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bhamlaxy
Shroomerite


Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 714
Loc: Nevada
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Safety of the Shroomery
#7751895 - 12/12/07 11:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did a search, and most of the stuff was about technical proxies and cookies etc.
A lot of the grow logs and questions about growing refer to "a friend of a friend", "someone who isn't me", or even "my cat" as to the one who is growing the mushrooms and has a question about it.
Is this completely necessary? Because my...uh.. "friend" wants to grow mushrooms and post grow logs and such, but is wondering if he truly has to refer to other people at all times. Has anyone been busted because of what they posted, or have posts been used as evidence before? And will referring to a friend eliminate any possibility of posts being used against you?
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: bhamlaxy]
#7752068 - 12/12/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cursory disclaimers mean nothing. If you consistantly refer to the grow as your friends, and post the pictures, this could perhaps help in court, but I seriously doubt a judge will deny a search warrant just cuz you refer to the grow as your friends- this will likely still be probable cause. Now if you get searched and the online information is the only thing they have, then yeah, this may help, but in this case you probably woulnd't be charged anyways due to lack of evidence (unless your dumb ass admits to it)
That said, I'm not aware if the shroomery has ever been either subpoenaed or served with a warrant or approached with a request for cooperation.
What I would like to know is in regards to their IP logging. The privacy policy of this site makes no promises, and Ythan made a comment implying that this site retains the IP address you initially register with and login with when you first sign up. Since proxies are apparently blocked when you first register, this would lead me to believe that even if you start using a proxy now, this website will still be in possesion of your IP address from when you first started using the site.
So if they were compelled to disclose your information, they would have your IP from when you registered, which may lead to you depending on your situation. It would be nice if an admin would comment on this, as I don't particularly care for it. With users that don't start shit that would make them a disciplinary problem, it seems unnecessary to retain IP information for the purposes of later spotting puppets- but they can do what they want.
That said, I'd be surprised if this site was ever compeled to disclose any of their records, but maybe somebody will answer this question if they stop by.
I guess the other issue is that I presume most proxies retain IP records as well, so even with a proxy, it is possible to identify your internet connection through the proxy's records, presuming they either cooperate or are subject to legal process without great difficulty (i.e. other country).
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bhamlaxy
Shroomerite


Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 714
Loc: Nevada
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: johnm214]
#7752108 - 12/13/07 12:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the answers, and I'm hoping to get some more. I guess my main fear is whether or not posts can be used to obtain a warrant, just based off of a post, and whether or not simply posting "a friend of a friend" or whatever can completely eliminate that risk. I really want to share my experience with the community, but wouldn't want to risk everything for it.
The stuff about IP addresses is a little scary. Luckily, I first registered at a location a few hundred miles away, so I'm guessing a furious phone call from my parents would give me the time necessary to get rid of anything.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: bhamlaxy]
#7752145 - 12/13/07 12:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well I'm positive a post could be used to obtain a warrant, but would they?
1. It would have to be an agency that's interested. This would either be the DEA if you're in america, or some smaller agency w/ jurisdiction over you. How do they become interested? They don't have jurisdiction over the entire world...
So you'd have to give reason for them to believe you live within their jurisdiction anyways, before they care to investigate. I really doubt the DEA cares much about these things unless they fall into their lap, and the state police are likely not trolling these boards for people to reveal their location. But worse case scenario, sure they could obtain a warrant.
2. If you were prosecuted based on what you posted here, without disclosing your address or other information concerning your identity, it would be a first to my knowledge. The people I've heard about clearly posted that they were growing something, that they lived in such and such area, and then disclosed their name or address. The cops didn't need to subpoena anyone.
Others will likely weigh in, but I think its very unlikely anyone will care, but they surely could obtain a warrant if you fed them the information.
You remain far more likely to be busted for telling the wrong person, having an emergency in your house, or getting searched in your car.
I'd go with the story that it is my friends grow, and you wanted to share his experience, but that's just me. If someone was interested in you, that wouldn't stop them from obtaining a warrant, most likely, but it wouldn't hurt and couldn't be construed as an admission per se.
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Ythan
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ



Registered: 08/08/97
Posts: 18,774
Loc: NY/MA/VT Borderlands
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: johnm214]
#7780369 - 12/20/07 03:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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We do retain your IP address when you sign up or make a post. However, proxies are not blocked during registration. We only do a proxy check for users with under 50 posts who try and post in the community forums. That's to discourage malicious puppets while allowing for grow puppets. You can use a proxy or TOR to register an account and post in the cultivation forums without ever encountering a problem.
We've been online over 10 years and we've never been served with a warrant or anything like that, and I've never heard about a post on this site being used in an investigation or leading to a bust. *knock on wood* But that's no reason to get complacent and I do encourage people to go the anonymous grow puppet route if they're concerned about security. xB Browser is a pretty good option but it's kind of slow. The SwitchProxy extension for Firefox is good if you have your own proxy list.
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Nebula
Stranger

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 172
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: Ythan]
#7780473 - 12/20/07 05:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ythan said: We do retain your IP address when you sign up or make a post.
Your IP-address being logged - it's the only thing I seriously worry about when posting on forums such as the shroomery. Many ppl use a fixed ip-address, and once the pigs got your address it's not difficult anymore to identify you positively. So I wonder - why do log IP-addresses anyway? For example, I don't think there is any meaningful use if one is using TOR because the IP-addresses provided by TOR are changed frequently. But even if it's useful, then couldn't you encrypt it? This makes sense if you are not obliged to provide a decryption key to the pigs (I do not know the US-law regarding this) I'd appreciate if the shroomery admins could shed a light on this.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: Ythan]
#7780574 - 12/20/07 06:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks Ythan, for stopping by.
I agree w/ Nebula, in that the IP logging from registration is annoying and troublesome. I understand the puppet spotting purpose, but perhaps consider an option to delete this information for supporters?
I realize supporters get banned and cause trouble too, but the extra cash could perhaps make up for any extra administrative work as a result of discarding the IP data.
And as for the prosecutions based on online statements, I should qualify that I've not heard of these with this site, but rather w/ myspace and similar sites.
---
and as for nebulas question, whether the IP data is encrypted or not is irrelevant, as the administrators can still be compelled to disclose it- there is no affective privledge for this information.
So encryption would only help if the site's admins were willing to endure a contempt sanction for refusing to decrypt it themselves, which I wouldn't expect.
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: johnm214]
#7784667 - 12/21/07 06:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Cursory disclaimers mean nothing. If you consistantly refer to the grow as your friends, and post the pictures, this could perhaps help in court, but I seriously doubt a judge will deny a search warrant just cuz you refer to the grow as your friends- this will likely still be probable cause. Now if you get searched and the online information is the only thing they have, then yeah, this may help, but in this case you probably woulnd't be charged anyways due to lack of evidence (unless your dumb ass admits to it)
That said, I'm not aware if the shroomery has ever been either subpoenaed or served with a warrant or approached with a request for cooperation.
What you just said in that first paragraph, I think, is the reason that it IS NOT safe to say "Hey, I'm growing tons of shrooms and here are pictures." Reason being: say you grow, post a log with pics, and then stop...
A year later, you have nothing, but the cops link your SN to your actual identity, and get a warrant. They find nothing... but they do have a full confession of illegal activity, with pictures.
Maybe that would hold up in court and screw you, maybe it wouldn't. I'd rather not take chances.
And as to the next statement... even if the shroomery has never been approached with a request for cooperation... this does not mean that it couldn't happen at some point in the future.
Why not be cautious, just in case? If you're careful and nothing happens, I doubt you'll regret being careful. If you're careless and something does happen, that you will regret.
That's how I look at it, at least.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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Nebula
Stranger

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 172
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Quote:
CidneyIndole said:What you just said in that first paragraph, I think, is the reason that it IS NOT safe to say "Hey, I'm growing tons of shrooms and here are pictures." Reason being: say you grow, post a log with pics, and then stop...
A year later, you have nothing, but the cops link your SN to your actual identity, and get a warrant. They find nothing... but they do have a full confession of illegal activity, with pictures.
I think you're already seriously fucked up if the cops managed to identify you. That's why it's so important they never get to know your ip-address. Furthermore, you say you should never say you're growing..yes, that's safer, but in that case they better close the forums mushroom Cultivation etc. because that's why most posters are visiting the shroomery, aren't they?
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: Nebula]
#7786126 - 12/21/07 04:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Nebula said:
Quote:
CidneyIndole said:What you just said in that first paragraph, I think, is the reason that it IS NOT safe to say "Hey, I'm growing tons of shrooms and here are pictures." Reason being: say you grow, post a log with pics, and then stop...
A year later, you have nothing, but the cops link your SN to your actual identity, and get a warrant. They find nothing... but they do have a full confession of illegal activity, with pictures.
I think you're already seriously fucked up if the cops managed to identify you. That's why it's so important they never get to know your ip-address. Furthermore, you say you should never say you're growing..yes, that's safer, but in that case they better close the forums mushroom Cultivation etc. because that's why most posters are visiting the shroomery, aren't they?
No, you misinterpret what I was saying. "A guy I know wanted me to post some pictures of his setup, so he could get your opinion." Or "Someone I know has 12 jars of rye inoculated with BHT, and he wanted me to ask a question...."
Chances are, if LEO is looking at something like that, then they KNOW you're full of shit, and there is no AFOAF or SWIM, etc. However, as feeble as the subterfuge may be, it is NOT a direct confession, neatly wrapped up for them with a bow on top.
You might be able to argue in a court that pictures were given to you by someone you met, and that you really couldn't even confirm that it was a P. Cubensis grow-op... that you were just repeating what they said. (Golly, your honor... I'm not a mycologist, and I can't visually distinguish one species from another...)
Or you say that you got the info anonymously from someone who wanted you to post about their setup, had a question, etc.
It may be OBVIOUS bullshit... but if all the evidence they have against you is a post in a cultivation forum, where you clearly state that this is not your cultivation setup... then their case is about as weak as your lie.
If you say "Yeah, I just harvested so many pounds of fresh Golden Teacher from my martha setup," and post pictures... that is a confession.
Maybe you're careful. Maybe they won't be able to track you down and connect you to your screen name. Maybe LEO has never even looked at the shroomery as a potential pool of evidence.
And maybe you're wrong.
Tell me--what is the point of even taking that chance? To save yourself from typing "AFOAF" instead of "I?"
No thanks. I like my freedom.
I'm not saying the cultivation forum is a bad idea. I think it's a great idea. I'm just saying that it's better to not directly admit to ANYTHING that is a criminal offense.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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PoisonedV
Fuming Shrooming




Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Take a look at my sig. bud.
-------------------- Lazy...
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: Safety of the Shroomery [Re: PoisonedV]
#7788091 - 12/22/07 05:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PoisonedV said: Take a look at my sig. bud.
It's not really a loophole, though.
If you were to think "Okay, if I say it's SWIM growing these shrooms, they can't get a warrant to investigate," then that would be putting your hopes in a "loophole." It would also be poor logic, and quite probably false-confidence.
I'm merely suggesting that people shouldn't gift-wrap an online confession for anyone to read.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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pretty much all I'm saying is that provided leo is interested in you, using "I" or "swim" as opposed to "my friend" will likely be of little relevance to the liklihood of a warrant being issued.
But after you are raided, if there is no evidence recovered, the fact you said "my friend" may halp make the statements less important, but, if you are activley seeking advice for the grow, and not just sharing pics, you'll likely be charged as if you were actually growing, even if you were not, or as a conspirator.
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