|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
self evident IMO
To the origional post, they are equivalent in my subjective view.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
vigilant_mind
unfazed



Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
Re: Killing vs. Letting Die [Re: Icelander]
#7757750 - 12/14/07 10:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Here's my own opinion on the matter:
Killing versus letting die are equally wrong.
A famous philosopher by the name of James Rachels has the same view as I do, and he defended the view by presenting an example which illustrates the parallelism between killing and letting die.
The example is as follows:
James Rachels' Case of the Greedy Person and his Young Cousin
In the first, Smith stands to gain a large inheritance if anything should happen to his six-year-old cousin. One evening while the child is taking his bath, Smith sneaks into the bathroom and drowns the child, and then arranges things so that it will look like an accident. In the second, Jones also stands to gain if anything should happen to his six-year-old cousin. Like Smith, Jones sneaks in planning to drown the child in his bath. However, just as he enters the bathroom, Jones sees the child slip and hit his head, and fall face down in the water. Jones is delighted; he stands by, ready to push the child's head back under if it is necessary, but it is not necessary. With only a little thrashing about, the child drowns all by himself, 'accidentally' as Jones watches and does nothing. Now Smith killed the child, whereas Jones 'merely' let the child die. That is the only difference between them. Did either man behave better, from a moral point of view? If the difference between killing and letting die were in itself a morally significant matter, one should say that Jones's behavior was less reprehensible than Smith's. But does one really want to say that? I think not."
Edited by vigilant_mind (12/14/07 10:28 AM)
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Killing vs. Letting Die [Re: Icelander]
#7757751 - 12/14/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|

vs.

I dunno. Seems kind of different to me.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Killing vs. Letting Die [Re: Silversoul]
#7757760 - 12/14/07 10:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Not in the big picture. Both those folk will die no matter what you do.
The rest is up to what you decide are the actions you would like to take in relation to any situation.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Quote:
Since everyone has dodged my initial question thus far...
I gave you an answer Mr. Over Generalization.
--------------------
|
vigilant_mind
unfazed



Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
|
My bad.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
If you are an American (or member of another coalition forces nation) and did not actively do your utmost to stop the war, then you are guilty of murder.
Is this your stand?
--------------------
|
vigilant_mind
unfazed



Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
|
That would not qualify as murder, that would be letting die.
But no, because proximity and relation must be taken into account.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
In the outdoor adventure / thriller movie, "The Edge", The Hopkins character saves the Baldwin character's life and later Baldwin attempts to kill his benefactor and while doing so falls into a bear trap and is severely wounded. Hopkins saves his life once more.
If it had been me, I would have let the fucker bleed out and felt good about it.
--------------------
Edited by OrgoneConclusion (12/14/07 10:47 AM)
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
|
Quote:
vigilant_mind said: No, because proximity and relation must be taken into account.
So then it is your position that it is more moral to save someone you know personally than to save a total stranger? That sounds more like attachment than morality.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Killing vs. Letting Die [Re: Silversoul]
#7757806 - 12/14/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
It's just more satisfying.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
vigilant_mind
unfazed



Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
Re: Killing vs. Letting Die [Re: Silversoul]
#7757808 - 12/14/07 10:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Actually, you're right. Relation is more of an attachment issue rather than a moral one. I stand corrected.
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
|
An interesting article on morality:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/morality-definition/
Icelander's POV is actually referred to as moral skepticism, not moral relativism. You are proposing a normative view of morality, and both Icelander and MushroomTrip propose a descriptive view of morality.
Killing someone or letting them die are both ethically questionable, meaning that that these actions fall within the realm of ethics. (Moral philosophy). My method of questioning would be specific to both the individuals AND the circumstances involved, and I would not necessarily arrive at the same conclusions as anyone else.
Personally, I would prefer to never kill anyone OR let anyone die, but would do so if the individuals and circumstances involved led me to believe it was necessary. For example, I would let someone die if I knew that, to them, their life was no longer worth living. I would kill someone if they were going to harm me or my children. I would also kill someone if they wanted to die & could not manage to end their own life.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Killing vs. Letting Die [Re: Veritas]
#7757844 - 12/14/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I want to go swimming with you.
Is that off topic?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Killing vs. Letting Die [Re: Icelander]
#7757866 - 12/14/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: I want to go swimming with you.
Is that off topic?
I would think that you would recognize V by now. That is NOT her image in the avatar - doh!
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
But isn't that you seeming to suck off that guy in yours?
Am I still off topic?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Killing vs. Letting Die [Re: Icelander]
#7757885 - 12/14/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
She is 'sucking off' (it is called 'drinking') a Coke. 
Do you project sexuality onto everything?
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Only into you sweetness.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
|
Quote:
So, what you're saying is that you have no concept of right versus wrong?
Of course I have. This is basic stuff, it's instinctual, we need it for survival. This is exactly why those concepts have NOTHING to do with morality. It's just a way of sorting things out in a manner that suits my best interests. With other words, no matter how "good" one action of mine might seem, helping others and anything similar to that, it is good to keep in mind that the first and the most determinant reason for doing it was to serve MY best interest.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
You're so selfish MT.
(but in a good way )
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
|