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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
#7765220 - 12/16/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Middleman was the one making the claim in this instance and then telling others to do his homework for him (as usual).
However, even if skeptics debunked every instance of crop circles and psychic healers they came across, they could still not say they have proven their point, because there will always be more instances in the future. This has been done countless times in the past.
On the other hand, all true believers have to do is prove in one instance that one of these phenomena are based on reality and not delusion. Even with this tiny burden of proof, they have still failed to provide anything substantive.
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mushbaby
woodswalker




Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2,645
Loc: in my own lil world
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Seuss]
#7766271 - 12/16/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I had a dream that came true. I told it to someone before it happened. After it happened they confirmed that they remember me telling them about it. He told many others about it until he passed.
Maybe if I had known in advance that that dream was going to come true I could have published it to have physical proof that I had dreamed it. Unfortunately at the time I thought it was just a dream, so I can't prove it to your satisfaction.
Doesn't mean I didn't have the dream tho.
Maybe some people out there know when they will have their visions. Kudos to them. For me unfortunately this gift is very erratic. 
Orgone I will look up the details on the visualizations for cancer patients. It really won't be that hard to find, just understand I need a couple of days, one of my boys is sick and I can't spend much time on here.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: mushbaby]
#7766331 - 12/16/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Does visualization only work for extreme maladies or for common illness as well?
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7767575 - 12/16/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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There are two problems: 1) Labels, 2) Fear. Transcend both, and the conflict falls away.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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More like fact vs. fiction. Fear is not an issue from the empiricist's standpoint.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: More like fact vs. fiction.
WARNING: True believer syndrome. Someone thinks they actually know the objective truth.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
#7767821 - 12/16/07 10:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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*sigh*
As I have stated over and over again, my record on alleged paranormal claims WHICH CAN BE TESTED is 100% and has been for decades. That is hard to top, while believer's claims on subjects WHICH CAN BE TESTED is 0%. How much more lopsided can it get?
My certainty is such that I am willing to wager a large chunk of hard-earned cash to back up my stance. EVERY SINGLE MYSTIC HEAD (hundreds to date) has either backed down or reniged on such a wager.
A while back a crop circle was filmed from start to finish as it was made by college students overnight. Three famous cereologists were shown the circle and asked if it were 'genuine' (meaning NOT man-made). All three did radaition tests and checked the plant stems for bent not broken nodes and whatever else they do.
All three declared the circle to be genuine. When shown the film of the circle being made, two of the cereologists STILL declared the circle to be 'genuine'.
That, my friend, is True Believer Syndrome.
I have begged people here for years to show me the error of my empiricist ways JUST ONCE on hundreds of subjects. Hasn't happened yet.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Don't you see that your point of view is the same as a "mystic heads"???
YOU BOTH BELIEVE.
THE BEST STANDPOINT IS TO NEVER FULLY BELIEVE ANYTHING. YOU JUST MAKE A BEST GUESS BASED ON THE WEIGHT OF AVAILABLE EVIDENCE.
You seem to claim that the weight of evidence here proves its likely that all mystical stuff is bollocks. As I said before how can you lump a huge range of phenomena into one category. You have to take every instance individually. You cannot deny new possibility based on the belief that similar old possibility was false - especially when those beliefs can be no-where near certain.
If you do, then this becomes your fundamental flaw. Imagine we assumed Einstein to be 100% correct in all his theories. How would we ever discover a new theory? Einstein found some patterns that fit what we see, that doesn't mean he's found the complete picture. We have to be prepared to alter/discard the theories if we discover new evidence.
Government: We admit that we are in contact with extra-terrestrials OC: Yeah but i believe the Phoenix lights were flares so these ET's must be fake too
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ego Death]
#7768369 - 12/17/07 06:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Let me make this simple: Every single 'paranormal' thing I have investigated in 40 years has turned out to be bollocks. Billions of people making billions of paranormal claims and NOT ONE, not ONE - has yet to pan out under serious scrutiny.
That is all it would take. Just one UNAMBIGUOUS event.
Do the math.
Some of Einsteins' theories held up under SERIOUS SCRUTINY and became accepted and some didn't and were rejected. Simple. No dance-around, no word games, no excuses, no blaming of evil skeptics' mind power and so on.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ego Death]
#7768381 - 12/17/07 06:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
You seem to claim that the weight of evidence here proves its likely that all mystical stuff is bollocks.
If sky is full of dark clouds and the wind is blowing, most chances are that it will rain soon. You want get out of the house. What do you do? Will you take an umbrella or not? If you weren't to draw a similarity, you wouldn't take an umbrella. Maybe the clouds would be taken away by the wind and rain wouldn't start. But when we get all those meteorological signs, it usually rains. We live on predictions. This doesn't come in contradiction with keeping an open mind for all the possibilities. It's pretty close minded to think that in order to keep an open mind you have to stop making comparisons and finding points of reference. Facts, live, has proves that we can live more efficiently and in accordance to what's real when we use those predictions. Until now there's no real evidence that extra terrestrials are visiting our planet and it would be erroneous to think that they do. We're left in doubt but this doesn't stop us to determine what's more likely, from the data that we have.
Quote:
Government: We admit that we are in contact with extra-terrestrials
Government: We want to help everybody live a free and happy life. We want to expand people's consciousness. Extraterrestrial hunter: I believe you only if you admit that E.T.'s are visiting earth.  To make it easier for you: why would you believe the govt if they were to tell you that? I'd say what I'm telling you right now: where's the fucking evidence?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Considering the mass of events that can be said only to be UNEXPLAINED, how do you suddenly decide that they are ALL bollocks?
I actually agree with you that a large amount of paranormal claims are misguided or false but I disagree with applying this philosophy to all paranormal claims especially things that have a huge wealth of unexplained phenomena such as ghosts and UFOs.
If every single thing you have investigated has turned out to be bollocks then why don't you try investigating some of the largest unexplained cases that even the worlds top scientists and researchers have still deemed unexplainable??? Somehow you have mightily beaten (with your individual research) the research of groups of accredited people?
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7768730 - 12/17/07 09:59 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wheres the evidence they are not?
I stand in the middle, but I can point you towards information which to me suggests they are.
You cloud theory, great how simplistic but completely misses the point that its entirely possible that it will not rain despite indications.
As it happens with the alien/ufo indications are that they are real. Your lack of research is your only downfall. You are ill equipped to argue with me when I have researched this phenomena so thoroughly.
Start here: http://ufos.about.com/od/aliensalienabduction/a/bestabductions.htm
Then continue your research with NASA evidence Radar evidence The disclosure project
Then come back and tell me how there is no HUGE WEIGHT of evidence on the side suggesting ET is visiting Earth.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7768757 - 12/17/07 10:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you aware that 2 of the governments own top researchers (Hynek and Pope) didn't believe the phenomena was real when they first took the jobs because of the undeniable evidence in certain cases they are now certain something is happening, why should I take you opinion over the experts?
Take the Randelsham forest incident for example, can you explain why the British military would hoax such an incident? Evidence actually suggests they tried to keep it quiet.
Take Belgium Mass sighting - did the 2 F-16 intercepting pilots lie? Did the 2 radar that com firmed maneuverability far beyond human technology lie? Did half the city that made hundreds of films and photographs all hoax them in one huge conspiracy?
LOL, its more insane to say that nothing is happening that to say it is. That is for certain. The only problem here is people making assertions about things they actually know nothing about.
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Please, leave Eisntein out of this. He was one of the greatest "believers" of all time.
It was he who said "Imagination is everything, it is the preview to lifes coming attractions!"
He is also quoted as saying something like "There are two types of people in the world, those who believe that everything is a miracle, and those who believe nothing to be a miracle."
I wonder which one stein was?
The claim that not a single claim based on the paranormal has not stood up to scrutiny out of BILLIONS is the biggest lie I have ever heard and is simply disturbing.
The greatest paranormal claims have always stood on their own and were never able to be chopped down by skeptics. Ever. Instead, they leave it alone, and move on to the next debunkable claim.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7769121 - 12/17/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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OC..
&NR=1
This is the infamous crop circle formation infamous video. If you manage to disprove this video by ULTIMATELY and CERTAINLY proving that it is a 100% hoax, then hats off to you.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7769253 - 12/17/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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All he will say is that, that does not matter because there are other cases where people have owned up to doing it with a steak, string and wood.
Both sides are flawed if they are going to categorize the entire phenomena. Generalizations are not logical or scientific.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7769307 - 12/17/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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That video is a bad choice though lol.
I'm not gonna lie to try and further my point. I do my research.
That crop circle video is believed to be fake...
Quote:
[On his webpage (http://rainbow.medberry.com/enigma/Artcl11_2.html) Paul Vigay, writing about the OCV, mentions various additional reasons for believing that it was faked. Not the least of which is that the camera was set up pointing directly at the cropfield where the "Snowflake" formation would appear, conveniently filling the field of view of the camera thus focussed. Now, isn't that an amazing coincidence? The formation unfolds on the video in just a few seconds. Interestingly the straight pathways are seen to form last, despite the fact that it could be clearly seen on the ground at the time that these pathways were underneath the lay of the crop in the satellite circles and must have been laid down earlier. How does any advocate of the film being genuine explain this ?/quote]
http://www.fsr.org.uk/fsrwng19.htm
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ego Death]
#7769354 - 12/17/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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There is not *evidence* that ultimately proves that video to be a hoax. That's my point. So it may be plausible, at the same time that it may not be. Either way, both sides must be considered.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: mushbaby]
#7771025 - 12/17/07 07:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Visualization has been used numerous times with cancer patients with recorded results.
I'm curious. Are there any visualizations for amputees that will restore the missing limb?
I mean, if visualization can cure cancer and such, it should also cure amputations, no?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
#7771040 - 12/17/07 07:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Or we could start with something simpler like baldness, though I have been informed by a person with a direct link to the mind of God that that would be too small of a miracle.
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