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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: xFrockx]
#7773865 - 12/18/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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yea i get what your saying. I think this can kind of go with all morals really. Reminds me of some previous threads on this board.
I take it that moral masterbation is the majority of human morals. Id say this is most of the moral vegetarians out there. Im probably still in this boat myself for the most part. Its this attitude that moral obligation has been lifted. "I am not contributing to any kind of pain for any other beings, and in this I am perfect. Now I can finally relax"
Bullshit. If you put moral obligation on yourself, you cant really lift it.
But also I think there are morals based on true compassion. Not this attitude of assumed ethical perfection, for some external cause, but something you just do because you can relate to others.
The concept of morality seems impossible to actually resolve, But you can also be nice to others just because you care about them. You don't take any attitude about it, you just do it because it makes sense.
Maybe it makes you feel good, but this can be a consequence of your compassion. You don't necessarily do it for yourself even though it makes you feel good. This concept is true selflessness as I understand it.
Like this, I think aesthetics and ethics can be bridged. Jesus, Buddha, and all the rest, were artists before they were saints.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: EllisDSox]
#7774444 - 12/18/07 04:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The Shaolin monks are vegetarian, and they could kick the crap out of any meat eating body builder.
Not about diet, but I saw a fifth level black belt pick a fight in the gym with a power lifter. The power lifter fucked him up good.
Moral: don't mess with someone who can dead lift 750 pounds no matter how skilled your techniques.
--------------------
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Icelander]
#7774755 - 12/18/07 05:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The only complete vegetable protein is soy. Spirulina is a healthy food, that I have read about recently, but it lacks the appropriate amounts of lysine to enable the body to use it as a protein source. Once again the best sources of lysine are animal. In combination with a varied diet it is a healthy supplement. There ARE vegetarian bodybuilders who are quite successful. They utilize eggs and dairy to great effect. True vegan bodybuilders are very rare as their only option is soy which is not healthy if used as a primary protein source alone.
Now I ask you? If a omnivorous diet is as healthy as a vegan one (or more so)...and it is, then why should I consider a pure vegan diet? I have no moral compunction with eating animals. I don't worry about such a karmic debt. Unless....your really selling politics instead of health, and I think you are.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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igwna
The Cap'n


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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7775264 - 12/18/07 07:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think it is good to eat other animals. that was what instincts told us and that is what other animals do. that is the way it is meant to be.
nature prevails.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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kody260z
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: igwna]
#7775394 - 12/18/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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But in this day and age, it is absolutely unnecessary; in fact, as many people have already mentioned, study after study shows that the average vegetarian is much healthier than the average meat eater. Does this go to show that all meat eaters are unhealthy and all vegetarians are healthy? Of course not. But all in all, in general, the pattern is the less meat you eat, the healthier you are and the longer you live.
But for those of you who either disagree with this, or who happen to not care about their health, AND don't care about the fact that an animal had to suffer and die because it tastes good, what about the environment? Eating meat from factory farms is an ecological NIGHTMARE (see http://tinyurl.com/jl53v for proof). If we don't care about our health or about animals, don't we at least care about the planet?
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xFrockx



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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: kody260z]
#7775433 - 12/18/07 08:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The average vegetarian is healthier than the average meat eater because by becoming vegetarian you are making a conscious decision about your diet. The average meat eater never even does that, and thus will probably live a less healthy lifestyle. It means nothing.
As for ecology, well fuck, where are we going to plant all these damn things? Gotta make room somewhere.
Edited by xFrockx (12/18/07 08:33 PM)
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igwna
The Cap'n


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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: kody260z]
#7775443 - 12/18/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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i understand that. i wish it was different. but i am reluctant to say i probably won't change and give up eating meat over it. 
does this make me a bad person?
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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kody260z
Stranger

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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: xFrockx]
#7775444 - 12/18/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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True, but how do you conclude that that means nothing? If I decide to start eating 100 Snicker's bars a day, isn't that also a conscious decision about my diet? The fact that being vegetarian is healthier on average than a meat eater is because just that - eating a vegetarian diet is generally a healthier dietary decision than eating a meat-filled diet.
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kody260z
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: kody260z]
#7775461 - 12/18/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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no it doesn't make you a bad person. But I think each of us has the power to make a difference, even if it is just reducing our consumption of meat, rather than eliminating it.
And as for "As for ecology, well fuck, where are we going to plant all these damn things? Gotta make room somewhere.", while intuitively it seems like if the world were vegetarian, we would need more plants, this is actually incorrect. It takes up to 13 pounds of grain to create just one pound of meat - it is a VERY inefficient conversion of calories. The more meat consumption decreases, the less animals are consumed, AND the less plants are consumed. It is a win-win situation.
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kody260z
Stranger

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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: kody260z]
#7775469 - 12/18/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Raising animals for food is grossly inefficient, because while animals eat large quantities of grain, they only produce small amounts of meat, dairy products, or eggs in return. This is why more than 70 percent of the grain and cereals that we grow in this country are fed to farmed animals. It takes up to 16 pounds of grain to produce just one pound of meat, and even fish on fish farms must be fed 5 pounds of wild-caught fish to produce one pound of farmed fish flesh.17,18 All animals require many times more calories, in the form of grain, soybeans, oats, and corn, than they can possibly return in the form of animal flesh for meat-eaters to consume.
The world's cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth.19 About 20 percent of the world's population, or 1.4 billion people, could be fed with the grain and soybeans fed to U.S. cattle alone."
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panmndgyold
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: daytripper23]
#7775472 - 12/18/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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dog eat dog man eat dog god tea nma
tea enemas?
Edited by panmndgyold (12/18/07 08:47 PM)
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xFrockx



Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: kody260z]
#7775511 - 12/18/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would say eating 100 snickers bars a day would be an unconscious health decision... but thats just me.
The fact of the matter is, meat eating is the "default" diet for people. Those who become vegetarians are doinf so for any number of reasons, one of which may be the supposed health benefits. Those who eat meat do so because thats what they were raised on, so if they continue it, they are doing so based only on previous experience, not a health or moral decision. So, many of those who eat meat and never change will become obese people simply because of the fact that they don't eat right. Would these people be healthier as vegans? Possibly, but they could be every bit as healthy staying on their omnivorous diet and eating healthy. It may not be great to eat a lot of red meat and the like, but fish and seafood, especially raw, have undeniable health benefits that could sustain a person and keep them in good health if it were a part of their diet.
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kody260z
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: xFrockx]
#7775554 - 12/18/07 09:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Of course, I'm not denying the fact that it is quite possible to eat meat and still be healthy. I'm just pointing out the fact that all in all, statistics show that the less meat one consumes, the more likely they are to be healthy. Furthermore, there is a whole slew of other problems from the meat industry (animal suffering, environment, even human starvation) that all can be combated with simple dietary modifications. That's all.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7775634 - 12/18/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: The only complete vegetable protein is soy.
Incorrect. Other complete protein sources for vegans are quinoa, hemp seeds, spirulina, just to name a few.
Quote:
Spirulina is a healthy food, that I have read about recently, but it lacks the appropriate amounts of lysine to enable the body to use it as a protein source. Once again the best sources of lysine are animal.
Incorrect. Here's more info. about Spirulina.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/spirulina-000327.htm
Quote:
True vegan bodybuilders are very rare as their only option is soy which is not healthy if used as a primary protein source alone.
No, again, this is incorrect. You assume that an individual must consume a single source of essential amino acids in order to obtain protein. If you eat foods containing the amino acids, though none of them may be individually "complete," your body obtains the necessary macronutrient building blocks.
Quote:
why should I consider a pure vegan diet?
The only reason to consider a pure vegan diet is if you want to maximize your chances of living a long, healthy life.
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: panmndgyold]
#7775971 - 12/18/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
panmndgyold said: dog eat dog man eat dog god tea nma
tea enemas?
i don't get it
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: xFrockx]
#7776564 - 12/19/07 06:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have felt guilt from eating animals my whole life. And decimated animal species. I am an animal lover, and I have always had pets. I have three parrots now. Everybody knows that can't be easy. Yet, being a cook, I cook and serve and eat animals. Personally though I cook vegetarian food half of the time for my family.
My thought was that I would always love to own a cow retirement community and let them live out their days happily. Karmicallly speaking I think that would be a good way to pay off the negative.
-------------------- ...or something
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7776848 - 12/19/07 09:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
The Shaolin monks are vegetarian, and they could kick the crap out of any meat eating body builder.
Not about diet, but I saw a fifth level black belt pick a fight in the gym with a power lifter. The power lifter fucked him up good.
Moral: don't mess with someone who can dead lift 750 pounds no matter how skilled your techniques.
That's a stupid moral. Just because someone got a fifth level degree from Acme martial arts doesn't mean they can fight. Lifting 750 lbs. wouldn't mean much either if you couldn't already fight.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7776886 - 12/19/07 09:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: The only complete vegetable protein is soy. Spirulina is a healthy food, that I have read about recently, but it lacks the appropriate amounts of lysine to enable the body to use it as a protein source. Once again the best sources of lysine are animal. In combination with a varied diet it is a healthy supplement. There ARE vegetarian bodybuilders who are quite successful. They utilize eggs and dairy to great effect. True vegan bodybuilders are very rare as their only option is soy which is not healthy if used as a primary protein source alone.
Now I ask you? If a omnivorous diet is as healthy as a vegan one (or more so)...and it is, then why should I consider a pure vegan diet? I have no moral compunction with eating animals. I don't worry about such a karmic debt. Unless....your really selling politics instead of health, and I think you are.
I think you are incorrect about soy. Did you check out quinoa and millet. And of course one doesn't eat only one type of food in a day. You would have some difficulties over time if you only ate chicken.
Since our ancestors seemed to have eaten a mostly vegetarian diet at one time I think one can thrive on it. As far as Vegan diets go and although I am eating vegan these days, I'm not so sure of that only because we don't have access to enough vegetable variety's that are not commercial hybrid vegetables. I'm doing the vegan thing as a cleansing and healing diet and I don't think I will stay on it for more than one to three years.
Politics is a big thing for me. I resent torture farming and I am loathe to support it. I also wonder if the stress that those animals undergo does not leave chemical traces in the muscle that by ingesting might do me harm not to mention the hormones and other nasties. For me it just ain't right.
All I am saying is that you don't need to eat meat to grow big muscles and be a high energy athlete. So if you eat meat it's because you enjoy it and accept the suffering of those animals for your pleasure. I don't care what you choose.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: igwna]
#7776888 - 12/19/07 09:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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that is the way it is meant to be.
Good sheepie.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: panmndgyold]
#7776895 - 12/19/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
panmndgyold said: dog eat dog man eat dog god tea nma
tea enemas?
You're already banned.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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