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OfflineCakes
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Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
    #7765948 - 12/16/07 03:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

From http://heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml?necessary_repost

Thoughts?

Quote:

You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless Bitch for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.




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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: Cakes]
    #7766052 - 12/16/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with this in a way. I think it could have been condensed to simply this though.

Women want a confident nice guy.


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7766208 - 12/16/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

hmm never thought about it this way, ive been in that postion several times in the past but my current gf (18 months still strong) has showed me the error of my ways and ive changed a lot (for the better i hope) away from that kind of thinking


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7766239 - 12/16/07 04:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i have to agree w/ the bitch who wrote this article.

i made many of these errors as a younger man and learned from my mistakes. i can admit that I practiced the whole pedestal-placement thing, and trying to get girls via the friendship route. both avenues to regular sex ended poorly. but i have learned that you can be confident and not a douche bag at the same time.


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

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Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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OfflineSampaJasli
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: MrBump]
    #7766613 - 12/16/07 06:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

that site is pretty cool
lots of interesting articles and rants and stuff
there's also a section where she replies to peoples emails by ripping them apart.

I found this article in particular, pretty cool:
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/brutal.shtml


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Offlinefazdazzle
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: mushroomplume] * 1
    #7767435 - 12/16/07 09:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

oliveplume said:
I agree with this in a way. I think it could have been condensed to simply this though.

Women want a confident nice guy.




Agreed.

This article is about the "worst case scenario," which honestly, is how common? These are the ultimate recluses, who don't have true appreciation for themselves, as she mentioned.


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: fazdazzle]
    #7768251 - 12/17/07 02:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I reckon the problem is that 'nice guys' aren't discriminating enough about who they date. You need to have the courage and self-esteem to sift through the bitches (and aresholes if you are a girl) because there are plenty enough, until you find a nice girl. If a girl has any integrity and brains she will try to find a relationship based on common interests and be attracted to nice guys for real not superficial reasons. That's what I reckon. Charming people are the ones to watch out for - charm is one form of manipulation and you have to keep your guard up for other forms of manipulation and power games til you know if they are really a bitch/arsehole or nice.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflinePoisonedV
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: enotake2]
    #7768260 - 12/17/07 02:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It's easy to see that this whole bitch thing isn't just a facade. She is a bitch, and she can't accept it so she goes and makes a fucking lame blog.

Awesome. :rolleyes:


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Lazy...


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: PoisonedV]
    #7768265 - 12/17/07 03:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

eh? how? I think you must have misread my post.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflinePoisonedV
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: enotake2]
    #7768269 - 12/17/07 03:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was just replying to the original post


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Lazy...


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: PoisonedV]
    #7768286 - 12/17/07 03:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

lol. oh ok. Agreed.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: Cakes]
    #7768521 - 12/17/07 08:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

A bit of an extreme example, but it makes sense.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: Cakes]
    #7773922 - 12/18/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I completely agree but what it comes down to is saying women prefer confidence to any thing else.

So those of us that experience anxiety of any form are fucked.

I would say most men have no problem with anxiety in a women but clearly women will see anxiety in men as desperation etc.

Interesting after all that we see it comes from heartless-bitches.com, lol.

Quote:

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk.




Ha, but insecurity is basically the opposite of arrogance.
It all becomes so clear - women want both. The want the man to appear to be ego-inflated so they find them sexy but then after a few weeks they want them to be the nice guy so that they don't have to deal with the bad decision of an 'arrogant' man.

Of course, men exist that are confident and not arrogant but I bet you will find loads more confident arrogant men because its easy to be confident when you are arrogant.


Edited by Ego Death (12/18/07 02:05 PM)


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Offlineiamconfused
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: Ego Death] * 1
    #9102530 - 10/20/08 12:06 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

It's all a byproduct of natural selection. Women instinctually  don't want to 'mate' with insecure/anxious men, because those are not what one would typically consider strong survival traits. It's unfortunate because a lot of insecure/anxious men have a lot of good things to offer, but they just don't know the right way to go about it. It's probably unfair that such men get ignored or trampled on as a result (in that it becomes a negative loop that feeds insecurity/anxiousness), but what are you going to do?

The best thing is to not base self-satisfaction on relationships. There are so many great things in this world that there is no need to obsess over women. If by chance you hit it off with a good girl, then great. But until then, just focus on improving your life. Try to get out there and experience new things, try to always express your true self in social situations, and be confident in the fact that you are an interesting person and that you don't need a girl to be worthwhile. Don't chase after women and try to be 'nice' by putting up with a girl who is boring you, aggravating you, or just making you feel bad. Just cut that shit out.

I am someone who probably [ok, definitely] fell into that 'nice guy' trap, and let me tell you fools, it's not worth the effort. Just be yourself and the chips will fall into place if they were meant to.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: iamconfused]
    #9104774 - 10/20/08 03:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

FUCK YES!!!!


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: iamconfused]
    #9104804 - 10/20/08 03:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

iamconfused said:
The best thing is to not base self-satisfaction on relationships. There are so many great things in this world that there is no need to obsess over women. If by chance you hit it off with a good girl, then great. But until then, just focus on improving your life. Try to get out there and experience new things, try to always express your true self in social situations, and be confident in the fact that you are an interesting person and that you don't need a girl to be worthwhile. Don't chase after women and try to be 'nice' by putting up with a girl who is boring you, aggravating you, or just making you feel bad. Just cut that shit out.

I am someone who probably [ok, definitely] fell into that 'nice guy' trap, and let me tell you fools, it's not worth the effort. Just be yourself and the chips will fall into place if they were meant to.




:congrats:


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9105821 - 10/20/08 07:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

never thuoght id see this thread again :what:


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #9105870 - 10/20/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i can't agree with this.  some of us are nice guys and have self-confidence.  but because we are not aggressive, usually results in us not getting what we want (because some girls do want to be treated like a piece of meat first, after all, that's why many women dress the way they do...they crave the attention) or eventually losing it


i'm laid back and am not going to go out of my way for a girl in a lot of the ways they want.  however, if i'm in a relationship, you sure as hell better believe i'm going to treat her right, while being respectfully playful/mean


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Invisiblesherm
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: demiu5]
    #9106602 - 10/20/08 09:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

its not that its a "nice guy vs asshole" thing. its that a girl must be kept in a constant state of self doubt or she will move on.
being an asshole is one way of achieving this.


--------------------
shroomery.
not even once.



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Invisiblesherm
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: sherm]
    #9106614 - 10/20/08 09:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

there are exceptions of course


--------------------
shroomery.
not even once.



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Offlineconutant
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: sherm]
    #9124709 - 10/24/08 12:40 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

It is so true.  I use to be a nice guy.  For 2 years actually.  She would walk all over me.  Then one day she was like " I wear the pants in this relationship" 

I guess my ego got the best of me and I started acting.. well... a little mean. 

Boy that was a change!  More sex (as much as I could handle(never thought that would happen))

I'm not saying this is right to do.. Now I just act like me... not nice or mean and it seems to work out. 

I think you have to think of yourself first because alot of girls do.. don't be there for every need and want.  Make your self important.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: Cakes]
    #9128819 - 10/24/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I agree that women want a confident guy, duh, but this post takes something so simple and stretches it to preposterous proportions and makes "nice guys" sound like pathetic insecure losers who completely rely on women to give them self worth. Not true!

Quote:

PoisonedV said:
It's easy to see that this whole bitch thing isn't just a facade. She is a bitch, and she can't accept it so she goes and makes a fucking lame blog.

Awesome. :rolleyes:




Quote:

demius said:
i can't agree with this.  some of us are nice guys and have self-confidence.  but because we are not aggressive, usually results in us not getting what we want (because some girls do want to be treated like a piece of meat first, after all, that's why many women dress the way they do...they crave the attention) or eventually losing it


i'm laid back and am not going to go out of my way for a girl in a lot of the ways they want.  however, if i'm in a relationship, you sure as hell better believe i'm going to treat her right, while being respectfully playful/mean




--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: demiu5]
    #9128835 - 10/24/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think different girls like different men. Attraction varys from person to person and is a question of personal taste and life experience. Its the same with men choosing females. Some men like the confident types others like the shy type. Nature likes variety because it makes our species more adaptable. Thats why we are all attracted to different types of people, so that we can keep the gene pool varied.


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: DimensionX] * 1
    #9129531 - 10/24/08 11:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Every relationship is different, but the fundamental "nice guy" traits espoused in this article do create somewhat predictable or at least likely dynamics in relationships. I fit the description in days past, which was terrible; I went through emotional hell because of women. But I learned much and grew a lot stronger because of it.

You deserve whatever you give yourself in life, a fact which I find tremendously important and worthy of writing down and reading everyday. Don't expect to ever find sustainable satisfaction if you settle for less than you desire and go for whatever girls will flick you attention. Like they say, you ain't gonna hit a home-run if you don't swing the bat! Otherwise you're set up to be inevitably fucked over and it will only make you feel worse. It wore me down so much that I was either going to die or metamorphose into a new me, and thank God for that.

It isn't really about being an asshole. It's about not being afraid to go after what you want instead of taking whatever comes along and feigning contentedness. You have to find that contentedness within yourself before girls come into the scene.

The case in point here is Tucker Max (www.tuckermax.com). The first impression you get from this guy is that he's an arrogant asshole - which to be fair isn't always untrue. But he has slept with hundreds of class A girls and when you read enough of his shit, his secrets become clear - he just isn't afraid of being himself and going after what he wants (and he's very intelligent). That's really what it all comes down to...you have can great looks, tons of bank, whatever...but if you aren't fundamentally confident in who you are and what you want, save yourself the trouble - there will be no shortage of it - and get a hooker.


--------------------
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OfflineManianFHS
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: Cakes]
    #9132445 - 10/25/08 03:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

who was this written by a teenager?

fuck this nice guy bullshit labels. if youre nice youre nice. that doesnt have anything to do with confidence or insecurity or that bullshit. It CAN, but its a personality trait, just like being an ass, or being insecure or whatever.

Its ok to be nice, just be human to others and expect to be treated like a human.


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: ManianFH]
    #9132482 - 10/25/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

there is a difference though between somebody whos overly nice and someone who just trys to put out good vibes to people


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And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
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Re: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS [Re: ManianFH]
    #9132496 - 10/25/08 03:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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