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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Icelander]
    #7777062 - 12/19/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Lifting 750 lbs. wouldn't mean much either if you couldn't already fight.

Perhaps not, but powerlifters have core strength like no other athletes.

When I was pretty buffed (i.e. - last month), I messed around with a friend who was fairly sedentary but 6' 9". Holy fuck! He tossed me around like a rag doll. Sometimes raw strength and size can overcome technique.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7777249 - 12/19/07 11:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Strength and technique are both important.

A good technician would just kick out a knee.

But if all you are is bulk then maybe I will put my money on the fast runner.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/19/07 11:13 AM)


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7777301 - 12/19/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

A really strong person could just go for a heart punch and kill the little ninja. There's been pro-wrestlers killed like that before.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7777378 - 12/19/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You have to land that punch and that isn't easy to do on someone who is fast moving. I know this from experience.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineJoseLibrado
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Registered: 04/21/07
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Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7777381 - 12/19/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I open the board to the possibility of this question as being a lead off to anyone who eats factory farmed meat or any meat of any kind.

Would you be able to look into that animals eyes, even the one of the ones in the pictures playing with each other and feel them squirm for life like you would, right before you smash them repeatedly in the head or slit their throat? Would you be able to put pigs and cows face first into scolding water, 400 degrees water and watch them squirm to death screaming for you to stop?the pigs in the first video, which is common in factory farms, have this happen to them.


I know i wouldnt want that pain if i was the pig, especially one of those cute little fuzzy pigs.

oh actually soy is one of the worst plant protiens. You can only digest about 67% of the proteins in the nut. (tofu is about 90%). Hemp seeds are the best, buy hemp hearts. YOu can digest just about 100% of the protein.


I eat organic chicken about or wild fish about one every two weeks and even that because of the last question i think i may cut it out. It is hard being accustomed to eating meat and being disconnected from the processes that make it possible.

Man my friend kept telling me on a chat..."hey man, im not gonna stop eating it, just because someone tells me its bad" He said this like 3 times and 3 times i said "I am not implying it is bad all i ask is that you look at the things you are responsible for occuring and make up your mind if this is who you are,in relation to the pigs." Well he couldnt watch them, because he thought no matter what he wouldnt.

I think it just has to do with proving himself as independent thinker to me and showing me that he influences himself, by telling me that he;'s not gonna stop because of anything i tell him.

This in itself is a though process created for him, by society, in so far as he assumes that there are GOods and bads. His good and bad, dichotomy, however, doesnt include the specifics of what society has taught him, but most definiatly the framework for his understanding of what good and bad are. He see's good now as following your own influence and he is trying to prove to himself he is a good person, by denying that anything someone shows him, has an effect on him.

He has just simply created an extension on the foundation that plagues the human mind, self-rightous conviction.

Though, what i think is at the core of this belief and ultimatly what makes him be scared of change, is believing that good and bad, do not arise mutually, in unity.

If he was within the belief that good and bad, are equally important and arise in unison with each other, sharing one foundational ground in experience, he would have no troubles watching the videos, because he would lack a feeling of threatened by "bad", that in this belief, does not come with good.


He is afraid of being wrong, because he cannot live with being wrong, in so far as he cannot see that to be wrong, one must be right too. Why? If you know yourself to be wrong, you must be right about being wrong. If he knew this he would have no difficulty living up to the possibility of being wrong, that what i was proposing to him to do, definatly had.

A tool that allows us to create this experience with knowing it is the tool of denial.

He like all of us can become like this and if we know what we are, we can see what we can be, which is this.

Here in what we are not, exists the capacity for us to experience who we are, the capacity for the sentence, this is who i am.

What troubles me is being in a habit of denying the importance of who i am not, as critical to the experience of who i am. I utlimatly become, when i do this, self rightous and bitter.

I am making an announcement, for everyone to hear.

I accept myself and the not myself equally. hahaha. Here comes the he who denies to come and play. From one world to the next, ahhh, refreshing.

PEace Peace


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....


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Offlineigwna
The Cap'n
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Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Icelander]
    #7777531 - 12/19/07 12:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
that is the way it is meant to be.


:rofl2: Good sheepie.




if it makes me a sheep to believe that nature got it right the first time.. who is my shepherd?


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: igwna]
    #7777535 - 12/19/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Our early ancestors were vegetarian. So is much of the rest of "nature".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineigwna
The Cap'n
Male

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Icelander]
    #7777571 - 12/19/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

then why is our teeth design made for eating meat?

i'm led to believe that a lot of early man also ate meat.

:tongue:

can i see your sources that say all our ancestors ate only plants?


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



Edited by igwna (12/19/07 12:52 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Icelander]
    #7777623 - 12/19/07 01:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Which early ancestors? How far back are we talking here? Australopithecus? Well, there was one branch known as Australopithecus Robustus which ate mainly roots and tubers, but most evolutionary biologists consider them to have been an evolutionary dead end, and think that instead, Australopithecus Afarensis, which ate meat, was our direct ancestor. Now, going from there:

Homo Habilus -- ate meat
Homo Erectus -- cooked meat (FIRE..GOOD!!!)
Neanderthals -- diet was over 80% meat
Homo Sapiens -- eventually raised their own livestock to eat

Now, if you intended to backwards in evolutionary time to before the first hominids, then we have apes. Our closest evolutionary relatives are the bonobo, which eats mainly fruit but also sometimes eats small vertebrates, and the common chimpanzee, which is omnivorous. Now, I'll grant that the Bonobo may be slightly closer to us genetically, but I don't think scientists have yet discovered the common ancestor we share with them, and can't really be certain what it ate. And of course, if we're going to go that far in determining our earliest ancestor, why not go all the way? Why not go back to the earliest mammals who were likely small insectivores? Or how about the first ambhibian to crawl out of the water? I guess we can all just go back to the first single-celled organism which ate simple carbon compounds. So that's it: No eating anything that's actually living. Just eat simple carbon compounds like our earliest ancestors.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7777814 - 12/19/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How far back are we talking here?

I was referring to our tree dwelling ancestors who ate a basically veggie diet. Personally as I have said I have nothing against meat eating. Go out and hunt something down if you want. I would prefer however if I don't get my meat from the torture camp no matter how inexpensive. My other point was you can be an great athlete and be a vegetarian.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Icelander]
    #7778013 - 12/19/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Our early ancestors were vegetarian




Bullshit. That is why so many spear points and arrow heads have been found from neolithic times. Our ancient ancestors(homosapiens)were omnivore hunter/gatherers. I guess lions, tigers, and bears also had vegan ancestors?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7778182 - 12/19/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

part of the reason homo erectus used fire was to cook meat


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OfflineJoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7778263 - 12/19/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Using how the past collective human action was, to assume something to be correct, implies that you have no freedom to choose what the truth is. Because you measure how a thing should be done, by looking at what our ascestors figured it should be done.

An open question would be: Do you think then, under the logic that our anscestors ate meat, so we should eat meat, then if our anscestors murdered in the name of what they called GOD, we should do it too?

This belief that our teeth are somehow made for meat eating, and that our anscestors ate meat, seems like a final attempt to justify that it is ok to eat meat. And this is fine, i accept that you are making the best decision, likewise, but do you see that justifying something, by means of looking into the past, is denying your own capacity to make a decision, as a creator of reality?:heart:


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7778271 - 12/19/07 04:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JoseLibrado said:
Using how the past collective human action was, to assume something to be correct, implies that you have no freedom to choose what the truth is. Because you measure how a thing should be done, by looking at what our ascestors figured it should be done.

An open question would be: Do you think then, under the logic that our anscestors ate meat, so we should eat meat, then if our anscestors murdered in the name of what they called GOD, we should do it too?

This belief that our teeth are somehow made for meat eating, and that our anscestors ate meat, seems like a final attempt to justify that it is ok to eat meat. And this is fine, i accept that you are making the best decision, likewise, but do you see that justifying something, by means of looking into the past, is denying your own capacity to make a decision, as a creator of reality?:heart:




Awesome :sun:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7778288 - 12/19/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I certainly don't claim that because our ancestors ate meat that we should as well. I just prefer to correct vegetarians who claim the contrary.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7778317 - 12/19/07 04:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bullshit. That is why so many spear points and arrow heads have been found from neolithic times.




Prehistoric plants were much meaner and required a sharp point or blunt force trauma to subdue them.


--------------------


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Offlineigwna
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7778340 - 12/19/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JoseLibrado said:
Using how the past collective human action was, to assume something to be correct, implies that you have no freedom to choose what the truth is. Because you measure how a thing should be done, by looking at what our ascestors figured it should be done.

An open question would be: Do you think then, under the logic that our anscestors ate meat, so we should eat meat, then if our anscestors murdered in the name of what they called GOD, we should do it too?

This belief that our teeth are somehow made for meat eating, and that our anscestors ate meat, seems like a final attempt to justify that it is ok to eat meat. And this is fine, i accept that you are making the best decision, likewise, but do you see that justifying something, by means of looking into the past, is denying your own capacity to make a decision, as a creator of reality?:heart:




Well put. However, I don't think you feel where I'm coming from here.

I wasn't trying to justify my meat eating becuase my ancestors ate meat. Hell, I don't need to justify it at all.

I see nothing wrong with eating meat. I eat meat to survive (I also prefer it in taste). I eat vegetables to survive as well.
My ancestors, yes ate meat.

I said that it was "the way it was meant to be" and was called a 'sheepie.' Maybe that was a close-minded statement. However, I don't see the problem in surviving through meat eating. I should not be labeled a murderer just because I am an omnivore.

I do object to how cruelly our food is treated.
However, this thread isn't about that, is it? I thought it was about (what seems to be a moral view on) whether or not to eat other animals.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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Offlineigwna
The Cap'n
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Registered: 06/19/07
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7778346 - 12/19/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Bullshit. That is why so many spear points and arrow heads have been found from neolithic times.




Prehistoric plants were much meaner and required a sharp point or blunt force trauma to subdue them.




:rofl:


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: igwna]
    #7778362 - 12/19/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

However, I don't see the problem in surviving through meat eating. I should not be labeled a murderer just because I am an omnivore.




There's a HUGE difference between the fact the you personally don't consider that eating meat is a bad thing and stating that we are SUPPOSED to eat meat.
In the first case you admit that eating meat belongs to personal choice and that others are free to make their own choice, whatever that might be.
In the second case you make THIS logical fallacy.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibledaytripper23
?
Male

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7778373 - 12/19/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JoseLibrado said:
This belief that our teeth are somehow made for meat eating, and that our anscestors ate meat, seems like a final attempt to justify that it is ok to eat meat. And this is fine, i accept that you are making the best decision, likewise, but do you see that justifying something, by means of looking into the past, is denying your own capacity to make a decision, as a creator of reality?:heart:




I don't think any meat eaters said they believed they were justified.
Nobody mentioned justice, but now that you bring it up, are you implying that you are justifed in abstaining from meat? It seems to me you are. And not only you, I suspect many others are hinting at this as well.

I think its great that you, or anyone is compassionate. But this is all it is, it cant be put on a scale, or objectified. Seems to me that justice is an imposition on the situation.

If you want to say that meat eating is an injustice to the world, you have to offer a way of living that is justified; that is, completely and objectively ethical.

But on the other hand you want to say that abstaining from meat is compassionate, and we should all try to be this way, I would agree. If those videos at the beginning were attempts to shock people, Im down with that too. Make people aware of what they are supporting, but don't impose it like it should be law. Thats what I think.


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