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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Psychoslut]
#7787940 - 12/22/07 02:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
eventually the pig will lose nearly all its intelligence because intelligence is no longer necessary in a system where food appears regardless of how smart you are
Im no biologist or scientist, but this question is really interesting to me.
Do animals actually get dumber, slower, less muscular, based purely on enviromental response?
Is there such thing as de-evolution? Less pronounced (x), or does adaptation, evolution necessarily move foward.
Maybe it would be hard to support or prove this either way though... Hope this isnt off topic.
Sure recession is proven to exist, but is it not always in favor, or relative to some other kind of trait?
Is pure de evolution possible?
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: daytripper23]
#7789658 - 12/22/07 04:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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This de-evolution scenario is unlikely to play out. Genetic traits are not 100% responsive to environment. The way natural selection works is that new organisms inherit genetic material from both parents. If the offspring survives to procreate, and especially if the procreation is at a greater rate or with greater viability than OTHER organisms, then the genetic traits possessed by the offspring have a chance at being expressed in the next generation.
Selected traits are not deliberately responsive to the environment, they are just lucky. The only way that a pig would lose intelligence with every passing generation is if lack of intelligence somehow fostered survival or successful procreation, or if intelligence led to an early death or failure to procreate. (I could make a joke here about rednecks, but I'll take the high road. )
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7789752 - 12/22/07 04:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I could make a joke here about rednecks, but I'll take the high road.
Sorry, toots. You already took the low road and slandered about 10% of the American population.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7789768 - 12/22/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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They'll never know unless someone reads it to them.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7789793 - 12/22/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Note upside-down book:
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7789802 - 12/22/07 05:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You'd think he'd notice that the PICTURES were upside-down.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: JoseLibrado]
#7789865 - 12/22/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Causing any self-conscious being to suffer is unethical, but I don't worry about the suffering of non-conscious beings and feel free to eat them.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#7789876 - 12/22/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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And your metric for consciousness is...?
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7789885 - 12/22/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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He won't eat anything with a brain?
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7789937 - 12/22/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: And your metric for consciousness is...?
There is a slew of psychological tests... none are definitive and nobody seems to agree on what consciousness is, but hell, its a start.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7789939 - 12/22/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Like a blonde?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#7789943 - 12/22/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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How many ganglia constitute a brain?
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Veritas]
#7790453 - 12/22/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The way natural selection works is that new organisms inherit genetic material from both parents. If the offspring survives to procreate, and especially if the procreation is at a greater rate or with greater viability than OTHER organisms, then the genetic traits possessed by the offspring have a chance at being expressed in the next generation. Selected traits are not deliberately responsive to the environment, they are just lucky.
i don't understand what you mean there
Quote:
The only way that a pig would lose intelligence with every passing generation is if lack of intelligence somehow fostered survival or successful procreation, or if intelligence led to an early death or failure to procreate.
there are two reasons i think factory farmed pigs will become braindead over time
1. random mutations will eventually break the genes responsible for controlling pig intelligence 2. having a large brain is a disadvantage because brain tissue consumes a lot of calories, which means the pig eats more
in the wild pigs need their relatively large brain to survive
that level of intelligence is not necessary in a factory farm. all a pig needs to survive in the factory is control over automatic breathing and blood pumping, as well as eating, shitting and sleeping
food comes from the same place everyday, there is no shortage of it
the farmer controls which pigs breed through artificial insemination
because intelligence is no longer a factor limiting who passes on their genes, those areas in the pigs genetic code will gradually mutate randomly without consequence. eventually these mutations will render those genes unusable
here are some examples of this process with other animals:
cave dwelling animals (animals that spend thier entire life in lightless caves) that lack eyes, or have small remnants of eyes that in the past were fully functional
the human eye, which still has the remnant of a nictitating membrane. this membrane was part of the eye of a distant ancestor but no longer works (it's the small pink ball under your eyelid nearest to your nose)
the first few generations of farmed bison were able to give birth without any help from their human controllers, unlike cattle, which need help from humans to give birth. later generations of bison are now having more trouble giving birth by themselves because of the help given to them by humans in previoun generations
2. having a large brain is a disadvantage because brain tissue consumes a lot of calories, which means the pig eats more
highly intelligent pigs require more food than those just smart enough survive in the farm, because brain tissue uses more energy than most other organ tissue. it would be a benefit to the farmer if the pig had a smaller brain, since a smaller brain means less food and expense raising the pig
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Maybe the pigs could be raised in caves using infrared cameras to monitor them. They might then evolve into sightless creatures incapable of running away. Having the legs removed at birth might be another fine solution to that problem. I see the ultimate evolution of that species as pigs raised in huge jars of liquid nutrient that would encourage and greatly accelerate the growth of muscle tissue to abnormal and unatural lengths. These "pigs" would be devoid of eyes, legs, and brains for the most part. They would maintain a medulla for the operation of fundamental tasks such as breathing and heart beat. A colostomy bag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colostomy) would be used to remove waste such as fecal matter and urine.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7790618 - 12/22/07 09:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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that's a really good idea
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Tumor development would probably run rampant under such conditions, but there is no reason it could not be processed in with the meat. We meat eaters always try to come up with healthy solutions to todays problems...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (12/22/07 11:30 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: Diploid]
#7791706 - 12/23/07 07:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Well if the torture of animals helps you meet your self centered goals
How about someone who humanely raises and eventually butchers their own food animals in order to stay "off the grid" of industrial animal harvesting?
Have I ever stated anywhere that I object to meat eating on principle? (for others)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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life is good
Sun and sky and trees



Registered: 07/03/18
Posts: 1,205
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: JoseLibrado]
#25612595 - 11/13/18 05:29 PM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
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nah,
what about you?
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I didn't draw this. "Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: life is good]
#25614504 - 11/14/18 01:57 PM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
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if the meat is as old as this thread it will kill you
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Do you think it is good to eat other animals? [Re: laughingdog]
#25617169 - 11/15/18 06:52 PM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: if the meat is as old as this thread it will kill you
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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