|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
symbiotic
insighted


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 105
Loc: ok,nm,co,ca,or
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: wildchild68]
#7780366 - 12/20/07 03:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I know science has discovered paranormal things but they are kept secret from us due to the oppression going on. How the fuck would we be so controlled if we knew we were indestructable? We are energy, and as Einstein said we cannot be created nor destroyed,but obviously this energy is intelligent enough to individualize into seperate forms of conciousness to the point we are able to contemplate it right now, it's freaking amazing, and it's creativity.
challenge Science and ask ‘at what point in the evolution of the ‘material’ world’ is CONSCIOUSNESS first discernible? I repeat and mean what I say: Ask the scientist at what point in the evolution of the world is ‘consciousness’ first discernible. In the living cell? If in the living cell, ask whether if it was discernible in the living molecules which combined to make a cell and encase itself in such an intelligently designed membrane, permitting the intake of selected food and excretion of toxic waste? How does it recognise toxic waste? And if it should be conceded that consciousness might be present in living molecules, should you not ask whether the chemical properties which became a living molecule might not themselves have possessed ‘consciousness’ which eventually impelled and propelled them into the life-giving combination to make a molecule? And having gone back thus far into the origins of existence, - the chemical properties - you must still question why ‘consciousness’ should only become a viable presence within the chemicals - why not within the elements in which individuality first took shape, and if in the elements why should it be denied that ‘consciousness’ propels the electrical particles to form the elements? Is it rational to deny such a possibility? And having reached such a possibility, should you not go further and ask from whence comes electromagnetism? What is the ‘reality’ of electricity more than streaks of fierce light now described by science as photons and electrons? And what is the ‘reality’ of magnetism more than two-fold energies of ‘bonding and rejection’ - energy impulses which have brought stability and order into chaos? Ask science: “From whence comes electromagnetism which is responsible for the most basic steps in the creation of an ordered and orderly universe of an umimaginable complexity and diversity?” There are many who have experienced a little ‘burst of insight’, have briefly felt a touch of ‘Divine Consciousness’ and then, hardly daring to continue to believe in such a transcendant moment of awareness, have begun to question, doubt and finally dispel the little inflow of ‘Divine Consciousness’. Beware you do not do this. Disbelief will set you back, enmesh you in the material plane of existence more than you will ever know. Whatever you are given and able to receive - hold fast to it and do not doubt. Doubt destroys steady progress because it creates its own ‘consciousness forms’ which will suppress and even eradicate the insight you had gained previously. Therefore, your choice of thoughts, - belief or disbelief, doubt or faith, construct or destroy your progress in your search for TRUTH. Any denial erases from your consciousness the progress which has been previously made.
It's just like when I am tripping i can let myself go long enough to observe the beautiful geometric patterns that is life, but as my vibration slowly lowers my conditioned brain starts questioning the authenticity of these things and I lose my ability to see them.
I know the research done on blind near death experiences is pretty 'paranormal' check out some of those stories. near deat experience research foundation, nderf.org
-------------------- The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.
Edited by symbiotic (12/20/07 03:35 AM)
|
substraight
fella


Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 101
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
#7780440 - 12/20/07 04:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I love science, I love reality.
but I would agree with the folks here who have said atheism requires a leap of faith.
we're all presented with a mystery with no answer. both religion and atheism claim to know an answer.
religion says there is god (or something specific) atheism says there is no god
those are both answers to a question that has no answer IMO.
is there a god? what happens when we die?
no one knows
acid and shrooms in my late teens/early twenties helped me come to this conclusion. I've never had trouble justifying my views (as I did when I was christian or atheist) since I figured this out.
|
EllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Veter]
#7780461 - 12/20/07 05:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I have had the opposite experience and nearly all religious people I meet find atheists appalling. These people are everywhere, and for a little bit of proof, just look at how Mike Huckabee has become the front runner of the GOP.
Can you elaborate about Mike Huckabee? I went on the wikipedia page, but I couldn't really find anything other than that he's nice to illegal immigrants, which I think is just fine.
Quote:
For the last part of your statement: What I find stupid is not religiosity, but the way that many don't understand their own beliefs, just blindly following what they've been told since birth
I absolutely agree. I find it really sad when people blindly accept either religion or atheism with no consideration whatsoever, particularly when they barely understand the concepts they have so much faith in.
I think a major problem is that a judgmental, all-powerful God has become so intertwined with the idea of spirituality, and therefore the many people who won't accept such an idea are totally put off a spiritual path despite the existence of innumerable other spiritual ideas and lifestyles.
In my opinion, spirituality means ascension through the levels of one's own consciousness, overcoming of the ego, the realisation of the absolute oneness of everything, and the ability to tune in to energies on a level beyond every day filtered-down perceptions. My personal beliefs are hard to explain. If asked if I believe in God, I guess I'd say yes, but my idea of God is an all-pervasive force of pure positive energy that can be experienced when a certain mental state is reached. It's as much a state of mind as anything external, but that doesn't reduce its significance for me. What I experienced isn't a substantial thing, but a point of pure awareness, or cosmic consciousness, and I think if people focused more towards spiritual states of being and less towards external deities, we might have a happier world.
That said, many religions, such as Hinduism, consider identity with, and awareness of an all-pervasive force or being as important and do not simply worship an unseen, judgmental being. I personally lean more towards Buddhism, but I think certain gods exist as what Aldous Huxley called creatures "at the antipodes of the mind".
Everyone should make their own decisions, really. I know plenty of atheists who lead a genuinely spiritual lifestyle, and simply believe in the raw beauty of the universe without the need for any deities or supernatural beings. This type of philosophy is more spiritual than a belief in a God one has never properly thought about, let alone seen or experienced. Religion, like just about anything else, can be a genuine and beautiful thing, or just another way to express ignorance and fear, depending on the people involved. It's the refusal to accept alternatives to one's own beliefs that I find sad, whether it be demonstrated on the part of atheists, believers or anyone in between.
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
|
Frosty_Storm
Wandered off inwonderland



Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 353
Loc: Pennsylvania
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: EllisDSox]
#7780480 - 12/20/07 05:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Mushrooms made be believe that I may be eaten by a grue....
For those of you that played a certain text based adventure game 
I had one serious post now I am in a childish mood. Oh well you win some and loose some. Great discussion too!
-------------------- Shrowded in an angelic white veil of darkness ~Frosty Storm~
|
symbiotic
insighted


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 105
Loc: ok,nm,co,ca,or
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Frosty_Storm]
#7780488 - 12/20/07 05:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The truth is god has the worst case of split personality there is and we are all parts of it.
-------------------- The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.
|
substraight
fella


Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 101
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
#7780538 - 12/20/07 06:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
symbiotic said: The truth is god has the worst case of split personality there is and we are all parts of it.
but how do you know this is true?
maybe there are two gods or infinite gods or none at all
|
OneMoreRobot3021



Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
#7780685 - 12/20/07 07:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
symbiotic said: The truth is
Stop right there.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
|
symbiotic
insighted


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 105
Loc: ok,nm,co,ca,or
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
|
|
Physical world doesn't exist, it's a mental and emotional plane we project ourselves with thoughts onto. Life's a dream, when you die that's when you wake up. Wild is it not?
-------------------- The greatest journey we can make is about 12 inches, from our heads to our hearts.
|
Ness1
Spreading myinvisible wings


Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 621
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Frosty_Storm]
#7781257 - 12/20/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Frosty_Storm said: Mushrooms made be believe that I may be eaten by a grue....
For those of you that played a certain text based adventure game 
I had one serious post now I am in a childish mood. Oh well you win some and loose some. Great discussion too!
So, basically, mushrooms made you afraid of the dark? I'm sorry.
-------------------- I know what they'll find, it's in their mind, it's what they want to see. Spare me from the light, here comes the night and here I'll stay, waiting for darkness.
|
ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: MeatyVitamin]
#7781444 - 12/20/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
This has been a good thread to read.
Can we really continue with this discussion without first agreeing on a definition or two? What exactly is atheism? Wiktionary:
1. Absence of belief in the existence of God or gods. 2. Disbelief in the existence of God or gods.
Ok, what is God, or gods?
1. The single god of various monotheistic religions. 2. The single male god of various duotheistic religions. 3. An impersonal and universal spiritual presence or force. 4. An omnipotent being, creator of the universe (as in deism).
Well, 1 and 2 get us no closer to the true definition of god, but I'm sure we can all agree atheism includes disbelief in them. Numbers 3 and 4 are a little bit trickier.
Does atheism include disbelief in an impersonal and universal spiritual presence or force? What if we had a better word for spiritual?
I'm just saying that it all comes down to semantics. Atheism is just another blinding force of the real world. Like religion, or money, or laundry, or having to pee.
Atheism and religion are just more dangerous because they masquerade as potential contexts, potential viewpoints from which to percieve the world. They are useful as mental constructs, the validity of whose information must always be in check. They are not useful, and can even be dangerous when looked at as fully trustworthy and mutually exclusive ways to examine what you percieve.
Shouldn't someone truly interested in making sense of the world equip both intuitive spirituality and logical rationality in their arsenal of tools of understanding, and not merely consider one in great favor of the other?
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
|
Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
|
|
I think the important point is how you construct atheism. If atheism is a non-belief in a white beared guy who runs the whole universe than half the world is atheist. If it means non-belief in a creator being then Buddha was probobly an atheist too.
However, what atheism means for alot of people is materialism. Not like commercialism, but that everything is the product of the physical world, of strictly scientificaly prescribed behaviors of dead and inanimate objects. What is implicit in this view is that there is nothing truly mysterious or sacred.
If consciousness is truly profound or sacred, or even if a tree is sacred, that thing may be God. What we mean is that there is a deep, even infinately deep, and meaningful presence to things. To me that is God, though it is not one single form, but divided into infinite perspectives in order to know the infinite aspects of itself. You can find it most strongly in your own mind, a white light the Hindus call the Atman or personal manifestation of the soul and it is one with Brahman the great soul behind everything. A materialist would say this is abnormal neuron firing, or delusion because as we can see everything is so obviously Newtonian.
I don't claim to be atheist, but by some definitions an atheist could claim these beliefs as well as long as they don't involve Jesus or Mohammed. To me the label is mostly meaningless.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
|
Quake3
Total Carbohydrate




Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 924
Loc: Relatively New York
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: McLovin727]
#7781597 - 12/20/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I'm an atheist. I didn't get into drugs for the spiritual aspect of them, although I'll admit the experiences are philosophical and mind blowing. I use psychedelics for self-exploration and because I'm fascinated by what the brain is capable of. The fact that these chemicals induce such experiences is amazing in itself.
Actually, I never really saw psychedelic-drug use as being primarily centered around the spiritual experiences the drugs might induce. My religious Muslim friend takes them for that reason, but I think curiosity, personal development or "getting fucked up" are the more common reasons people give for using these drugs.
|
azuresense
SpaceTumbler



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Sunshine State of Darknes...
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Quake3]
#7783730 - 12/20/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I don't believe in "God," but mushroom connects you to the earth, humanity, and truth in a way that makes you stop caring what the hell people name their belief. It doesn't have to have a name...it was a feeling in the first place. Mushrooms intensify the feeling and cast words out the window. Religion is made of words.
-------------------- "Some men change their party for the sake of their principles; others their principles for the sake of their party.” ~Winston Churchill
|
Elfer
Stranger
Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 20
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: symbiotic]
#7784056 - 12/20/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
At it's core, atheism looks at the world from a scientific point of view, and science is about exploration
Why then, would an atheist be disinclined to explore the possibilities of his or her own consciousness?
|
MindGorilla
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 285
Loc: Detroit
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: Elfer]
#7784181 - 12/21/07 12:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Science is the record of dead religions.
When people ask me if I believe in god, I tell them "yes, but I don't believe in religion." I believe there is a possibility an underlying force that governs all things in this universe. Whether it be Time or ET, I don't know, but I don't disregard the idea of a god.
People seem to be religious, because they are afraid of the fact when they die, that's it. They want to believe they will go to heaven, and see their great grandmother Mona, or their uncle Bundy. Hey that's great, if they need to live life hoping something better is coming along after they die, then hell do it.
That isn't me though. I don't need to live my life "righteously" and hope to be accepted into the gates of heaven.
I can look at my life NOW and see the beauty of only getting one chance. Shrooms have made me realize that it is more beautiful to only live once, then to live forever, whether it be in heaven or on earth. A simple glance around your room will show you the power of man, the beauty of man, and the fact that man has been the only influence since our beginning.
Shrooms have showed me that death isn't a bad thing, it is just something that happens.
Today I was thinking about all the babies and all the sick children that die before they are even 5 years old. Many people look at those kind of incidents as horrible events. Call me sick, but I don't. It isn't sick or sad because they had a chance to experience, whether it be happiness, sadness, or sickness, they got to experience life as a intelligent human being for 1 second. The chance to live is one of the most beautiful things in this universe, and the chance to live as an intelligent logical being, well that's the icing on the cake.
To truly respect anything, you have to understand and respect LIFE for what it is.
Which brings me to my next point.
I think life, ALL life is equal. That is where religion fails in my eyes. Religion was made by man on earth, for man on earth. When you think of an ant dying, and you think of a human dying, the ant's death is obviously more insignificant right? Wrong. The difference between an ant and a human is quite obvious, but at the same time we are both living, experiencing creatures that want the best for ourselves and our kind. So why is it that the bible doesn't talk about all animals and all life going to heaven or hell? Why is it that life of a more "evolved" more "intelligent" animal is more significant than that of other life.
We will never know if there is or isn't a god, but what we do know is that we have an attitude, and that it effects everything in our world.
The thing about choosing a belief is you are subconsciously choosing a life style and attitude. If you are taking shrooms as an atheist you will experience the same thing as a devout Christian, it just simply comes back to yourself as an individual.
|
CMACD
The Sto)))ve


Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 813
Loc: too scared
Last seen: 9 months, 8 days
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: substraight]
#7784218 - 12/21/07 01:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
substraight said:
Quote:
symbiotic said: The truth is god has the worst case of split personality there is and we are all parts of it.
but how do you know this is true?
maybe there are two gods or infinite gods or none at all
He knows, cause that's what came into his head on the mushrooms, LoL. and he listened to Tool - Reflection.
Sorry.
|
FungalFeind
Stranger

Registered: 12/21/07
Posts: 3
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: benrules92]
#7786184 - 12/21/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Although being an atheist you would look at it for the easy way to explain it as chemical in-balances in the brain causing hallucinations. Shrooms or the active ingredient has not until recently come under the Scientific micro scope in the last 40 years and they still cannot not find the precise reason or area in the brain that shrooms takes its effect on. So explaining it by the preconceived conception for reasons i don't want to go into that the scientists don't even know in depth or even vaguely the entire effect shrooms have on your body even chemically so why try and explain it with that outlook just naivety that science can explain everything. The proof that there is no proof is out there. A smart person said "The only truth is infinite love, Everything else is an illusion."
Read The link
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
|
FungalFeind
Stranger

Registered: 12/21/07
Posts: 3
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: azuresense]
#7786201 - 12/21/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
azuresense said: I don't believe in "God," but mushroom connects you to the earth, humanity, and truth in a way that makes you stop caring what the hell people name their belief. It doesn't have to have a name...it was a feeling in the first place. Mushrooms intensify the feeling and cast words out the window. Religion is made of words.
Preach brother, Amen! Ironical posts are the best!
|
g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: FungalFeind]
#7786714 - 12/21/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The argument that atheism requires faith is, no disrespect intended, complete crap. Atheism does not require faith by definition. I don't want to accept god on a (completely) blind leap of faith. Therefore my only rational option is not to believe in him unless he can be logically explained to me to exist. No faith involved. It's not a belief, its a lack of a belief. Many of you might say: "God is inexpressible, we could never explain him by definition." To that I would reply: "Exactly why I do not believe he exists."
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
|
EllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
|
Re: Atheism and Shroom-taking [Re: g00ru]
#7787904 - 12/22/07 02:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The argument that atheism requires faith is, no disrespect intended, complete crap. Atheism does not require faith by definition. I don't want to accept god on a (completely) blind leap of faith. Therefore my only rational option is not to believe in him unless he can be logically explained to me to exist. No faith involved. It's not a belief, its a lack of a belief. Many of you might say: "God is inexpressible, we could never explain him by definition." To that I would reply: "Exactly why I do not believe he exists."
He?
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
|
|