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InvisibleDoomhammer
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Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light * 1
    #7751446 - 12/12/07 10:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I was just reading some posts saying the best light is in the 5000 - 7000 degree K range, but was wondering why, so I decided to find out. I know I always appreciate when reasons for things are explained to me, so I figured I would explain what I learned.

For Psilocybe cubensis, "more pinheads are initiated upon exposure to blue and ultra-violet light with distinct peaks at 370, 440, and 460 nanometers. . . light having wavelengths greater than 510 nanometers were ineffective" (Stamets, The Mushroom Cultivator, p. 147, discussing Badham's master's thesis).

There is an inverse relationship between color temp and wavelength:
lambda Max = b / T
where
lambda Max = is the peak wavelength in meters,
T = the temperature of your light in kelvins (K), and
b = a constant of proportionality, called Wien's displacement constant and equals 2.897 768 5(51) × 10–3 m K (2002 CODATA recommended value)
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien's_displacement_law

So if you plug in the above wavelengths into your formula you get your optimum color temperatures, which are
370 nm = 7831 degrees K
440 nm = 6585 degrees K
460 nm = 6300 degree K

Also if your peak wavelengths were greater than 510 nm, this would be 5682 degrees K. If the color temp is lower than this according to Stamets and his buddy Badham your light will be less effective at initiating pinheads than other light sources.

Here is a chart showing the color temp of various sources:


So it looks like nature wins out once again, with fluorescent and your computer monitor tied for second!


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Edited by Doomhammer (12/13/07 08:50 PM)


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Offlinewhereismymind
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: Doomhammer]
    #7751482 - 12/12/07 10:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

wowif the calculations are true . this is an important thing . thanks to your effort :thumbup:


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InvisibleDoomhammer
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: whereismymind]
    #7755552 - 12/13/07 08:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

to clarify what i said earlier, whatever light source you have is not a single wavelength but a spectrum of wavelengths. Even if the peak is greater than 510 nanometers it still may work, just maybe not as much as if the peak wavelength were lower.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: Doomhammer]
    #7755772 - 12/13/07 09:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Correct. I've seen pins form from much redder light, but the pinsets and yields were no where near as good as when a high frequency light is used.
RR


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InvisibleDoomhammer
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7788909 - 12/22/07 01:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I decided to take this work a step further (I guess I'm obsessed) and decided to share. In summary, if you believe the work done by Badham described by Stamets is correct, you should really have 3 lights with peak wavelengths of 370, 440, and 460 nm to optimize pinhead formation. Or just use natural light.

I came to this conclusion after looking at the spectral distribution plots of compact fluorescent bulbs. These plots show the light intensity as a function of wavelength. GE publishes them for their lights, the website is here: http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/education_resources/learn_about_light/distribution_curves.htm
I also posted some SPD's below. Look at the SPD's for Outdoor daylight, incandescent, and a CFL light such as 'Daylight (D)'. On the CFL's, note the very specific line spectra.

I bought a GE 'Daylight 6500K' 100 W equivalent. http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=CONSUMERSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=89095&TABID=2&BreadCrumbValues=&ModelSelectionFilter=FT0001:Energy%20Smart%C3%A2%C2%84%C2%A2^FT0007:Daylight
If you print the SPD for this light on the first link I showed you, then you will see that the highest intensity is between about 430-440 nm. This is great because 440 nm is 1 of the 3 best wavelengths to expose your PC mycelium to. (Although I notice the Chroma 75 lights are even better for this wavelength)

But what about 370 and 460 nm? Going back to the SPD, you see there is NO OUTPUT AT ALL at 370 nm. I found that certain blacklights should be able to cover this spectrum, probably fluorescent black lights. This is because black lights have their peak in the UVA spectrum, which runs from 320-400 nm. I got that information from here: http://www.yesinc.com/products/data/uvb1/index.html
(also I saw similar results on a google search). If anybody finds a suitable black light with a peak wavelength of around 370nm please post it here. The GE Plant and Aquarium lights look like they have at least SOME output at this wavelength.

Last is 460 nm. On the plot, you can see there is definitely output at this wavelength, but it looks like it's about half the intensity of the 440 nm light. I haven't been able to find any lights with a peak wavelength here. If you find any please post.

Your other option would be to boost your overall intensity by buying a more powerful lamp or moving it closer to the mycelium. The main problem I see with this is you are also boosting the heat output which could cause problems for you in other areas like increased evaporation.

Anyhoo I hope someone finds this helpful.


SPD for Daylight 6500K by GE


Natural outdoor daylight from the sun


Incandescent lighting. See why it doesn't work for us?


The GE plant and aquarium lights.


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InvisibleKindVegiBurrito
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: Doomhammer]
    #9425007 - 12/13/08 04:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)



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InvisibleKindVegiBurrito
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: Doomhammer]
    #9425153 - 12/13/08 05:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So, if you had your choice between a 420nm bulb and a 460nm bulb, which would be better? The site I'm at right now doesn't have a 440nm actinic.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: KindVegiBurrito]
    #9425182 - 12/13/08 05:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

One thing we do know is if you'll use lights with a color temp of 6,500 Kelvin, you'll have a wall to wall pinset, providing you've also got your other fruiting parameters in order.  I'm not sure we can get better than that, but it never hurts to try. 

We don't want to worry too much about light, which is a secondary pinning trigger until we have constant fresh air, high humidity, and a fully colonized substrate.  Thanks for the charts.  Interesting stuff.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleKindVegiBurrito
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9425297 - 12/13/08 05:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yeh, all other pinning triggers will be in effect: fully colonized cakes in a clear large chamber with perlite or LECA, water/h2o2 mix an inch or so from top of perlite/LECA layer, air pump with wands for FAE...all in a 73 degree F. temp room. The room is dark though, no natural light, so will need some kind of lighting system. What do you think of these actinic blue bulbs?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3733+13821


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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: KindVegiBurrito]
    #9425973 - 12/13/08 07:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Air pumps are a horrible way to get rapidly changing, constantly turbulent fresh air exchange, and standing water in the perlite makes any perlite under the water line worthless.  If you want good air exchange and high  humidity, I'd suggest a shotgun terrarium.  Remember, fresh air is the number 1 pinning trigger.  Far more important than light.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Offlinewisco
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9426025 - 12/13/08 07:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That sucks I'm using an air pump. Why are they so horrible?


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Invisiblenw_shroomy
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9426047 - 12/13/08 07:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

RR,I use the PmP method and have been in several arguments with ppl over the use of this FC.Is there any reason that you dint recommend it besides a fish tank pump?.I always try to point out that the shotgun Also works for growing Mushrooms.can I get your opinion on the PmP as Ive had nothing but great results when it comes to cakes.I value your advise and follow you teks.
BTW I want to say that without your BRF video I wouldn't know how to grow mushrooms so easy..Thank you


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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7803673#7803673
I only grow edibles.Any info I give ONLY applies to gourmet mushrooms.


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: nw_shroomy]
    #9426058 - 12/13/08 07:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I also use a PmP with cakes and small trays and have great success..


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Offlinewisco
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: Damion5050]
    #9426073 - 12/13/08 07:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Pardon my ignorance, but what is PmP?


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InvisibleKindVegiBurrito
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: nw_shroomy]
    #9426084 - 12/13/08 07:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, RR, thank you for your videos! In terms of the aquarium air pump+bubble wand+LECA tek I'm trying it because it seems many people have had much success with it for FAE. I know your shotgun tek well, but wanted to try this tek with the epic thread :smile:. I know THIS thread was originally about wavelength light, so let's say we all agree about a FC Tek and appropriate parameters...what are your thoughts on light, specifically actinic bulbs either in the 420nm range or 460nm range? And don't say 420nm just because it's 420, haha.

Thanks for your thoughts RR, or anyone else for that matter.


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Invisiblenw_shroomy
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: wisco]
    #9426085 - 12/13/08 07:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wisco said:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is PmP?



lol
http://www.shroomery.org/9047/Poor-Mans-Pod


--------------------
Spawn Ratio Calculator
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7803673#7803673
I only grow edibles.Any info I give ONLY applies to gourmet mushrooms.


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: nw_shroomy]
    #9426086 - 12/13/08 07:55 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nw_shroomy said:
Quote:

wisco said:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is PmP?



lol
http://www.shroomery.org/9047/Poor-Mans-Pod




:thumbup:


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Offlinewisco
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: Damion5050]
    #9426135 - 12/13/08 08:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I see, I made my FC using the semi automated terrarium set up that I found on this site.


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Invisiblenw_shroomy
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: wisco]
    #9426168 - 12/13/08 08:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

they all are simi automation...you still should fan and mist...My next grow im doing the shotgun Fc...If it works better Im sticking to it...im still going to do bulk but with edibles.. mono tub.....Exsept Im liking boris setup.might go that way.Its easy.


--------------------
Spawn Ratio Calculator
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7803673#7803673
I only grow edibles.Any info I give ONLY applies to gourmet mushrooms.


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Offlinewisco
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Re: Relationship between color temperature, wavelength, and CF light [Re: nw_shroomy]
    #9426205 - 12/13/08 08:21 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I have been fanning and misting religously! Next time I'm gonna go shotgun too!


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