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OfflineTheMan420
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a beginner trying to do something with nothing
    #7753903 - 12/13/07 02:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

let me start by saying that it seems that trail and error has bought me to the conclusion that i need to make my own spawn as Ive tried using 5 pre-sterilized spawn bags from a good vendor with no luck!
So here we go again and i use 6 half pint BRF cakes and make a casing with them using a 50/50 and i get contams! I thought i was a natural cause the first time i did it i got loads from my casing it was like 86g fresh off the one flush!

Ok now i have 3 pint jars of the PES Hawaiian strain colonizing and really there doing good! faster than the half pints i had!

The question i had was i wanted to get a bunch of shrooms off of a casing and with the pints i guess its better if i went for the dunk and roll method thats fine with this grow but for my next one i want to do it right and get my fruits of labor! so i looked into WBS and got a 10lb bag of Kaytee wild bird food for like 3 bucks! better than the price of the organic brown rice Ive been using. So is there any ideas how i should do my next grow with this WBS Ive looked around for Hpoo but its out of season so no place carries it around me, i could order online and get some. than do something like spawn my WBS than make a 2nd spawn with Hpoo and WBS and than case this with a 50/50 or a pure verm? or even just do one spawn with 12 pint jars!

P.S. Ive looked around for teks on WBS and Hpoo together and didn't find much plus i wanted to get an idea of what other people that have tried this have experienced so any comment or suggestions on how i should do my next grow and this time I'm doing it for the Shroomery and all of you, so its going to be done right!


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: TheMan420]
    #7753974 - 12/13/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i no expert.. so im not gonna answer.. but i must say that i find it VERY humorous that Horse Poo is "Out of season"

dont horses shit in the winter?? im not aware of this phenomenon


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: Slimz]
    #7753986 - 12/13/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

If you sterilize and inoculate wbs, then you still have at least 3 weeks to figure out which substrate to use and obtain it.

At the very minimum, you could go to a crafts store and get wheat straw. Go to a garden nursery store and get coir (or a pet store). Go to a home improvement store and get verm and miracle grow moisture control. Go to starbucks and get free coffee. Punch a hole in your wall and get a free handful of gypsum. Go to whole foods or an organic store and get rye berries. Open a phone book and look up horse stables.


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Offlineewikk055
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: Fraggin]
    #7754002 - 12/13/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

whole foods has some dank cookies son.


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OfflineTheMan420
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: ewikk055]
    #7754067 - 12/13/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Horse Poo is "Out of season"



well in the stores they don't stock it when theres snow on the ground so...
i just love all of your responses!lol
Materiel's i have 1)hydrated lime
2)verm
3)gypsum
4)WBS
5)Peat moss
6)BRF
7)miracle grow moisture control- by the way i didn't know you could use this!kool!
well i think I'm just going to order some dehydrated horse manure and than mix my WBS and that together for 12 pint jars and see what happens and make a 50/50 casing, and i mite just order some coir just for the hell of it. any other idea out there?


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: TheMan420]
    #7754092 - 12/13/07 02:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheMan420 said:
Quote:

Horse Poo is "Out of season"



well in the stores they don't stock it when theres snow on the ground so...
i just love all of your responses!lol
Materiel's i have 1)hydrated lime
2)verm
3)gypsum
4)WBS
5)Peat moss
6)BRF
7)miracle grow moisture control- by the way i didn't know you could use this!kool!
well i think I'm just going to order some dehydrated horse manure and than mix my WBS and that together for 12 pint jars and see what happens and make a 50/50 casing, and i mite just order some coir just for the hell of it. any other idea out there?




Some people use MGMC for casings, and some have used it as substrate succesfully. In your situation, a place that sells lizards, snakes and reptiles would be a place to get an easy to use dependable substrate (coir). I would check that out before you order hpoo. Also, you can grow in compost, (though I never have).


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OfflineTheMan420
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: Fraggin]
    #7754121 - 12/13/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

so coir is basically the same thing as hpoo? cant you use it for casings as well like 60/40?


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: TheMan420]
    #7754133 - 12/13/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Coir fibers are found between the husk and the outer shell of a coconut. The individual fiber cells are narrow and hollow, with thick walls made of cellulose. They are pale when immature but later become hardened and yellowed as a layer of lignin is deposited on their walls. There are two varieties of coir. Brown coir is harvested from fully ripened coconuts. It is thick, strong and has high abrasion resistance. It is typically used in mats, brushes and sacking. Mature brown coir fibers contain more lignin and less cellulose than fibers such as flax and cotton and so are stronger but less flexible. They are made up of small threads, each about 1 mm long and 10 to 20 micrometres in diameter. White coir fibers are harvested from the coconuts before they are ripe. These fibers are white or light brown in color and are smoother and finer, but also weaker. They are generally spun to make yarn that is used in mats or rope.

The coir fiber is relatively water-proof and is one of the few natural fibers resistant to damage by salt water. Fresh water is used to process brown coir, while sea water and fresh water are both used in the production of white coir. [1]


[edit] Processing

Segregation of Coir fibre (Allepey, India)Coconuts are the seed of the palm trees, these palms flower on a monthly basis and the fruit takes 1 year to ripen. A typical palm tree has fruit in every stage of maturity. A mature tree can produce 50-100 coconuts per year. Coconuts can be harvested from the ground once they have ripened and fallen or they can be harvested while still on the tree. A human climber can harvest approximately 25 trees in a day, while a knife attached to a pole can up the number to 250 trees harvested in a day. Monkeys can also be trained to harvest the coconuts, but this practice is less efficient than other methods. Green coconuts, harvested after about six to twelve months on the plant, contain pliable white fibres. Brown fibre is obtained by harvesting fully mature coconuts when the nutritious layer surrounding the seed is ready to be processed into copra and desiccated coconut. The fibrous layer of the fruit is then separated from the hard shell (manually) by driving the fruit down onto a spike to split it (De-husking). A well seasoned husker can manually separate 2,000 coconuts per day. Machines are now available which crush the whole fruit to give the loose fibres. These machines can do up to 2,000 coconuts per hour.


[edit] Brown fibre
The fibrous husks are soaked in pits or in nets in a slow moving body of water to swell and soften the fibres. The long bristle fibres are separated from the shorter mattress fibres underneath the skin of the nut, a process known as wet-milling. The mattress fibres are sifted to remove dirt and other rubbish, dried in the sun and packed into bales. Some mattress fibre is allowed to retain more moisture so that it retains its elasticity for 'twisted' fibre production. The coir fibre is elastic enough to twist without breaking and it holds a curl as though permanently waved. Twisting is done by simply making a rope of the hank of fibre and twisting it using a machine or by hand. The longer bristle fibre is washed in clean water and then dried before being tied into bundles or hunks. It may then be cleaned and 'hackled' by steel combs to straighten the fibres and remove any shorter fibre pieces. Coir bristle fibre can also be bleached and dyed to obtain hanks of different colours.


[edit] White fibre
The immature husks are suspended in a river or water-filled pit for up to ten months. During this time micro-organisms break down the plant tissues surrounding the fibres to loosen them - a process known as retting. Segments of the husk are then beaten by hand to separate out the long fibres which are subsequently dried and cleaned. Cleaned fibre is ready for spinning into yarn using a simple one-handed system or a spinning wheel.


[edit] Uses
Brown coir is used in floor mats and doormats, brushes, mattresses, floor tiles and sacking. A small amount is also made into twine. Pads of curled brown coir fibre, made by needle-felting (a machine technique that mats the fibres together) are shaped and cut to fill mattresses and for use in erosion control on river banks and hillsides. A major proportion of brown coir pads are sprayed with rubber latex which bonds the fibres together (rubberised coir) to be used as upholstery padding for the automobile industry in Europe. The material is also used for insulation and packaging.

The major use of white coir is in rope manufacture. Mats of woven coir fibre are made from the finer grades of bristle and white fibre using hand or mechanical looms. White coir also used to make fishing nets due to its strong resilience to salt water.

In horticulture, coir is recommended as substitute for peat because it is free of bacteria and fungal spores, and is sustainably produced without the environmental damage caused by peat mining.


[edit] Major producers
Total world coir fibre production is 250,000 tonnes. The coir fibre industry is particularly important in some areas of the developing world. India, mainly the coastal region of Kerala State, produces 60% of the total world supply of white coir fibre. Sri Lanka produces 36% of the total world brown fibre output. Over 50% of the coir fibre produced annually throughout the world is consumed in the countries of origin, mainly India. Together India and Sri Lanka produce 90% of the 250,000 metric tons of coir produced every year.


[edit] Waste / By-products
Coir fibres make up about 1/3 of the of coconut pulp. The other 2/3 is called the pith or dust, it is biodegradable but takes 20 years to decompose. Once considered useless it is now being used as mulch, soil treatment and a hydroponic growth medium.[1]


See also
Coco Peat

Yes you can use it for casings as well, but it can be prone to overlay since it is nutritiuous. I gives a shit about overlay because I have many forks in my home.


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Offlineewikk055
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: Fraggin]
    #7754139 - 12/13/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yea since we came upon the topic of miracle grow I'd like to mention I'm doing an experimental grow.(at least for my own experimentation)

_per 1/2 pint jar tapered_

It consists of 1/2 cup MGMC
1/4 cup of homemade BRF
And the moisture that I thought was fit for the MGMC

The cakes are being kept in a cooler in a area that is at about 70-75 degrees f.

The strain is golden teacher.


and sorry for the thread jacking, I had to bring it up since MGMC was brought into his equation.


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OfflineTheMan420
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: ewikk055]
    #7754177 - 12/13/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ewikk055 said:
yea since we came upon the topic of miracle grow I'd like to mention I'm doing an experimental grow.(at least for my own experimentation)

_per 1/2 pint jar tapered_

It consists of 1/2 cup MGMC
1/4 cup of homemade BRF
And the moisture that I thought was fit for the MGMC

The cakes are being kept in a cooler in a area that is at about 70-75 degrees f.

The strain is golden teacher.


and sorry for the thread jacking, I had to bring it up since MGMC was brought into his equation.



thats fine let us know how it turns out! im interested in this Mircle grow has i have a $#!% ton of it!
i will have to look more into this coir as well!


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Edited by TheMan420 (12/13/07 03:12 PM)


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Offlineewikk055
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: TheMan420]
    #7754194 - 12/13/07 03:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'll give updates as the project starts to progress.


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Offlinewhereismymind
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: ewikk055]
    #7754272 - 12/13/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

don't want to discourage you but if it was a trusted supporter of shroomery i don't understand the rate of having 5 spawn bags and 5 lost to contamination , and also your own casings too ..
Maybe it is something about your growth environment that is responsible of the failures , if something is happening over and over again . it is time to re consider everything from the scratch ..
Peace =)


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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: whereismymind]
    #7754295 - 12/13/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So back to the original post. Why are you having trouble with the spawn and contams. Before looking into all the new stuff try to determine what went wrong in the first place. It seem that you are trying to do something that has already proven itself to you and many other as being successful so why chuck it and try something new. In other words stop running around like a chicken with its head cut off and focus on something simple and master it. Then you can move on to bigger and better things.
Trout


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Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.


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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: trout]
    #7754332 - 12/13/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was typing as you posted. There seems to be a fundamental failure somewhere that once corrected should make all the difference in the world. Lets start over with what you did in the first place and then go from there. Most likely sterile technique is the underlying cause next moisture levels or too little air exchange.
Trout


--------------------
I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!!

Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.


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OfflineTheMan420
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: trout]
    #7755838 - 12/13/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

By the way i have two books called the mushroom cultivator by Paul stamets and j.s. Chilton which was my fathers and he doesn't use it to much any more so its in my possession and another one i bought called Psilocybin mushroom handbook by L.G. Nicholas and Kerry Ogame which Ive used both.
I think it was the 50/50 casing because i didn't sterilize it as long as i should have and i did it in the microwave, also it was my first one-it seemed to me that the mycelium couldn't breath so after a week with the 50/50 and no signs of anything i scraped it away and laid fresh verm over it and misted it within 3 days it was colonized and ready to fruit so into the FC and suddenly it turned to a blue color which i suspected to be Penicillium. I PC my cakes for 45-60mins at 15psi, and use Lysol which kills 99.8% of bacteria and before this i clean everything with bleach and rinse throughly! the room there in is not dusty,dirty, but clean and white! I have perlite in the bottom of my FC which keeps the humidity at 87-99% and the temp is at 65-70F
And with the 5 pre-sterilized bags i haven't a clue because after a few days of injecting them with 2-3cc's they start to smell like dirty socks or rotten apples at the filter patch, and Ive used the same syringe for half pints and they seem to do fine?(3lb organic rye berries in autoclave bags with filter patches and a self injection healing spot)
like i said before the first time i did it exactly the way the book said and it worked in less sterile conditions but now I'm trying new things like the 50/50 casing and soon to be WBS.
What i think I'm going to do which is hard to say cause i have a lot of thoughts running through my mind is just work with what i got, and if i do decide to do the 50/50 casing ill can it and put it in the PC for an hour at 15psi. I do have three more pint jars which I'm kinda glad i saved my last syringe for maybe i can make a spore print and then more syringes? or easy enough to buy em? or what the hell how bout both?!


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Offlinewhereismymind
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: TheMan420]
    #7755930 - 12/13/07 09:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

sorry but you 're getting some of the points that we have told you  , wrong . We are not judging you with something , we are just saying if you were to face same results with more then 5 attempts maybe you got to reconsider everything that you are doing  . It is nothing personal , and from your post i'm thinking you're taking it personal , there are more factors like climate and your house etc ..  i want everyone to have their best grow :grin: nothing else
peace =)


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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: TheMan420]
    #7757487 - 12/14/07 08:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheMan420 said:
let me start by saying that it seems that trail and error has bought me to the conclusion that i need to make my own spawn as Ive tried using 5 pre-sterilized spawn bags from a good vendor with no luck!
So here we go again and i use 6 half pint BRF cakes and make a casing with them using a 50/50 and i get contams! I thought i was a natural cause the first time i did it i got loads from my casing it was like 86g fresh off the one flush!





Proves my point of why cakes should not be crumbled and cased, but just dunk and rolled
http://www.shroomery.org/9735/Should-I-crumble-and-case-my-cakes


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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: Nibin]
    #7757695 - 12/14/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So when you put your casing into the fc you said it turned blue was it fluffy or moldy looking or just blue bc damage to the myc can turn it blue just like a stem. If it didn't change texture except to get smoother or tight looking then it was most likely not contams. Your situation with the bag could be a bad batch of bags. Did you knock then up at the same time or on different occasions and did they all come together which could indicate the bad batch theory. Hard to say, but your idea to go forward with what has worked and then experiment with more is a good idea. It is a lot easier to deal with a problem when you have some success already and especially if you have some excess sittin around so be patient and keep tryin.
Trout


--------------------
I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!!

Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.


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OfflineTheMan420
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: trout]
    #7759167 - 12/14/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not taken nothing personal, i know its a game of trail and error i will alway do my best to keep it as sterile as possible!

And i do know for a fact that it was a contam cuze it was all white and than i did drop a fan on it when i was fanning, i thought it was just a bruising effect but when i came home for work my entire casing was like a dark blue plus every thing underneath, no saving it! it almost looked like it grew in the middle of the MYC causing it to rot and turn a bluy green color!... i know have one of my pint jars contam with it looks like the same thing! i was thinking of using the parts that weren't contained to inoculated sum WBS would this work? i need a quick response cuz i dont want to fuck something else up again!

Also in regards to the pre-sterilized bags i got 4 at once and injected using a B+ syringe i made myself so i thought this mite be the problem, so i ordered new syringes and new grow bags and the same thing happened.. so i mite just stick with me doing my own bags or subs--that way i know its done right and i dont spend as much in the cost! thanks for the help so far but we need to keep pushing so i do get shrooms! should i clean the room again and get a new sort of disinfectants?


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OfflineTheMan420
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Re: a beginner trying to do something with nothing [Re: TheMan420]
    #7768076 - 12/17/07 12:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

a lil update on what i did with that pint jar that had a contam in it, haha i just opened the jar and cut a big chunk out of it propblay the stupid newb thing to do but what can i say. lets see what happens to this one.
on my next experiment I'm planning on buying some micropore tape and using that to cover the holes and than cover as usual with foil, a lil added protection. but I'm wandering if i should do it before or after pc'ing? it makes no sense(to me) in putting a hole from the needle in the tape and than covering it with foil, why not do it after injection? type using star gazers anybody tried these before?


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