|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7771156 - 12/17/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
From www.bodybuilding.com
Very often I am asked if eating the amount of protein required of a bodybuilding diet will lead to kidney damage. This FAQ will answer this question and hopefully put all of your fears to rest.
A. Fact is that there are no studies that have ever shown a high protein diet causing kidney damage in persons with normal kidney function. Only people who already have a pre-existing kidney condition need to be concerned with keeping their protein in check.
In a study(1) that was performed this year designed to study the effects of a high protein diet in young men, the blood markers for kidney function of 77 men who participated in an average of 6 hours of weight training per week (average age of 26), and ate a diet consisting of 19% protein were analyzed. Their protein intake came out to be about 0.76 grams of protein per pound bodyweight, which is very close to the 1 gram per pound minimum that is typically recommended for bodybuilders.
Primary blood tests for kidney function were ran in which blood urea nitrogen, uric acid and creatinine levels were monitored. The measurements showed that all of these items were within normal parameters in all participating men. Therefore, one can conclude that a high protein diet does not apply stress on healthy kidneys.
It must be mentioned that kidney function naturally declines with age due to the gradual loss of nephrons which are the kidney's filtering units. This loss can be caused by ailments like heart disease since in this case the blood flow to the kidneys is reduced. Also untreated high blood pressure can lead to kidney damage as well as long term use of prescription and non prescription pain relievers such as aspirin.
--------------------
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7771171 - 12/17/07 07:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Bodybuilders are notorious for ignoring valid health research results & advocating excessive protein intake. 
This forum is not really the place for a debate about protein, however, and I've already extensively addressed this issue in the P&M forum.
|
Boots
Disenchanted


Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7771196 - 12/17/07 07:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I eat animals because it's tasty, necessary, and convenient. I really don't care how they die.
|
JoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7771203 - 12/17/07 07:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Huehue - Just Eat hemp protein, you will be much better off. Hemp is the most ancient crop we have ever planted. The oldest human relic from a civilization 10000 BC china, is a shoes made out of hemp.
Hemp protien and hemp hearts(the protein part of the seed) contain essential fatty acids and 100% digestible proteins. I suggest looking into it...as for me, i think because of my blood type or something in me, that screams meat, i need to eat chicken about once a month. Fish would be fine too. Always organic too for reasons of the way they raise conventional chickens.
What is more is the negative vibes coming from the meat that lives such a life is unbalancing and makes me aggresive.
peace amigos
-------------------- The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution. And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change. Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems. Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
|
lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7771214 - 12/17/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
ok cool
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7771253 - 12/17/07 08:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bodybuilders are notorious for ignoring valid health research results & advocating excessive protein intake.
Your personal opinion of muscleheads is irrelevant. The website merely linked to a university study presented at a sports & fitness symposium with full controls and tests done by PhDs, not gym rats.
If you wish to counter to a study that shows protein as damaging to a healthy kidney, that would be a much better response.
--------------------
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7771299 - 12/17/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
My recent experience has shown me that to build the amount of muscle that I am after (and that I have built in the last 3 months) that protein levels slightly above the norm are a definite help. In addition to running 5 miles daily, I also spend about 60 minutes a day with resistance training, and my greatest gains in strength and muscle mass are in direct correlation to my intake of lean proteins. One can maintain a fair amount of muscle with as little as 30 grams a day, but to gain over 25 pounds of muscle (not fat) would be very difficult to do (if not impossible) with a vegan diet. Plant proteins are not complete proteins, and much food combining is needed to make these proteins usable for building muscle. Too much protein can be damaging to the kidney's, but that would require in excess of 400 grams of protein daily to accomplish. If one consults reference literature based on objective science the burden of proof leans heavily in my direction. There is no evidence that being vegan leads to better health. It more seems that people who follow a balanced diet with a wide variety of whole foods and maintain a healthy body weight are the healthiest be they vegan or not. It is fine if you want to be vegan...I think that it is great, but your facts are skewed somewhat. A diet is a means to an end and there is NO cookie cutter diet. As for me, I am enjoying excellent health, and while I do not know what "hormonally balanced" means I am more happy and clear minded than I have ever been.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7771319 - 12/17/07 08:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
This forum is not really the place for a debate about protein, however, and I've already extensively addressed this issue in the P&M forum.
So while you can express your views here you shoot down the attempts of others to express theirs...how open minded.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7771366 - 12/17/07 08:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
All of my reading and recent experience has shown me that the quickest route to lean body mass and strength is by using the methods pioneered by bodybuilders. There is no doubt that these methods work. Bodybuilders spend more time achieving this than anyone, so their methods should not be ignored. I myself have lost 150 pounds by these methods and I have become intensely active, while maintaining skyrocketing energy levels, and I think my experience is worth considering.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7771517 - 12/17/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
what do you mean by that? you lost weight by changing your diet to include more protein?
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7771610 - 12/17/07 09:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:
This forum is not really the place for a debate about protein, however, and I've already extensively addressed this issue in the P&M forum.
So while you can express your views here you shoot down the attempts of others to express theirs...how open minded.
No, I responded to your post, even though it was not really on-topic for this forum. I am not going to re-post the extensive research I have already linked to on at least 3 other threads in the appropriate forum for this discussion.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6779751#6779751 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6977640#6977640 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7148099#7148099
As I said, it is fine for you to decide that you WANT to eat meat, but it is not a fact that animal protein is necessary to build muscle or maintain health.
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7771655 - 12/17/07 09:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
You did not link to your study, so I cannot evaluate the validity of the sample size, selection or study methodology. If you are interested in contrasting studies, please see the links I posted to threads in the forum which actually deals with these topics.
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7771753 - 12/17/07 09:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The articles you posted links to just affirm that a vegetarian or vegan diet can be a healthy choice. I never said that it wasn't. I said that you cannot gain a large amount of muscle on a vegan diet easily. For someone who is not very physically active a vegan diet can suffice, but to engage in the activities that I am pursuing strength and endurance are a must. For strength and endurance muscle is required. I have seen no legit studies that deny my conclusions about protein....quite the opposite.
Quote:
it is not a fact that animal protein is necessary to build muscle or maintain health.
Just saying this does not make it true. I would argue that you personally have no relevant experience that demonstrates that your diet choice builds muscle as you are effectively an indoor, inactive person.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
|
More lean protein, more vegetables, more fruit, no junk, exercise, and calorie restriction. It is a total package.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7771914 - 12/17/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Well, you are certainly free to ignore the evidence I've already linked to. As to your personal assertions: which of us uses a car for daily personal transportation?
|
xFrockx



Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7771973 - 12/17/07 10:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
All the animals in the world suffering doesn't make any difference because we are a speck of dust and all of us could die tomorrow and nothing would matter.
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: JoseLibrado]
#7772090 - 12/17/07 10:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
It's good, although it is not an ideal energy source.
Here's some food for thought:
The biggest animals - elephants, hippopotamuses, giraffes, horses, gorillas, and rhinoceroses - all eat predominately green vegetables. Where do they get the protein necessary to grow so big? They get it from the greens they eat.
All protein on the planet is formed from the effect of sunlight on green plants. A cow doesn't eat another cow to get the protein necessary to build its muscles (which we call steak). The protein comes from the grass the cow eats.
Most people mistakenly think they need to include animal products in their diets to ensure adequate protein intake.
But the reality is that it is easy to get more than enough protein eating a plant-based, whole-foods, vegetarian diet. Plus, it is much easier to digest and thus puts a lot less strain on the body.
--------------------
Edited by AlteredAgain (12/17/07 10:59 PM)
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7772126 - 12/17/07 11:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Veritas said: Well, you are certainly free to ignore the evidence I've already linked to. As to your personal assertions: which of us uses a car for daily personal transportation?
Which of us uses a demolecularizer / remolecularizer for daily transport?
--------------------
|
daytripper23
?


Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: daytripper23]
#7772426 - 12/18/07 12:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Woot! done with classes. Now I can waste my braincells at the shroomery.
Might it occur to you diet elitists, that health is more than getting your daily vitamins and minerals? I know that it is a biological concern, but theres a whole lot about diet we dont know about.
Im vegetarian, but this sounds like some major imposition going around here. I can understand if your crusade is for ethical reasons, which isnt my territory at all, but it doesnt seem like this is the main concern here...
Edited by daytripper23 (12/18/07 12:41 AM)
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7772793 - 12/18/07 03:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
My assertions are very true. I did read the articles, but only the abstracts were actually there. The links to the other part of your evidence required I subscribe to something. In any case I have yet to see any evidence that a healthy vegan diet is any better than a healthy diet that includes a wide variety of foods including meat. I have also read about this subject extensively, and the current accepted science tells me that protein IS needed to build muscle, and that without a good complete protein source it will not happen. When one seeks to lose weight one MUST create muscle to acquire long term weight loss. Weight loss can occur with a vegan diet, but without rebuilding the muscle lost in the process the fat will return because muscle burns fat. My experience which is based on choosing the quickest and most practical route to my goal has taught me that my stance is practical and workable.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (12/18/07 04:28 AM)
|
|