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Offlinefake estate
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vegetarian?
    #7769185 - 12/17/07 01:46 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

all my life ive considered myself an animal person..i had a myriad of pets growing up and always enjoyed their company...long story short my life leads of to today--im home from college after a whole semester...see my old cat who i never had that good of a relationship with, he comes over casually and plops in my lap n starts purring..allowing me to pet him without a single snip at me, which never has happened before...

i had an enormous epiphany and realized how all animals have spirits that i can connect to, similarly some plants do too i believe, and because of this i shouldnt be eating them..on top of that i tripped on acid for the first time on the 14th...ate a lot of munchis and since then food has tasted extremely weird, but not in a good way, so i havent been eating a whole lot..i go smoke to get hungry and start semi tripping again and have this great epiphany...any onee else had anything like this happen to them? the only wway i could describe my feelings are as coinciding spiritual and sensory epiphanies


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7769208 - 12/17/07 01:49 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Revelations are subjective and based on your personal makeup and past experiences IMO.

Liking animals and not wanting to eat them seems pretty harmless...

as long as you don't try to make it into a religion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefake estate
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: Icelander]
    #7769292 - 12/17/07 02:09 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

dont worry ive long ago realized that working too hard to persuade someone is not incredibly worthwile


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eat more algae.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7769606 - 12/17/07 03:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fake estate said:
i had an enormous epiphany and realized how all animals have spirits that i can connect to, similarly some plants do too i believe, and because of this i shouldnt be eating them..



Wait, so you don't eat animals OR plants? I too have felt both plant and animal spirits before. I often try to do the Native American thing and pray to the animal spirit in gratitude for the chance to eat.


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Offlinefake estate
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7769666 - 12/17/07 03:32 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

fake estate said:
i had an enormous epiphany and realized how all animals have spirits that i can connect to, similarly some plants do too i believe, and because of this i shouldnt be eating them..



Wait, so you don't eat animals OR plants? I too have felt both plant and animal spirits before. I often try to do the Native American thing and pray to the animal spirit in gratitude for the chance to eat.




im attempting to abstain from eating animals..mainly because of my newfound philosophy of spiritual connection to all animals..then as an aside i tried to incorporate plant spirits into my argument, in hopes of convincing many readers here (who likely have connected plant/fungi) spirits) as to the likelihood of connections between species and validating my reasons to not eat them any more haha...ill still munch on salad, and eat some space brownies tho


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eat more algae.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7769685 - 12/17/07 03:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Eat what feels good.

To me, meat often feels good.

If you feel bad when you eat meat... don't eat it.

If eating plants makes you feel bad... don't eat them.

If starving to death starts to feel bad... eat something.

Thank your lucky stars you are in a position where you can moralize what you do and do not eat.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7769837 - 12/17/07 04:07 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

i had an enormous epiphany and realized how all animals have spirits that i can connect to




Not sure what you mean by 'having a spirit'. You can connect to bacteria?

Vegetarians still kill and eat millions of microscopic animals. So is it merely unethical to eat large, furry and feathered animals?


I gave up eating blondes years ago.


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Offlinefake estate
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7770565 - 12/17/07 07:21 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

i had an enormous epiphany and realized how all animals have spirits that i can connect to




Not sure what you mean by 'having a spirit'. You can connect to bacteria?

Vegetarians still kill and eat millions of microscopic animals. So is it merely unethical to eat large, furry and feathered animals?


I gave up eating blondes years ago.




i dont often live my life through the view of a microscope therefore i cant pet my little single celled friends..and no one is intentionally harvesting bacteria for my consumption-- aside from a few cheeses which i find disgusting

although i did eat some amazing pizza tonight and i pray for those millions of brave yeast souls that lost their lives for my sustenance and enjoyment


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eat more algae.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7770580 - 12/17/07 07:27 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I love animals as well. I can connect to them spiritually by consuming their flesh.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinepooppoop
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7770670 - 12/17/07 07:50 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I just had a BIG MAC.

Thats not real meat is it?


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“Without disturbing anyone, I will choose My moment.”
I have seen the light.

D.A.R.E


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Offlinefake estate
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: pooppoop]
    #7770709 - 12/17/07 07:58 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

its just extremely processed and often filled with fecal coliform, ecoli viruses and other nasty pathogens..but considerring the high level of care common among all fast food workers you should not worry at all about the little additions in your burgers as they are usually, well..almost always prepared properly..

i would also recommend that if you wish to keep up your ground beef filled diet you might want to shy away from any real research into the cattle or fast food industries


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eat more algae.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: pooppoop]
    #7770725 - 12/17/07 08:01 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Of course not. Your still a virgin.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinekody260z
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7775299 - 12/18/07 10:05 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

For me, I choose to refrain from eating animals for a number of reasons. Primarily because when I looked at what goes on before the meat hits my plate, I was absolutely disgusted and I guarantee you, trying to eat meat after letting myself truly acknowledge what goes on does not "feel right", unless you are really good at getting yourself to ignore. The animals raised for our food consumption are treated with absolutely no respect, and often suffer the vast majority of their lives in confinement.

Furthermore, the meat industry is an absolute nightmare for our environment. In fact, by eating just one less pound of beef, one is saving approximately as much water as they would by not showering for an entire YEAR! It's just ridiculous.

Aside from that, study after study shows that vegetarianism is far healthier than eating meat. By going vegetarian, one immediately eliminating a SHITLOAD of cholesterol from their diet, along with a lot of saturated fats.

To see exactly what it is that animals go through before they hit your plate, take a peek here: www.tinyurl.com/5b5pn

To see the incredible environmental damage the meat industry is responsible for, read here: http://tinyurl.com/jl53v

There are just so many reasons to become vegetarian. But most of all, I believe that no animal should have to go through absolute hell just because we like how they taste. Along with that, eating meat from factory farms is so wasteful, the taste simply cannot balance it out.


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Offlineigwna
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: kody260z]
    #7775322 - 12/18/07 10:09 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

of course animals have spirits that you can connect to.
even more so if you eat them. they are supplying you with means to go on living.

like tribespeople. thank the spirits for their assistance in your living.

i think its how its supposed to be.
i've never not eaten meat, but i guess i can understand where vegetarians are coming from.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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Offlinekody260z
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: igwna]
    #7775402 - 12/18/07 10:26 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

but doesn't part of thanking their spirit involve treating them with at least a LITTLE respect while they are alive? How can we truly respect them and be grateful of their involuntary sacrifice, if they were treated like pieces of a machine their entire lives?


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Offlineigwna
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: kody260z]
    #7775418 - 12/18/07 10:29 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

you can still thank their spirit.

i don't really agree with america's methods but i have to eat..
i would love so much more for someone who does the dirty business of supply my food to thank the spirit of the animal for its meat but thats a little unrealistic.

i would do it myself if america's society was different.

but i still need to eat. and i don't object to the eating of animals just the senseless killing/torture of animals.


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I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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Offlinekody260z
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: igwna]
    #7775434 - 12/18/07 10:33 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

but the thing is, when you eat meat from factory farms, you are directly supporting just that..."the senseless killing/torture of animals". Whether you thank them for it or not afterwards doesn't change the fact that they were treated terribly during their lives. There are just so many other things to eat that don't involve the suffering of an innocent being who has done nothing wrong.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: kody260z]
    #7775567 - 12/18/07 11:07 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

"Aside from that, study after study shows that vegetarianism is far healthier than eating meat. By going vegetarian, one immediately eliminating a SHITLOAD of cholesterol from their diet, along with a lot of saturated fats."

This is simply not true. While it is much easier to be unhealthy while eating meat, it is perfectly possible to eat meat and eat healthy.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: kody260z]
    #7775574 - 12/18/07 11:08 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Any majesty these animals once had was lost when they became domesticated. They are just eating, breathing, beef machines now.

BTW, if we must honor them, why not just eat kosher?


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Offlinefake estate
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7775966 - 12/19/07 01:20 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

we have also altered their genetics through selective breeding, and now through more invasive means, so greatly that they may appear to be dumb and ignorant "animals" but learn ways to commiserate with them and understand that inside every animal is a soul that can feel and think. We humans often place too much importance on our perspective that we forget about the bigger picture...im finally now realizing


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7776041 - 12/19/07 01:47 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Prove to me that they have a soul and I'll never eat a steak again. I see the big picture as the universe, with our lives and the animals lives as an insignificant afterthought. Did you see the news about an entire galaxy being blasted with radiation with a black hole? Think of how many life sustaining planets were wiped out of existence, and you will never hear about them, and perhaps no one did but themselves. That could happen to us one day, and the ramifications would be nil to all the other lives in our universe, so what does it matter if I enjoy veal parmesean every once in a while, theres more baby cows where that came from.


Edited by xFrockx (12/19/07 01:48 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7776939 - 12/19/07 11:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Prove to me that they have a soul and I'll never eat a steak again.

I have a pair of moccasins from a cow.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7776949 - 12/19/07 11:45 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Think of how many life sustaining planets were wiped out of existence, and you will never hear about them, and perhaps no one did but themselves.

But were those planets factory farmed?:crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: Icelander]
    #7777024 - 12/19/07 12:11 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You probably didn't know that I am a vegetarian. I live on beer and Doritoes. :yesnod:


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Offlinefake estate
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7777161 - 12/19/07 12:47 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Prove to me that they have a soul and I'll never eat a steak again. I see the big picture as the universe, with our lives and the animals lives as an insignificant afterthought. Did you see the news about an entire galaxy being blasted with radiation with a black hole? Think of how many life sustaining planets were wiped out of existence, and you will never hear about them, and perhaps no one did but themselves. That could happen to us one day, and the ramifications would be nil to all the other lives in our universe, so what does it matter if I enjoy veal parmesean every once in a while, theres more baby cows where that came from.




since our science and technologies have been getting so much better we must be learning a lot more about the universe..right? Well imagine the things out of your control..there are things greater than us at work..everything seeems to have a pattern...hence why civilization after civilization seem to blamee some higher beings presence for the workings of the universe....we have the technology to see signals in the brains of animals working much like humans do...yet we have never proved the existence of a human soul, much less what the fuck a conscious is or where our thoughts flow from...the only way we know other humans share the same condition is us is through communication (which is just another complex system that works at a level above us all...almost perfectly)

now if any of you have watched other animals you can understand that they too have a form of communication and a strong sense of free will...is that not enough to deduct that they have a soul/spirit/life sense?


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eat more algae.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7777358 - 12/19/07 01:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Prove to me that they have a soul and I'll never eat a steak again



Let me ask you something: Are you a creationist? If not, I assume you believe in evolution(correct me if I'm wrong). Now, I'll also assume based on your statement that humans have soul, or else it would be ok to kill other humans by that logic. Now, if people evolved from other animals, and people have a soul, at what point did people evolve souls? Does the soul go back to Australopithecus? Or does it first appear in Cro-Magnon man?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7777364 - 12/19/07 01:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Using logic again Silversoul.:nono:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7779583 - 12/19/07 11:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I don't believe in souls, no. And I don't eat people because they'd eat me back. Cows are relatively easy prey.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7779590 - 12/19/07 11:20 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Free will /= soul. I think you need a shave, here, here's Occam's Razor.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7779661 - 12/19/07 11:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Triple head with floating beam suspension?


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Offlinefake estate
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7781044 - 12/20/07 12:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShrooMinToXicate said:
you have a problem with living on this planet.
JMPOV




yes I do..I often get very upset by the actions of my fellow human beings


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eat more algae.


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Offlinekody260z
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7785081 - 12/21/07 12:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

"Carnivorous animals are aroused by the scent of blood and the thrill of the chase. Most humans, on the other hand, are revolted by the sight of raw flesh and cannot tolerate hearing the screams of animals being ripped apart and killed. The bloody reality of eating animals is innately repulsive to us, more proof that we were not designed to eat meat.

Ask yourself: When you see dead animals on the side of the road, are you tempted to stop for a snack? Does the sight of a dead bird make you salivate? Do you daydream about killing cows with your bare hands and eating them raw? If you answered "no" to all of these questions, congratulations—you're a normal human herbivore—like it or not. Humans were simply not designed to eat meat. Humans lack both the physical characteristics of carnivores and the instinct that drives them to kill animals and devour their raw carcasses.
If we were meant to eat meat, why is it killing us?

In addition to being anatomically ill equipped to digest meat in the short-term, the long-term damage that a meat-based diet wreaks on the human body confirms that we were not meant to eat flesh. Natural carnivores never suffer from heart disease, cancer, diabetes, strokes, or obesity, ailments that are caused in humans by the consumption of the saturated fat and cholesterol in meat.

Dr. William C. Roberts, M.D., editor of the authoritative American Journal of Cardiology, sums it up this way: "[A]lthough we think we are one and we act as if we are one, human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings, who are natural herbivores."

Studies have shown that even when fed 200 times the amount of animal fat and cholesterol that the average human consumes each day, carnivores do not develop the hardening of the arteries that leads to heart disease and strokes in humans.4 Indeed, researchers have found that it is impossible for carnivores to develop hardening of the arteries, no matter how much animal fat they consume.5

Carnivores are capable of metabolizing all the fat and cholesterol in meat, but humans are a different story: Our bodies were not designed to process animal flesh, so all the excess fat and cholesterol from a meat-based diet makes us sick. Heart disease, for example, is the number one cause of death in America according to the American Heart Association, and medical experts agree that this ailment is the result of the consumption of animal products.6 In fact, meat-eaters have a 50 percent higher risk of developing heart disease than vegetarians, and a low-fat, completely vegetarian diet has been repeatedly used to unclog the arteries of heart disease patients—it not only prevents but also treats the disease!7 Learn more about animal products and heart disease.

In addition to pointing out the damage done by saturated fat and cholesterol, scientists have also shown that eating animal protein can be harmful to human health. We consume twice as much protein as we need when we eat a meat-based diet, and this leads to osteoporosis and kidney stones.8 Animal protein raises the acid level in human blood, causing calcium to be excreted from the bones to restore the blood's natural pH balance. This calcium depletion leads to osteoporosis, and the excreted calcium ends up in the kidneys, where it can form kidney stones. The strain of processing all the excess animal protein from meat can also trigger kidney disease in meat-eaters.

The consumption of animal protein has also been linked to cancer of the colon, breast, prostate, and pancreas. In fact, according to Dr. T. Colin Campbell, the director of the Cornell-China-Oxford Project on Nutrition, Health, and the Environment, "In the next ten years, one of the things you're bound to hear is that animal protein … is one of the most toxic nutrients of all that can be considered."

Eating meat can also have negative consequences for stamina and sexual potency. One Danish study indicated that "Men peddling on a stationary bicycle until muscle failure lasted an average of 114 minutes on a mixed meat and vegetable diet, 57 minutes on a high-meat diet, and a whopping 167 minutes on a strict vegetarian diet."9 Besides having increased physical endurance, vegans are also less likely to suffer from impotence.

Since we don't have strong stomach acids like carnivores to kill all the bacteria in meat, dining on animal flesh can also give us food poisoning. In fact, according to the USDA, meat is the cause of 70 percent of foodborne illnesses in the United States because it's often contaminated with dangerous bacteria like E. coli, listeria, and campylobacter.10 Every year in the United States alone, food poisoning sickens over 75 million people and kills more than 5,000.11 While carnivores can process all the saturated fat, protein, and bacteria in animal flesh, a meat-based diet can send humans to an early grave. Clearly, people were not intended to eat meat."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vegetarian? [Re: fake estate]
    #7785213 - 12/21/07 01:18 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think vegy is so against being human. :lol: Now here's some interesting logic. And how does not eating meat make one a "sad case"? I think the inability to think logically is what makes someone sad. Obviously we disagree here.

humans would never have gotten to where we are today

And where are humans today? Pollution, continual war and famine, lots of seeming unhappiness and mental illness along with all the good things you can site to make your, IMO illogical case. Whos to say if we had decided to not be meat eaters once survival wasn't at stake that the world would now be in a better place and more advanced? You don't really know now do ya?

If you "hate" cruelty to animals you will not support the torture farming of animals but will instead make other choices for obtaining your meat. Somehow I doubt you would consider this and so if I'm correct your statement IMO is self-serving and inaccurate.

The fact that I don't eat meat is not a problem for me living on this planet. If I had a problem then a vegetarian diet would not sustain my life. Again your position is knee jerk and  illogical.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/21/07 01:18 PM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: vegetarian? [Re: Icelander]
    #7785285 - 12/21/07 01:34 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

These humans strongly disagree with the idea that being vegetarian is "against being human":

[Vegetarianism has a] powerful influence upon the mind and its action, as well as upon the health and vigor of the body. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.
--Thomas Edison


Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.
--Albert Einstein


On general principles the raising of cattle as a means of providing food is objectionable. It is certainly preferable to raise vegetables, and I think, therefore, that vegetarianism is a commendable departure from the established barbarian habit.
--Nikola Tesla


The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men
--Leoardo da Vinci


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