' What I mean by survival mode is complete sobriety, alertness, a strong ego and no physical or mental fatigue--being grounded in the normal waking state consciousness.

While that reality is completely subjective, the experiences does have some intrinsic characteristics that have been mentioned by every traveler. Some of them being: feeling at peace, at one with oneself, bliss, empathy, interconnectedness with the universe. Also at the other end of the spectrum where the archetype of hell may have been created: pain, suffering, damnation, anxiety, fear and trepidation.

I think regardless of the person's set, he/she will always learn something new about themselves or their environment.

I invite curious Atheists to take entheogens, and let them interpret their own concepts...


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Alone in the clouds all blue.  Lying on an eiderdown.  You can't see me, but I can you.


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Offlineorigami.octopus
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #7779446 - 12/19/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

guruu said:
  If/when I meet entities while tripping i don't come away thinking it was god, I come away thinking it was part of myself (albeit a very abstract part of my subconscious).  I don't think it was 'just a hallucination,' to me any experience i have while tripping is very real and worthwhile.





I think you are on to something, but I would go a step further and ask what is REALLY the difference? Are our minds and the world around us seperate things? I mean if everything is in your mind when you talk to your freinds are they any more real than mushroom entities? 





Excellent!! glad to see you leading people in that direction. "Are our minds and the world around us separate things?"

Its all just energy isnt it? think about it some non-belivers...  :greenshroom:  = )


--------------------
I like to look at mushrooms the way most people like to look at flowers.

this is an amazing game
http://www.kongregate.com/games/customlogic/sprout


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OfflineVeter
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: origami.octopus]
    #7779737 - 12/19/07 10:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It's strange how things have changed. Once upon a time a religious majority persecuted atheists mercilessly. I have met maybe one or two religious people who were intolerant of atheists in my life. I know dozens upon dozens of atheists who utterly loath people with any kind of spiritual belief. If you don't see things in a spiritual way, then that's totally your choice and I respect that 100%, but you're acting as if people are being stupid when they interpret internal experiences as somehow significant.




I have had the opposite experience and nearly all religious people I meet find atheists appalling. These people are everywhere, and for a little bit of proof, just look at how Mike Huckabee has become the front runner of the GOP.

For the last part of your statement: What I find stupid is not religiosity, but the way that many don't understand their own beliefs, just blindly following what they've been told since birth. I am fine with a Christian who has gone through a struggle to finally choose Christianity or any other religion, but I am not ok with a religious person who believes in one aspect of science while completely embracing other aspects. These are the same people that want creationism taught in science classes.
It is hard not to think someone is stupid when they choose religion over reason 'just cause' and then use those 'beliefs' against you.


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Let the Demons have their place, if so, it's angels you'll create.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Veter]
    #7779771 - 12/19/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

anyone believe in Pantheism?


--------------------
Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata

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Offlineandresq45
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MustardMan]
    #7780102 - 12/20/07 12:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm new here and I gotta say "shroomers" are surprisingly friendly and intelligent, these threads aren't polluted with flame wars. Anyway, I'm Atheist also and yes I know the experiences are all in your head just like twilight is. This doesn't mean it's not special though, your car is still your "baby" even though it's just molded steal and plastic. As for God, he's in the same slot as the lock ness monster...no evidence for it's existance and only mountains of evidence against it. I don't understand why scientists are treated as misguided or arrogant. Science has answered so many questions that were once thought to be unanswerable. Isn't it funny that science has NEVER found something that was supernatural to be true? Many here may dissagree but archology has already disproved all religeons. Evolution is an undeniable fact, there may be things that are still not understood (1st cell) but enough is known to call it case closed. The big bang is hard for many people to beleive cuz of it's complex physics but come on we even have a picture of the frickin' thing in the microwave background radiation. In my personal experience I find shrooms are fun. They make me laugh, they make see weird shapes n' creatures, and they make me understand my "fellow carbon". I think many people use the word spiritual when it's not needed, spiritual implies a ghost or invisible aura. Instead I feel extreme CONNECTION and EMPATHY for all life from worms, birds, trees, algea, dogs, ants, and people.


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OfflineNess1
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: andresq45]
    #7780161 - 12/20/07 01:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, science may in fact be able to explain everything. In fact, I have no doubt that eventually, science can, in fact, explain everything. I believe that the universe (or multiverse) does indeed operate within a specific set of rules. That doesn't mean, though, that there are not forces beyond our own comprehension and, perhaps, something after this life. We simply can not know. Just because the popular religions are wrong doesn't necessarily mean that when we die, we vanish. I really don't know and don't have an opinion either way, but I think it's silly to think that just because popular religion is wrong, that we can understand everything in the universe. The entire set of rules that run the omniverse are too complicated for the human brain to understand in its entirety so anything is possible.


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I know what they'll find, it's in their mind, it's what they want to see. Spare me from the light, here comes the night and here I'll stay, waiting for darkness.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Ness1]
    #7780272 - 12/20/07 02:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yes technically there could be unimaginable possibilities...but nature so far seems to follow a pattern from simple to complex, from quarks to life. So far there is no reason to postulate a creator (centient or not) for the universe that would have to be even more complexe than the multiverse it engineered. I think humans naturally overthink and hope in exess. Always trying to imagine more regardless of lack of evidence...this is where people pull spirits, souls, afterlife, creator, deities....ect


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: andresq45]
    #7780280 - 12/20/07 02:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, there is no evidence. Now. There's just an absolutely RIDICULOUS amount of stuff that we don't know. That's my point. There's so much we don't know, there's no telling how things really are.


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I know what they'll find, it's in their mind, it's what they want to see. Spare me from the light, here comes the night and here I'll stay, waiting for darkness.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Ness1]
    #7780304 - 12/20/07 02:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe "what we know" just pollutes the raw essence of pure human thought. When I take shrooms my senses seem to mean a whole lot less to me, and I tend to do a whole lot more introspection. Think think at the end of the day it isn't what the universe is that is going to define anything, its going to be "what does the universe and its infinity mean to us" and if doing mushrooms can help you understand yourself better and therefore the system applied to every piece of information you take in, all the better.


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Offlinewildchild68
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7780318 - 12/20/07 02:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
you'r talkin to me about god when my name says i do not believe in god :confused:

iv read countless threads where people say DMT or shrooms or LSD is spiritual and so on....

uhhhhh they are fucking DRUGS and it is all in your BRAINS,
those spirits you see when you hit the DMT pipe or eat shrooms ARE ALL IN YOUR HEAD




Yup, it is all in our brains. Surely being in our brains make it as valid as anything else we experience in our lifetime?

Considering, you know, we use our brain for everything in life, including our beliefs and ideas.



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Edited by wildchild68 (12/20/07 02:46 AM)


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: wildchild68]
    #7780366 - 12/20/07 03:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I know science has discovered paranormal things but they are kept secret from us due to the oppression going on. How the fuck would we be so controlled if we knew we were indestructable? We are energy, and as Einstein said we cannot be created nor destroyed,but obviously this energy is intelligent enough to individualize into seperate forms of conciousness to the point we are able to contemplate it right now, it's freaking amazing, and it's creativity.

challenge Science and ask ‘at what point in the evolution of the ‘material’ world’ is CONSCIOUSNESS first discernible? I repeat and mean what I say: Ask the scientist at what point in the evolution of the world is ‘consciousness’ first discernible. In the living cell? If in the living cell, ask whether if it was discernible in the living molecules which combined to make a cell and encase itself in such an intelligently designed membrane, permitting the intake of selected food and excretion of toxic waste? How does it recognise toxic waste? And if it should be conceded that consciousness might be present in living molecules, should you not ask whether the chemical properties which became a living molecule might not themselves have possessed ‘consciousness’ which eventually impelled and propelled them into the life-giving combination to make a molecule? And having gone back thus far into the origins of existence, - the chemical properties - you must still question why ‘consciousness’ should only become a viable presence within the chemicals - why not within the elements in which individuality first took shape, and if in the elements why should it be denied that ‘consciousness’ propels the electrical particles to form the elements? Is it rational to deny such a possibility? And having reached such a possibility, should you not go further and ask from whence comes electromagnetism? What is the ‘reality’ of electricity more than streaks of fierce light now described by science as photons and electrons? And what is the ‘reality’ of magnetism more than two-fold energies of ‘bonding and rejection’ - energy impulses which have brought stability and order into chaos? Ask science: “From whence comes electromagnetism which is responsible for the most basic steps in the creation of an ordered and orderly universe of an umimaginable complexity and diversity?” There are many who have experienced a little ‘burst of insight’, have briefly felt a touch of ‘Divine Consciousness’ and then, hardly daring to continue to believe in such a transcendant moment of awareness, have begun to question, doubt and finally dispel the little inflow of ‘Divine Consciousness’. Beware you do not do this. Disbelief will set you back, enmesh you in the material plane of existence more than you will ever know. Whatever you are given and able to receive - hold fast to it and do not doubt. Doubt destroys steady progress because it creates its own ‘consciousness forms’ which will suppress and even eradicate the insight you had gained previously. Therefore, your choice of thoughts, - belief or disbelief, doubt or faith, construct or destroy your progress in your search for TRUTH. Any denial erases from your consciousness the progress which has been previously made.

It's just like when I am tripping i can let myself go long enough to observe the beautiful geometric patterns that is life, but as my vibration slowly lowers my conditioned brain starts questioning the authenticity of these things and I lose my ability to see them.

I know the research done on blind near death experiences is pretty 'paranormal' check out some of those stories. near deat experience research foundation, nderf.org


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The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.


Edited by symbiotic (12/20/07 03:35 AM)


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
    #7780440 - 12/20/07 04:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I love science, I love reality.

but I would agree with the folks here who have said atheism requires a leap of faith.

we're all presented with a mystery with no answer.
both religion and atheism claim to know an answer.

religion says there is god (or something specific)
atheism says there is no god

those are both answers to a question that has no answer IMO.

is there a god? what happens when we die?

no one knows

acid and shrooms in my late teens/early twenties helped me come to this conclusion. I've never had trouble justifying my views (as I did when I was christian or atheist) since I figured this out.


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Veter]
    #7780461 - 12/20/07 05:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I have had the opposite experience and nearly all religious people I meet find atheists appalling. These people are everywhere, and for a little bit of proof, just look at how Mike Huckabee has become the front runner of the GOP.





Can you elaborate about Mike Huckabee? I went on the wikipedia page, but I couldn't really find anything other than that he's nice to illegal immigrants, which I think is just fine.

Quote:


For the last part of your statement: What I find stupid is not religiosity, but the way that many don't understand their own beliefs, just blindly following what they've been told since birth





I absolutely agree. I find it really sad when people blindly accept either religion or atheism with no consideration whatsoever, particularly when they barely understand the concepts they have so much faith in.

I think a major problem is that a judgmental, all-powerful God has become so intertwined with the idea of spirituality, and therefore the many people who won't accept such an idea are totally put off a spiritual path despite the existence of innumerable other spiritual ideas and lifestyles.

In my opinion, spirituality means ascension through the levels of one's own consciousness, overcoming of the ego, the realisation of the absolute oneness of everything, and the ability to tune in to energies on a level beyond every day filtered-down perceptions. My personal beliefs are hard to explain. If asked if I believe in God, I guess I'd say yes, but my idea of God is an all-pervasive force of pure positive energy that can be experienced when a certain mental state is reached. It's as much a state of mind as anything external, but that doesn't reduce its significance for me. What I experienced isn't a substantial thing, but a point of pure awareness, or cosmic consciousness, and I think if people focused more towards spiritual states of being and less towards external deities, we might have a happier world.

That said, many religions, such as Hinduism, consider identity with, and awareness of an all-pervasive force or being as important and do not simply worship an unseen, judgmental being. I personally lean more towards Buddhism, but I think certain gods exist as what Aldous Huxley called creatures "at the antipodes of the mind".

Everyone should make their own decisions, really. I know plenty of atheists who lead a genuinely spiritual lifestyle, and simply believe in the raw beauty of the universe without the need for any deities or supernatural beings. This type of philosophy is more spiritual than a belief in a God one has never properly thought about, let alone seen or experienced. Religion, like just about anything else, can be a genuine and beautiful thing, or just another way to express ignorance and fear, depending on the people involved. It's the refusal to accept alternatives to one's own beliefs that I find sad, whether it be demonstrated on the part of atheists, believers or anyone in between.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7780480 - 12/20/07 05:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Mushrooms made be believe that I may be eaten by a grue....

For those of you that played a certain text based adventure game :cool:

I had one serious post now I am in a childish mood.  Oh well you win some and loose some.  Great discussion too!


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Frosty_Storm]
    #7780488 - 12/20/07 05:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The truth is god has the worst case of split personality there is and we are all parts of it.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
    #7780538 - 12/20/07 06:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

symbiotic said:
The truth is god has the worst case of split personality there is and we are all parts of it.




but how do you know this is true?

maybe there are two gods
or infinite gods
or none at all


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
    #7780685 - 12/20/07 07:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

symbiotic said:
The truth is




Stop right there.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7780979 - 12/20/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Physical world doesn't exist, it's a mental and emotional plane we project ourselves with thoughts onto. Life's a dream, when you die that's when you wake up. Wild is it not?


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Frosty_Storm]
    #7781257 - 12/20/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Frosty_Storm said:
Mushrooms made be believe that I may be eaten by a grue....

For those of you that played a certain text based adventure game :cool:

I had one serious post now I am in a childish mood.  Oh well you win some and loose some.  Great discussion too!




So, basically, mushrooms made you afraid of the dark? I'm sorry. :lol:


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
    #7781444 - 12/20/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This has been a good thread to read.

Can we really continue with this discussion without first agreeing on a definition or two? What exactly is atheism? Wiktionary:

1. Absence of belief in the existence of God or gods.
2. Disbelief in the existence of God or gods.

Ok, what is God, or gods?

1. The single god of various monotheistic religions.
2. The single male god of various duotheistic religions.
3. An impersonal and universal spiritual presence or force.
4. An omnipotent being, creator of the universe (as in deism).

Well, 1 and 2 get us no closer to the true definition of god, but I'm sure we can all agree atheism includes disbelief in them. Numbers 3 and 4 are a little bit trickier.

Does atheism include disbelief in an impersonal and universal spiritual presence or force? What if we had a better word for spiritual?

I'm just saying that it all comes down to semantics. Atheism is just another blinding force of the real world. Like religion, or money, or laundry, or having to pee.

Atheism and religion are just more dangerous because they masquerade as potential contexts, potential viewpoints from which to percieve the world. They are useful as mental constructs, the validity of whose information must always be in check. They are not useful, and can even be dangerous when looked at as fully trustworthy and mutually exclusive ways to examine what you percieve.

Shouldn't someone truly interested in making sense of the world equip both intuitive spirituality and logical rationality in their arsenal of tools of understanding, and not merely consider one in great favor of the other?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #7781579 - 12/20/07 01:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think the important point is how you construct atheism. If atheism is a non-belief in a white beared guy who runs the whole universe than half the world is atheist. If it means non-belief in a creator being then Buddha was probobly an atheist too.

However, what atheism means for alot of people is materialism. Not like commercialism, but that everything is the product of the physical world, of strictly scientificaly prescribed behaviors of dead and inanimate objects. What is implicit in this view is that there is nothing truly mysterious or sacred.

If consciousness is truly profound or sacred, or even if a tree is sacred, that thing may be God. What we mean is that there is a deep, even infinately deep, and meaningful presence to things. To me that is God, though it is not one single form, but divided into infinite perspectives in order to know the infinite aspects of itself. You can find it most strongly in your own mind, a white light the Hindus call the Atman or personal manifestation of the soul and it is one with Brahman the great soul behind everything. A materialist would say this is abnormal neuron firing, or delusion because as we can see everything is so obviously Newtonian.

I don't claim to be atheist, but by some definitions an atheist could claim these beliefs as well as long as they don't involve Jesus or Mohammed. To me the label is mostly meaningless.


--------------------
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2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: McLovin727]
    #7781597 - 12/20/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm an atheist. I didn't get into drugs for the spiritual aspect of them, although I'll admit the experiences are philosophical and mind blowing. I use psychedelics for self-exploration and because I'm fascinated by what the brain is capable of. The fact that these chemicals induce such experiences is amazing in itself.

Actually, I never really saw psychedelic-drug use as being primarily centered around the spiritual experiences the drugs might induce. My religious Muslim friend takes them for that reason, but I think curiosity, personal development or "getting fucked up" are the more common reasons people give for using these drugs.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Quake3]
    #7783730 - 12/20/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't believe in "God," but mushroom connects you to the earth, humanity, and truth in a way that makes you stop caring what the hell people name their belief. It doesn't have to have a name...it was a feeling in the first place. Mushrooms intensify the feeling and cast words out the window. Religion is made of words.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
    #7784056 - 12/20/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

At it's core, atheism looks at the world from a scientific point of view, and science is about exploration

Why then, would an atheist be disinclined to explore the possibilities of his or her own consciousness?


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Elfer]
    #7784181 - 12/21/07 12:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Science is the record of dead religions.


When people ask me if I believe in god, I tell them "yes, but I don't believe in religion." I believe there is a possibility an underlying force that governs all things in this universe. Whether it be Time or ET, I don't know, but I don't disregard the idea of a god.


People seem to be religious, because they are afraid of the fact when they die, that's it. They want to believe they will go to heaven, and see their great grandmother Mona, or their uncle Bundy. Hey that's great, if they need to live life hoping something better is coming along after they die, then hell do it.



That isn't me though. I don't need to live my life "righteously" and hope to be accepted into the gates of heaven.


I can look at my life NOW and see the beauty of only getting one chance. Shrooms have made me realize that it is more beautiful to only live once, then to live forever, whether it be in heaven or on earth. A simple glance around your room will show you the power of man, the beauty of man, and the fact that man has been the only influence since our beginning.

Shrooms have showed me that death isn't a bad thing, it is just something that happens.

Today I was thinking about all the babies and all the sick children that die before they are even 5 years old. Many people look at those kind of incidents as horrible events. Call me sick, but I don't. It isn't sick or sad because they had a chance to experience, whether it be happiness, sadness, or sickness, they got to experience life as a intelligent human being for 1 second. The chance to live is one of the most beautiful things in this universe, and the chance to live as an intelligent logical being, well that's the icing on the cake.

To truly respect anything, you have to understand and respect LIFE for what it is.


Which brings me to my next point.


I think life, ALL life is equal. That is where religion fails in my eyes. Religion was made by man on earth, for man on earth. When you think of an ant dying, and you think of a human dying, the ant's death is obviously more insignificant right? Wrong. The difference between an ant and a human is quite obvious, but at the same time we are both living, experiencing creatures that want the best for ourselves and our kind. So why is it that the bible doesn't talk about all animals and all life going to heaven or hell? Why is it that life of a more "evolved" more "intelligent" animal is more significant than that of other life.



We will never know if there is or isn't a god, but what we do know is that we have an attitude, and that it effects everything in our world.



The thing about choosing a belief is you are subconsciously choosing a life style and attitude. If you are taking shrooms as an atheist you will experience the same thing as a devout Christian, it just simply comes back to yourself as an individual.


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OfflineCMACD
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: substraight]
    #7784218 - 12/21/07 01:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

substraight said:
Quote:

symbiotic said:
The truth is god has the worst case of split personality there is and we are all parts of it.




but how do you know this is true?

maybe there are two gods
or infinite gods
or none at all



He knows, cause that's what came into his head on the mushrooms, LoL. and he listened to Tool - Reflection.

Sorry.


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OfflineFungalFeind
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: benrules92]
    #7786184 - 12/21/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Although being an atheist you would look at it for the easy way to explain it as chemical in-balances in the brain causing hallucinations. Shrooms or the active ingredient has not until recently come under the Scientific micro scope in the last 40 years and they still cannot not find the precise reason or area in the brain that shrooms takes its effect on. So explaining it by the preconceived conception for reasons i don't want to go into that the scientists don't even know in depth or even vaguely the entire effect shrooms have on your body even chemically so why try and explain it with that outlook just naivety that science can explain everything. The proof that there is no proof is out there. A smart person said "The only truth is infinite love, Everything else is an illusion."

Read The link

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html


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OfflineFungalFeind
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: azuresense]
    #7786201 - 12/21/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

azuresense said:
I don't believe in "God," but mushroom connects you to the earth, humanity, and truth in a way that makes you stop caring what the hell people name their belief. It doesn't have to have a name...it was a feeling in the first place. Mushrooms intensify the feeling and cast words out the window. Religion is made of words.



Preach brother, Amen! Ironical posts are the best!


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: FungalFeind]
    #7786714 - 12/21/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The argument that atheism requires faith is, no disrespect intended, complete crap. Atheism does not require faith by definition. I don't want to accept god on a (completely) blind leap of faith. Therefore my only rational option is not to believe in him unless he can be logically explained to me to exist. No faith involved. It's not a belief, its a lack of a belief. Many of you might say: "God is inexpressible, we could never explain him by definition." To that I would reply: "Exactly why I do not believe he exists."


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: g00ru]
    #7787904 - 12/22/07 02:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The argument that atheism requires faith is, no disrespect intended, complete crap. Atheism does not require faith by definition. I don't want to accept god on a (completely) blind leap of faith. Therefore my only rational option is not to believe in him unless he can be logically explained to me to exist. No faith involved. It's not a belief, its a lack of a belief. Many of you might say: "God is inexpressible, we could never explain him by definition." To that I would reply: "Exactly why I do not believe he exists."




He?


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OfflineKanker
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7788152 - 12/22/07 07:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

atheism is not the absence of spirituality.


--------------------
I'm ahead, I'm advanced
I am the first mammal to make plans, yeah
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher
2010, watch it go to fire.
It's evolution baby.
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OfflineBoots
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7788433 - 12/22/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not religious, atheist, or particularly spiritual. I think that whether there is a 'god' or not, I just don't care. Having said that, I take 'shrooms as a way to explore myself, my surroundings, quality art, and the concept of 'thought' in general. Whether or not it's the result of a chemical imbalance doesn't change the incredible beauty and depth of a 'shroom trip.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: g00ru]
    #7789048 - 12/22/07 01:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
The argument that atheism requires faith is, no disrespect intended, complete crap. Atheism does not require faith by definition. I don't want to accept god on a (completely) blind leap of faith. Therefore my only rational option is not to believe in him unless he can be logically explained to me to exist. No faith involved. It's not a belief, its a lack of a belief. Many of you might say: "God is inexpressible, we could never explain him by definition." To that I would reply: "Exactly why I do not believe he exists."




Hold on though, you have to have faith the material world even exists, and also faith in that your own perception is correct enough to make that judgement call. These are leaps that I think we ALL make, but the idea that there is a completely indisputible position is faulty. You make the leap of faith that if you don't understand it or don't appear to see it it must not exist. For that you would have to be omnicient. Fifty years ago a person could have neither seen nor understood dark matter, but it does exist.

Now, I don't really subscribe to the semetic idea of God either, but atheism like any belief system requires faith.

I don't BELIEVE in God, but I also know that it is real. Something that is inexpressible is cannot be known by people who dwell in belief because conceptual thinking is not direct experience. As long as you are only thinking and BELIEVING in thought as the only mode of experience you will never know what is true.

Describing the ineffable in thought and langauge is like representing colors with smells. Just because you can't do it very well doesn't mean the thing you intend to describe does not exist.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #7789293 - 12/22/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm god.


--------------------
Everybody's a ninja...


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #7790016 - 12/22/07 05:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

fuck atheism and fuck religion. ill have to agree that these labels dont interest me. i dont have a reason to believe in god so i dont. i dont need that crutch... some do... and i dont call myself an atheist because i dont care enough about the subject to do so. but i love mushrooms and they allow me to see my inner being and connect with myself and others in ways i couldnt do otherwise. no spirituality involved


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: ashfiken]
    #7790150 - 12/22/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

you know that by saying god is fake you are an ATHEIST


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7791562 - 12/23/07 04:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

no people choose to call themselves atheists. you can consider myself this but i refuse to put a label on my beliefs because they cant contain my thoughts or beliefs in the long run. most people do call me atheist but i just dont see the point in calling myself anything because like i said above it just seems binding and boring to do so.


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: ashfiken]
    #7791922 - 12/23/07 10:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

dumbest shit i have ever read

if you say that god IS NOT REAL then you are an atheist (whether you like it or not)

its like saying you arent human because its a label (EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ALL HUMAN)

just because you are atheist doesnt mean other shit is included (whatever you believe)
it just means that you think god is fake


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7791923 - 12/23/07 10:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

for example, many buddhists are atheist because they dont believe in god(s)


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OfflineProskier
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7791972 - 12/23/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
for example, many buddhists are atheist because they dont believe in god(s)




and if you talked to a buddhist they wouldnt want to be called an atheist. they would want to be called buddhist. This guy just sounds like he doesnt like the idea of being called an atheist for whatever reason. probly for the stereo types he's heard/knows that follow the title.

im a gentile because im not jewish but i prefer to be called/"labeled" a christian.


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Proskier]
    #7791978 - 12/23/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

they are still atheists


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #7792564 - 12/23/07 01:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i dont care enough for it to matter im sorry the dumbest shit youve ever read is how i feel. like i also said everyone considers me an atheist but i just prefer not to label myself. do you really have that big of a problem with that? im not gonna put myself into any type of barrier that says what i do or do not believe period.


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: ashfiken]
    #7792583 - 12/23/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

and in what way is it like saying im not human (not even a label). its not remotely similar. it is scientific fact that we are human. there is nothing to state that i HAVE to fit into the category because of me inevitably not giving a fuck about the subject of god is real or god isnt because to me it has been irrelevant for the majority of my life. with all this said even though i dont consider myself one for whatever reasons i find i get along best with atheists because of their like minded beliefs. i dont have a problem with that stereotype like the other dude said the whole point im trying to make is that it doesnt really matter to me


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


Edited by ashfiken (12/23/07 01:35 PM)


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #7793080 - 12/23/07 04:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Hold on though, you have to have faith the material world even exists, and also faith in that your own perception is correct enough to make that judgement call. These are leaps that I think we ALL make, but the idea that there is a completely indisputible position is faulty. You make the leap of faith that if you don't understand it or don't appear to see it it must not exist. For that you would have to be omnicient. Fifty years ago a person could have neither seen nor understood dark matter, but it does exist.

Now, I don't really subscribe to the semetic idea of God either, but atheism like any belief system requires faith.

I don't BELIEVE in God, but I also know that it is real. Something that is inexpressible is cannot be known by people who dwell in belief because conceptual thinking is not direct experience. As long as you are only thinking and BELIEVING in thought as the only mode of experience you will never know what is true.

Describing the ineffable in thought and langauge is like representing colors with smells. Just because you can't do it very well doesn't mean the thing you intend to describe does not exist.




I think you're misunderstanding Atheism. Atheism is not a "belief" in anything. It requires no more faith to not believe in god than it does to not believe in the tooth fairy or a pink unicorn in the corner of my room.
Atheism is simply the reliance on science as the definer of reality. If science were to verify the existence of god, atheists would "believe" in god. Science is the best method we have found to obtain 'proof' in reality. Consistency is the closest thing you will ever get to proof, and ignoring that because it isn't perfect only leads to pointless over-thought philosophies.
To say that we are making leaps of faith is like saying it takes a leap of faith to believe that you will die if you stop drinking or eating (or any other mundane assumption you make every day).

A system of finding consistencies and 'proofs' in our world is required to base any meaningful definition of reality.


--------------------
Let the Demons have their place, if so, it's angels you'll create.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Veter]
    #7793130 - 12/23/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with you. What you are describing is a pragmatic/correspondance theory of reality. I just think guruu's reasoning was kind of faulty. The atheism he described was unbelief in anything you have not experienced or do not understand which also makes some big presumptions. I don't think it is very open minded nor wise to discount possibilities so easily based on such a limited perspective.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7793482 - 12/23/07 06:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I consider myself an atheist in that I don't believe anyone knows god outside themselves. I think that being alive makes you a god. I like taking shrooms because it helps me remember this and makes me want to live up to what I am. It also makes me appreciate other people for being alive and choosing to be that way, you know? (organized) Religion kinda spits in the face of all that. Although it may be said that my belief is my religion.. Call it what you will, I just don't consider myself to be a theist.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7793583 - 12/23/07 07:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EllisDSox said:
He?




Gotta call him something. :lol:


--------------------
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Atheist]
    #10858603 - 08/14/09 11:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
dumbest shit i have ever read

if you say that god IS NOT REAL then you are an atheist (whether you like it or not)

its like saying you arent human because its a label (EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ALL HUMAN)

just because you are atheist doesnt mean other shit is included (whatever you believe)
it just means that you think god is fake




No it sounds more like agnosticism


--------------------
Insanity in individuals is something rare -- but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. -Nietzche

What luck for the rulers that men do not think. -Adolf Hitler


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #10858628 - 08/14/09 11:23 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

People have just manufactured this dogmatic idea that believing in a god, or an anthropomorphic deity or practicing religion makes you "spiritual." All "god" is, is a word created by man for something they could not readily understand at that point in time.

We are our own gods. That's what mushrooms, other psychedelics/entheogens, and logical thought helped me realize.


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OfflineTheLizardKing23
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #10917284 - 08/23/09 01:21 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I did not believe in god or religion before taking mushrooms or LSD and I do not believe in god or religion after taking them. I feel very connected to the world when I trip. Even when I am not tripping, I now feel more connected after having experiences on the drugs.

I don't see the need for god or religion. The world is amazing, I don't know how it got here and I never will. It does not concern me since I will never know.


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OfflineAcid_Raindrops
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #10917791 - 08/23/09 03:11 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I consider myself atheist but after psychedelic use and a lot of reading I feel there is something spiritual beyond our comprehension, I do to an extent believe in spirits. I myself have thought to had paranormal encounters, but on the other hand the mind can also play incredible tricks on yourself. But I hate to label myself, be a part of some cult... Just the thought of the possibility of some type of afterlife (Not talking about GOD or anything), our true purpose here, the 3rd eye..etc. all entertains me at the moment, and I'm going to see what this fascination leads me from here.


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Acid_Raindrops]
    #10918233 - 08/23/09 06:37 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

This is a thread from 07.

But, lol, to the OP, yeah concensus is that atheists like to eat shrooms too.:grin:


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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Shad0w]
    #10918276 - 08/23/09 07:02 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, and that animated signature makes even a smal block of text hard to read when I'm drunk. 

Spaces.

They're nice.


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OfflineDr.Myco87
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Ness1]
    #10918448 - 08/23/09 08:22 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ness1 said:
LSD is slowly softening my atheism into a form of agnosticism/spiritualism. We'll see where it goes.




I've been on this path for awhile now, still don't know where it's going, all I know is that I'm a happier person altogether.


--------------------
"I don’t do drugs. I am drugs."                -Salvador Dali

"I’ve never had a problem with drugs. I’ve had problems with the police."                                          -Keith Richards

"Reality is a crutch for people who can’t cope with drugs."                                          -Lily Tomlin



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Offlinesauroman1
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Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: benrules92]
    #22160044 - 08/29/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We may exist in holographic universe, multiverse. Being Agnostic Atheist didn't made anatheist yet, but convinced that this world isn't only and showed how delusional is human beliefs.
I hope to find meaning of life, suffering happening to millions of sentient beings, what is consciousness and my purpose by taking psychedelics.
Amazing and complex visuals, fractals and talking to entities really can convince that this world isn't only and it would hard to believe that this is byproduct of brain. Terence Mckenna once said that DMT changed 100% of "reality" into unknown hyperspace. In fact he later states that jeweled self-transforming basketball given to him by a machine elf was so weird that if he could bring it back here it would change whole history of humankind. Watch excerpt from 2:46.

Terence Mckenna about DMT

Could brain alone produce these experiences and are those things?


--------------------
"You come from realms of unimaginable power and light, and you will return to those realms.” ― Terence McKenna


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