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OfflineOzekat
Cosmic Observer
Male


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 186
Loc: Kentucky
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: Silversoul]
    #7766061 - 12/16/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
In 1950 there was only 2 Billion. In fifty past years that has more than doubled again to 7 Billion. Projections are only that. Reality is scarier.



These projections are based on reality, and the reason they've been shrinking over time is that population growth peaked in the 70's and has been declining ever since, often faster than originally predicted.

Quote:

At any rate the planet's entire arable structure is changing extremely rapidly so something's going to change soon, or it's going to be soilent green, for reals....



The fact of the matter is that there is plenty of arable land, but unfortunately much of it is kept out of use by land speculators, which is why a fair and effective form of land reform is needed.




damn land speculators and rich rednecks with 200 more acres than they know what to do with

Ahem. Either humanity will see through to the core of our ultimate mistake, trying to CONQUER reality and nature, or they shall not and a small few will continue on their self-perceived paths of righteous ownership, control, hate and greed.

It is in our hands, though. More so us than most.

I personally grimace at the thought of the police force in the years to come, w/out true reform and total social revolution.

1984 anyone?


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Tension is who you think you should be. Relaxation is who you are.
- Chinese Proverb

:teleport:

:yinyang: Beauty & Simplicity


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte Flag
Last seen: 24 days, 11 hours
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: Ozekat]
    #7766364 - 12/16/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

1984 already. Todays NY Times Headlines:

Wider Spying Fuels Aid Plan for Telecom Industry
By ERIC LICHTBLAU, JAMES RISEN and SCOTT SHANE
The Bush administration is working to persuade Congress to pass legislation protecting companies that aid the N.S.A.’s warrantless eavesdropping program.


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...or something







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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: eve69]
    #7766524 - 12/16/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I've noticed a disturbing trend while reading newspapers of journalists openly calling on the Canadian or American governments for being like "Big Brother" but not in a warning kind of way, just passing it off as a sort of useful adjective.. the only proper way I can describe this is "double speak/double think". It's the kind of thing where if they can say it enough times and always put it in a certain kind of context, the words themselves become meaningless and they no longer set off alarm bells in the reader's mind. The words "Big Brother" becomes the opposite of what it really means, and the notion that our governments could ever become THE Big Brother becomes laughable.

I see a lot more of this in the near future - things will get noticeably worse but there will be a pretense of all these things actually being improvements.


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Offlinewyldeman007
Student
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Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 309
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7767275 - 12/16/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There's going to have to be a couple more terrorist incidents before we start to see a change. Even though I won't vote for Hilary, I'm really interested of how a woman leader will affect the world. Who knows, research shows that women are better leaders then men, this country might start a trend if that's true.

In response to the central topic of this thread, I believe that our egos are much too large to allow ourselves to auto-extinguish. If the human race is truly going to be in any immediate jeopardy, "big brother" will intervene.

Just surviving puts us with the dinosaurs, if a cataclysmic event materialized before us, simply enduring isn't enough. We need to as a species thrive and evolve if we are to rein on any astronomical/galactic scale.

We have the potential and all the time we need, logically, being ambitious men and women it's just a matter of time..


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"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here." - Richard Dawkins


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Offlinelongjump26
InAwe4Shrooms
Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 20
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7767430 - 12/16/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I tend to have a pessimistic belief of the world. I personally believe we are on the verge of a massive change. You can see it everywhere if you care to look an educate yourself. Actually, I think were f#$ked! Most experts would say that we actually eat oil since our entire agricultural system is dependent on oil. From the gas that runs the machines to the systems that process the food to the trucks that bring it to your local store. Especially the fertilizers and pesticides we rely on today for the massive yields produced by our agricultural industry.Which today take something like 150% the amounts per acre they started using initially in the early 1900's. Because of constant soil depletion from the introduction of massive unbalanced amounts of NPK. Also the decline in oil production(Peak Oil) and increase in global consumption with the introduction of huge markets like India, Russia, and China. Not to mention the steadily climbing global temperatures which will bring about massive species extinction within the next 50 years, global crop failure, and Global water shortages with just a 2 degree rise in average temp. Which will lead to world war over diminishing resources. NO civilization that has ever been based off of irrigation has ever survived for long because its inherently unsustainable with the practices we employ. But hey there might be a renewable energy revolution.......o wait its to late.The current estimate is something like 30 years to change our infrastructure from one dependent on oil to a alternate source of renewable energy.......In short we are FFFFF@#$%#$%@$^%A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its not if some bad stuff is going to happen its when. IN reality these arent the only problems facing our entire planet just the ones that are right around the corner. But hey me an about 10000 scientists in different fields in different countries might be wrong. My advice get a gun, a nice place away from a city with a deep water supply and learn to grow your own food.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: longjump26]
    #7767496 - 12/16/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

All the problems you mentioned are simply symptomatic of being in an outdated paradigm. One of the reasons we rely so much on fertilizers and pesticides is because our agriculture is dominated by big agribusiness rather than small farms like we used to have. Crops tend to be pretty susceptible when you have a lot of monoculture like we have.

Quote:

NO civilization that has ever been based off of irrigation has ever survived for long because its inherently unsustainable with the practices we employ.



I dunno about that. The Romans lasted pretty long.

Quote:

But hey there might be a renewable energy revolution.......o wait its to late.The current estimate is something like 30 years to change our infrastructure from one dependent on oil to a alternate source of renewable energy.



The transition is already underway. The first thing we need to do is be more efficient with the oil we do use. This is already possible with hybrid cars and smart building techniques, which ultimately cost less to use than conventional building techniques. 30 years sounds like quite a reasonable transition. We don't have to immediately get off of oil in order address peak oil. As the price of oil rises, we will use less and less of it, until we don't need it at all.

Quote:

But hey me an about 10000 scientists in different fields in different countries might be wrong.



Seems to me that these scientists are just offering projections of how things operate now and how long it will take to fully make a transition. The rest is your interpretation, and you just seem to interpret the data pessimistically.


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Offlinewyldeman007
Student
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Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 309
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: longjump26]
    #7767542 - 12/16/07 09:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

longjump26 said:
But hey there might be a renewable energy revolution.......o wait its to late.The current estimate is something like 30 years to change our infrastructure from one dependent on oil to a alternate source of renewable energy.......In short we are FFFFF@#$%#$%@$^%A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Have you watched 'Eco-Tech', I can tell you that 30 year estimation will change. It's my personal belief that the technology already exists in labs everywhere, the only problem is how the hell are the corporations gonna turn a buck if the only facilities they posses are oil guzlers?
The future is now!


--------------------

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here." - Richard Dawkins


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: wyldeman007]
    #7767549 - 12/16/07 09:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wyldeman007 said:
Have you watched 'Eco-Tech'



One of my favorite shows. :thumbup:


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Offlinelongjump26
InAwe4Shrooms
Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 20
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: wyldeman007]
    #7767717 - 12/16/07 10:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yes they are all symptoms and just a few. And yes they are my interpretations of the world and yes they are pessimistic. I invite you to research sustaible farming practices an the ones we employ today. Monocultre isnt the problem its the use of unbalanced fertilzers introduced into the soil without any respect for micronutrients, micro organisms, and total eco systems that need to be established in our agri system to create any real longevity in our system. Without modern fertilizers and pesticides the soil we use would have long been considered unusable. They will constantly require more an more. In the last 25 years the nutrional value of our crops have dropped something like 36% but fertilizer use has increased on a per acre bases. Even small farms arent the answer. but This is too large a topic for me to gointo in a forum you need to do your own reading. Im afraid that you will find yourself suprised try "The pillar of sand" or " The miracle of irrigation". I agree there are soulutions but too little to late. My pessimism isnt derived from what technology can or cant do. My pessimism comes from my understanding of people and how stupidity seems to win over all else. 30 years is a long time the last time i checked also. especially when all it will take is a singular event to start a castarophic series of events that seem to be taking place already. A projection is based on facts that are collected and these problems have been around for a really long time, present in all cultures all governments and as of yet they are unsolved.There isnt a renewable resource that will be able to magically save us, not ethenol not fuel cells not solar not nuclear. some of those would have worked about 10 years ago if we had started then. But lets say the business world does get its shit together and turn it all around were still looking at a stretch of years that wont be pleasent.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: longjump26]
    #7767754 - 12/16/07 10:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I certainly agree the transition may not be so pleasant. I figure we can either start the transition now, and it will be fairly easy, or we can wait until shit hits the fan and have a quick, rough transition. Either way, we WILL get through this. It's just a matter of how painful the transition will be.


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Offlinelongjump26
InAwe4Shrooms
Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 20
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: Silversoul]
    #7767767 - 12/16/07 10:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

well from what i can see "painful" will mean a lot of deaths no matter how you look at it. someone inevitabley receives the shit end of the stick.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: longjump26]
    #7768244 - 12/17/07 02:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

longjump26 said:
But hey me an about 10000 scientists in different fields in different countries might be wrong.




Look at me niggas, I got my scientist homies watchin' my back. :smirk:

:rofl2:

Appeal to authority is boring. :yawn:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: longjump26]
    #7768246 - 12/17/07 02:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

longjump26 said:
well from what i can see "painful" will mean a lot of deaths no matter how you look at it. someone inevitabley receives the shit end of the stick.




That's called life. You live life, and then you die. Stop being so dramatic. :hehehe:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7768248 - 12/17/07 02:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
That's called life. You live life, and you get your butt kicked and spanked :hehehe:




:smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
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Re: Your Take On The Future of Earth [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7768600 - 12/17/07 09:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I believe the ultimate renewable resource is stupidity. It's a truism of history that The State justifies itself as based in the seeming ability to maintain a status quo. But since The State cannot control such things as weather, natural environment, dwindling resources, and even cannot control basic human emotions and thought, which all changes, due to variables which are not understood (even weather cannot yet be predicted with all the computing on Earth), thus The State will not remain. Of this I am certain. The State that we live in, history has shown us, cannot endure. In most of our lifetimes we have seen the fall of one seemingly indomitable state - the USSR - something it seemed could never happen.

Not that I think The State is worth shit. My personal opinion, alligned with that of many Anarchists is that The State is not a necessary evil, but rather, a huge waste of evolutionary capability and adaptability of the people, and a huge waste of resources. In fact, The State, is really just a self perpetuating machine for evil. The State is quite the opposite of humanitarianistic motivation. It seems to serve where status quo and necessity of The State are made to seem more apealing and necessary. But that's simply not the case.

The State is about comfort and maintaining an illusion of ability to control. As soon as comfort and control are no longer options so also The State will go into overdrive and status quo will become maintained through force.

We all have been born into some sort of tacit belief that we are somehow owned by The State. Nolens Volens it is called. The Tacit Contract. The State owns us because while we were yet unable to think, act, decide, we were born into it. Doesn't make sense? No, it doesn't.

People thus, as based in this scenario of The State as maintaining against all other realities, as semblance of status quo and semblance of control, (for our comfort), upon this basis I predict that the lesser intelligent candidate will always win popular control of the government. Not the more intelligent candidate. If you want a popular candidate you must look to the one which appeals to the gut, to the superstition, and to the illogic. Thus even though Bush is on the way out of the Whitehouse, his basic tenet for being there in the first place is still intact. Maintain illusion of control, maintain status quo of level of material and societal comfort, against any cost. Because The State must maintain control as against any cost, even freedom, or democracy, or the health of anyone besides the governing body. The State itself is evil.

Thus, I see the End of Times as wrought by Christian fanatics from the start of the religious body politic, who have worked for millenia to come to the fore as the governing body of The World. The very term 'Catholic' which means 'Universal' had itself political implications fom the very first. And, if one is not religious then that person can see the machinations of political questing for domination in the entire works of 'The Bible' and other such creations of Machivellian intellects, all inspired by their own human formed visions.

Thus a Church State is what was planned from the first days of the Catholics. The myth lives on, even though the people do not. American politics now are clearly illustrating this. With 'Christian' campaigners gaining the majority of votes, even though most of them are merely mealymouthing, as one cannot truely speak of God, and enemies, in the same breath.

It is certain to me that the religions of the Middle Earth (Middle East) will go to battle. I don't believe there can be another choice. As human blindness, lack of ability to switch places with other humans and fallow mentality will lose the day for all of life upon the planet. Irrationality coupled with The State, and Catholic prophecies like 'Revelations' are sure to push humanity to the brink of extermination. As Sam Harris said, while total devastation may seem like the worst of outcomes, to Christians it presages the Second Coming of Jesus, so therefore it would be seen as the most auspicious of times.

It would be easy then to hate Catholicism and Christianity as the perpetuaters of this mythos. However, it was not these religions, which are not 'things' in themselves, but rather they are tools again used by The State, and by a certain oligarchy or republic who have themselves specifically and sardonically manipulated these religions to their own ends. Thus, Christianity is already no longer. Christianity has been dead since Constantine and Constantinople. Only the feeling and dream of goodness remains for the few, who are not the majority.

I mean, look around, every gun-strapped dude on the street has a cruxifix. This is the real catholicism as practiced by The State and our betters. We are well and truely fucked. Especially as America is the hugest and most powerful and dishonest compartmented megagovernment of all human history, controlling not just itself but all of human endeavor along arbitrary lines of banking and commerce. Whatever we will is what will be.

We are at a hugely dangerous turnaround and narrow straights. This jeremiad is not really unjust, I don't believe. I am not damning the USA alone. All States, that is, every government in the whole world is a piece of the puzzle, and each one wants to manitain status quo against all odds. Only, the USA is so huge and so looming and so able to perpetuate the particular religious madness of the popular mentality that the USA just cannot but help to mess up.

I know this because I mess up all the time. And the governments are no better than I am.

So my vision is dismal. I am sorry. I mean, there's not even any more great rock n roll any longer. It's all emo and punkpop. So how can shit get better? There will never be another first fifty years of rock. From here on out it will all be some sort of unoriginal copycatting. Thus things cannot get better. Fire and light are over. It's time for the dullness to set in and people to enjoy being numb and oblivious. this is my future cast. Dullness, numbness, and obliviousness. That's America, that's the world body politic. Scientists and visionaries sit down your day is through. Before it ever truely began.


--------------------
...or something







Edited by eve69 (12/17/07 09:20 AM)


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