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OfflineVyrk
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Registered: 12/12/07
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Question LC filters.
    #7761077 - 12/15/07 07:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't wanna be bored asking this, but no one post talks about why use the filter in the LC.

Some post use micropore tapes, other use Tyvek filters, I can consider only in the case of the Filter disks that they allow to pull out all the CO2, but, In case of a hole with a micropore filter?... and in both cases they have success...

What should happen if I use not any kind of filter?... Should this be a problem?, and why?, Acidification of the media??...

Pleace, somebody say what he thinks or, if someone has tried without air filter, please post!.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Vyrk]
    #7761088 - 12/15/07 07:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The filter is to allow gas exchange. LC's emit CO2 just like BRF/verm jars and that CO2 needs a place to go. The fancy filter discs are a little nicer than the tyvek or micropore tape because you can shake them by hand without wetting the filter and creating a vector for contamination. You can avoid using a filter altogether by injecting fresh air into your LC every couple of days. Check out the LC jars Mycopath sells for an idea of what I'm talking about.


--------------------

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InvisibleDontPlay
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Vyrk]
    #7761090 - 12/15/07 07:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I guess im wondering if the only reason for the need of gas exchange is to battle contams like cobweb mold ? If you were using a airpump to pump air into a flask of water inside your grow chamber would that take care of it?


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OfflineMYSTIQUE
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: DontPlay]
    #7761093 - 12/15/07 07:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)



hahahahaha if you can keep a dry layer of verm in a lc ill give you a million bucks.


--------------------
Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS
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I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt                         
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:onfire:DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!:onfire:


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InvisibleDontPlay
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7761094 - 12/15/07 07:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think im confused about what LC stands for. I thought he was talkin about the filter disc's for the jars.


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OfflineMYSTIQUE
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: DontPlay]
    #7761103 - 12/15/07 08:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

liquid culture that stuff that looks like piss and sperm.


--------------------
Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS
http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary
I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt                         
Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt
Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet
Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat,

:onfire:DO NOT USE FIRE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX!!!!!!!:onfire:


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: DontPlay]
    #7761105 - 12/15/07 08:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Liquid Culture.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Nibin]
    #7761142 - 12/15/07 08:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Fungi consumes oxygen. If you fail to provide fresh air, the mycelium will not grow. If you provide dirty air, your culture will be contaminated. That's the reason for filters on all cultures, liquid or solid.
RR


--------------------
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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: DontPlay]
    #7761144 - 12/15/07 08:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DontPlay said:
I guess im wondering if the only reason for the need of gas exchange is to battle contams like cobweb mold ? If you were using a airpump to pump air into a flask of water inside your grow chamber would that take care of it?




The mycelium needs air to grow. If the CO2 is allowed to build up in the LC jar, you will eventually suffocate it and stall growth. I'm not sure what you mean by an airpump in your grow chamber. The question was about a liquid culture, which doesn't need to be in a grow chamber.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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OfflineVyrk
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: FooMan]
    #7764010 - 12/15/07 11:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

But, think this you guys, Why the C02 should go away from the LC?, just because you make a hole?... The C02 is heavier than Air...

The only thing that will pull out C02 should be the osmotic pressure. But then again, you have the filter resistance, the gravity and also the fact that the jars are in a environment which already has a concentration of C02 (incubation chamber)...

Also, the mycelium is not a air breathing machine, I know it consumes O2 but it also grow in low O2 environments.

And now, taking away the fact that the CO2 should go away from the jar just only because he is a good person with happy feeling, what you recommend me to do?

I'm thinking in maybe introduce the Oxygen by another way, like minerals (KNO3) similar with explosives.

And this take me to another little question, Why should distilled H20 give O2 to the Mycelium?


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OfflineVyrk
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Vyrk]
    #7764086 - 12/15/07 11:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I have been reading something about the fungi anatomy, and you know there are two kinds of hyphae inside of the mycelium, the vegetative hyphae and the mature hyphae...

The mature hyphae has the skill of producing sexual organs and the vegetative hyphae has the skill of taking out nutrients from other organisms or substrates. Here is were come the important thing, the vegetative hyphae doesn't need 02 to make energy, it has the evolution learned skill (sorry fundamentalists) of taking out the energy of all kind of sugars ans biological structures.

Not like us or like plants which need to oxidate some sugar to take this energy...

Otherwise, the mature hyphae need O2 for other things, not for energy. I think to know where is the surface, same as light.

And so... trying to end this...

The micro-production of C02 should bring the concentration of C02 in the LC-MEDIA at the maximum, and this should stop any kind of 02-dependent activity in the LC-MEDIA...

So?, someone can justify me the use of filters in the LC cultures?


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Vyrk]
    #7764266 - 12/16/07 12:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Basic biochemistry. Mycelium

1 molecule of glucose decomposed anaerobically (without O2) = 2 ATP

1 molecule of glucose decomposed aerobically (with O2) = 36/38 ATP

That is 18/19 times more energy per molecule of glucose in the LC

Even though gas exchange is low through filters in LC's is low, there will still be some diffusion going on, plus, if the LC is done as recommended and stirred often, that stirring will create air currents which will also get rid of some of the stale air inside the jar.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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OfflineVyrk
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Nibin]
    #7764416 - 12/16/07 01:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Nibin, you are wrong, the CO2 wont go away from the water just shaking it... It`s like the sugar or tea, its posses his own water solubility (145kg/m^3). This remind me something...

And those oxidation of glucose, is for the Cycle of Kreps, as I said, for us, not for the fungus.

KC and the Fungusband.

Ah, everybody get on the bath, let's grow
Yes, fight the contams give your myc a chance
Shake shake! shake your LC!
Shake shake! shake your LC!

Oh, you can, you can do it, very well
Your honey can stand the myc, I can tell

Oh, shake, shake, shake - shake, shake, shake
Shake your LC, shake your LC
Oh, shake, shake, shake - shake, shake, shake
Shake your LC, shake your LC, wow wow, yeah!


Edited by Vyrk (12/16/07 01:18 AM)


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Vyrk]
    #7765144 - 12/16/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Vyrk said:
What should happen if I use not any kind of filter?... Should this be a problem?, and why?, Acidification of the media??...

Pleace, somebody say what he thinks or, if someone has tried without air filter, please post!.




Back to your original question. I've tried it without a filter and it worked fine, but the colonization was slower. Why post the question when you seem to have a well thought out and researched answer already? :rolleyes:


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: FooMan]
    #7765196 - 12/16/07 11:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Above discussion between Vryrk and I about necessity of air exchange in and LC etc has moved to MSN.

If we reach some kind of conclusion I imagine we'll post something.

We didn't want to monopolize the thread with a load of no your wrong because this and no you are wrong because of that, as he is mostly interested in hearing from people who grow their LC's without using filters.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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OfflineVyrk
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Nibin]
    #7767069 - 12/16/07 07:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, Nibin is right, we are thinking together on this... And we can add to this talk that: The mycelium grows slowly when he has no Oxygen, so, the only good motive to use filters is to have a faster mycelium now, if you can't get any reliable filter its better not to use it.

And FooMan, that is the reason why this is called "forum"... I wanna talk, and understand things.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Vyrk]
    #7767206 - 12/16/07 08:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

lost


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PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
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Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
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Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Vyrk]
    #7768512 - 12/17/07 08:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Vyrk said:
And FooMan, that is the reason why this is called "forum"... I wanna talk, and understand things.




NO SHIT! :smirk: My problem isn't the content of your post, just the presentation.

Quote:

Vyrk said:
What should happen if I use not any kind of filter?... Should this be a problem?, and why?, Acidification of the media??...




Why not just come out and say that you don't think you need a filter for LC's in the title of your post and explain your reasoning behind it? Instead, you present the question like you're ignorant about the subject and wait for others to answer you. Then you come back with a prepared answer of your own to contradict the answers you knew you were going to get in the first place.



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OfflineVyrk
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: FooMan]
    #7768558 - 12/17/07 08:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No Fooman, you are wrong, I don't have in first place a prepared answer... and what I was specting to get is a "Yes, I do it without filter and I have no troubles".

Please Fooman, don't take this personal.


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Question LC filters. [Re: Vyrk]
    #7768605 - 12/17/07 09:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I have grown out LC's with and without a filter...

the filtered jars have always grown mycelium much better.


I have used many different filters over the years...

and this one actually worked out the best...



and you can make it using a metal lid...also.




the mycelium was as thick as snot!~


tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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