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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate



Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 3 days, 18 hours
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7754050 - 12/13/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cool. I dig that.
I just can't see the line they are trying to push. They are all trying to push questions and answers from all directions and don't get anywhere.
Where would one be trying to get? A static concept of reality?
Speaking from personal experience, many of my moments of greatest clarity have been sparked by the words of P&S posters, including words of seeming antagonism toward or even dismissal of the ideas I put forth.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7754059 - 12/13/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Shows what you know then?
Healing is very real.
You don't get 'ripped off' if the results you paid for are achieved.
I don't think the mechanism is mystical healing waves. I think the mechanism is the human mind. Healers can activate that mechanism.
So science can claim a method to be bullshit because it actuality the mechanism is different? That is narrow minded. Healing works. You can call it placebo, you can call it whatever.
Are you aware that common headache tablets (aspirin, paracetamol) do not have a better rate of success than placebo?
People with your line of logic completely disregard it as 'ripped off' despite the factor of success, now that is idiotic.
Of course science wants. It wants to prove thing within test conditions, that what science does. It sets out to prove or disprove but within limited conditions. My only problem with that is that there is a clear flaw in procedure here because you cannot test what cannot be tested. Does that mean its not real? To some, apparently so...
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7754085 - 12/13/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you're missing the point. People don't necessarily make up UFO stories on purpose(though some obviously do). The fact is, however, that people will see things that they can't quite identify, and then fill in the blank as to what they saw. I once thought I saw a UFO, but it turned out to be Venus. Several UFO sightings can be readily explained. Others simply remain unidentified. It seems like a cop-out to say that because we can't identify it that it therefore must be an alien spaceship.
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7754104 - 12/13/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: Science doesn't "want" anything. 
I disagree.
At its heart, the scientific process is human, even if it is a systematic. The human element of the scientific process debunks purely and inarguably for the sake of progress. As long as life drives the system, it wills it.
Further, science is at most a study of function. We do not understand at all what something is, outside of how it acts and reacts. So in other words, although science can understand certain aspects of the nature of substance, we will never in this reality know the substance of nature.
I personally think the major flaw of modernism is that we construct our reality through science as if it is in itself substancial, allowing these technologies to define us.
Creative usage of colors eh?
Edited by daytripper23 (12/13/07 03:07 PM)
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7754105 - 12/13/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: Yes, it is HIGHLY impossible that we are alone in this Universe, and I don't think that anyone has made that statement that E.T.s don't exist. What we argue about is them visiting our planet.  Can you note the difference?
If they exist, which they do, then why do you refuse to look at reasons as to why they may be here. How is it possible? What do they want? Look into it.
If we KNOW they have been visiting us, then you want to ask as to proof as to WHAT they are doing.. then research! Look into EXOPOLITICS, read some abduction reports, read what is reporter, look at pictures, LOOK UP AT THE FUCKIN SKIES! There is proof that they are visiting us! If you think about why the reasns will flood in! It makes MORE sense for them to be here, as opposed to the other way around. If you can become intune with the vibrations of the universe you would understant.
Understand energy, the ability to move faster then light, the unlimited possibilities that the mind is capable of. Group minds that have existed before humans that have had much more time to really use their minds and develop technology to be here. The universe is an estimated 14 billion years. So we think of possibilities. We are an estimated 10,000 years old. Hmm.. so.. if we DONT argue that ETs exist (I think we all can accept that they do) wouldn't it be very much plausible that they have advance to a degree far greater than we could imagine. And that their idea of "home" goes beyond a planet. Ther is a universal ecology that exists. It's not just about planets. It's not just about our planet and the sun. It's about the entire universe and the thing called LIFE that lives inside of it.
It's about a more advanced conciousness.
There is much literature.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7754131 - 12/13/07 03:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
If we KNOW they have been visiting us
And there's the catch: we don't know. We don't have any fingerprints, DNA(or whatever genetic code they have), or any solid evidence other than reports from people claiming to have seen them. I don't discount the possibility that they're visiting us, but we certainly don't KNOW that to be the case.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ego Death]
#7754156 - 12/13/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Healing is very real.
Yeah, so where's the evidence?
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You don't get 'ripped off' if the results you paid for are achieved.
So how come that no healer can show that they actually healed somebody?
But there are evidence and stories about people who contacted healers and they health condition kept getting worse and eventually died.
Quote:
Are you aware that common headache tablets (aspirin, paracetamol) do not have a better rate of success than placebo?
Source?  And yes, while in some cases (like headaches ), self suggestion works, tel me how does it work for AIDS? Or cancer? Or heart conditions, strokes and so on? Why isn't there any healer to show that they can actually heap someone?  How easy do I have to make it for you, so you can comprehend? 
Quote:
People with your line of logic completely disregard it as 'ripped off' despite the factor of success, now that is idiotic.
No, what is idiotic is to keep going on & on talking about the factor of success and have nothing to back it up.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
#7754182 - 12/13/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: I think you're missing the point. People don't necessarily make up UFO stories on purpose(though some obviously do). The fact is, however, that people will see things that they can't quite identify, and then fill in the blank as to what they saw. I once thought I saw a UFO, but it turned out to be Venus. Several UFO sightings can be readily explained. Others simply remain unidentified. It seems like a cop-out to say that because we can't identify it that it therefore must be an alien spaceship.
No I am not missing the point. I understand what you're saying.
ALL UFOS are unidentified, hence the abbv. I'm not going to sit here and tell you, I SAW A LIGHT IN THE SKY IT WAS AN ALIEN!
No, I will say to you there are UFOs in the sky.. SOMETHING IS GOING ON!! Lets try to see how much we can find out!
Why do you have doctors who speak of the subject so intensely? What's up with all the whistle-blowers and the song they're singing? Wow.. they must be so tired and bored.. lets just pretend like what they are saying is nonsense and we shouldn't think about the implications of their song.
So because normal folk see UFOs in the sky, they shouldnt assume that it could be aliens? What if there are reports on abduction, reports of contact, sketchy power structures within the governments, the things that governments do, the distractions that exist, the patters we are not aware of? A simple and natural understanding of thyneself, energy, life, and the universe is enough reason to believe that they are here, on this planet, and they actualy know more about us than we do them.
Now stop looking for proof of their visitation and look for reasons as to WHY they are visiting us.
Thats when thing really start coming together so it is highly recommended!
I have gotten several of my friends into the subject. I'd say most people are just scared to look into the subject.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7754197 - 12/13/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ohhh, Jesus on ice skates.
Yeah, I read tones of abduction files, I looked at the fucking skies, I saw "UFO's" and I have TONES of imagination to fuckin think about speeds faster than light & stuff. In fact it's pretty cool to let my imagination go on and on about stuff like this.
WHAT does it have to do with reality, is the question. I am not totally excluding the possibility that E.T.s might be visiting our planet, examining us or whatever. It possible, but there are OTHER, more possible possibilities than that. It is far more possible that those UFOs are human made, than it is possible for them to be from somewhere outside of this planet. And since you took the liberty in suggesting me some readings, I'll suggest you some too: http://exploringdata.cqu.edu.au/probabil.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7754206 - 12/13/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Why isn't there any healer to show that they can actually heap someone? 
Well because the healer doesnt heal you, you heal yourself. It's all in the mind. A healer only poses as a reason to believe. Thats how they work. If you don't believe, then it ain't gonna do much for you. Thats why you have people that heal and people that dont.
Thats what placebo studies are trying to tell you. This goes the same with studies invlolbing knee surgeries. The placebo was there. It's real.
Are you a happy person because you believe you can be, or are you happy because you agree with your environment?
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7754214 - 12/13/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Gosh darn everyone ignored my nifty use of colors .
O well thats it for me.
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7754220 - 12/13/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: It possible, but there are OTHER, more possible possibilities than that. It is far more possible that those UFOs are human made, than it is possible for them to be from somewhere outside of this planet.
Oh please... why is it MORE possible for UFOs to be a product of human makings?
wow.. I don't understand..
Are you telling me just because you THINK that its more possible for the alien agenda to be manmade that we should ignore the implications if they were not manmade?
Should we choose to believe they were manmade because its EASIER.
Yea.. it's a hell of alot to believe in whats "easier" than what has deeper and stranger implications.
*What does it have to do with reality?*
EVERYTHING! The reality we live in is the lie. All the distractions everywhere. We are not aware of the reality! That is the issue here.
Edited by Ginseng1 (12/13/07 03:24 PM)
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7754222 - 12/13/07 03:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thats why you have people that heal and people that dont.
And I'm asking again, WHERE are those people who healed, to tell the world that they healed by believing?
Quote:
Are you a happy person because you believe you can be, or are you happy because you agree with your environment?
I am happy because my Will is to be happy. It has nothing to do with belief or surroundings, it has to do with INTENTION, and acting upon that intention.
The difference: FAITH: I believe I can have apple. And that wait for the apple to... show up  WILL: My intention is to eat a god damn apple, so I'd better move my ass, grab an apple, and eat it.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7754231 - 12/13/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just curious, MushroomTrip: I think you've posted here before about practicing Reiki. Have you seen it heal anyone? Do you no longer believe in it? Or do you just use it for non-healing purposes?
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7754244 - 12/13/07 03:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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So what about unhappy people, are they so because it's their WILL to be unhappy, or because they dont believe they can be.
hmmmmmm?
Happiness is a choice, a choice depending on what you BELIEVE. I believe that life is beautiful, despite the ugliness.
Belief is much more powerful that will.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7754245 - 12/13/07 03:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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What's with the Us vs. Them mentality?
We are ALL Shroomerites, and some of us enjoy both P+S and M+P.
I view the two forums as the Yang and Yin of the Shroomery's Tao.
Though I will say some Shroomerites need to Shroom more often, increase their dosage... and take notes!
You know who who are...
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
#7754250 - 12/13/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I use it on me and friends who feel bad or sick, but, for example, if a friend shows up and tells me hey I have the flu or whatever else, I always tell them to keep taking their medication.  When I use it on me, it works. But I never was in the situation to use it on more than head aches & similar simple things like that.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7754256 - 12/13/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know someone who used Reiki on his mother and her cancer went away. He still has trouble believing it, but everyone who was there says it was real. Not that it proves anything, but I always thought it was a cool story.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7754269 - 12/13/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ginseng1 said: So what about unhappy people, are they so because it's their WILL to be unhappy, or because they dont believe they can be.
hmmmmmm?
Happiness is a choice, a choice depending on what you BELIEVE. I believe that life is beautiful, despite the ugliness.
Belief is much more powerful that will.
Unhappy people have the will to be unhappy. As weird as it might sound, I am getting more and more convinced about that. Why they do it? Because they feel more comfortable this way. I know this by observation and also from personal experience, remembering how it felt and WHY back in the days when I felt miserable.
Oh, and yes, simply saying that faith is more powerful then will doesn't make it true. I also said faith id wishful thinking. Will is wishful thinking combined with action. Hmmmmm... I wonder which one works better...
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
#7754273 - 12/13/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Come to think of it, I've always found there's a certain double-edged sword when it comes to scientific validation of healing. If a person continues taking their medication after the healing, the scientist will attribute their healing to the medicine. If, however, they stop taking their medication and die, the skeptics will be all over it decrying the deadliness of faith. Personally, if I have cancer, I wouldn't mind trying to get healed at Lourdes cathedral and taking chemotherapy, and I wouldn't care which one did the healing. It seems one has to take a greater risk with their lives in order to satisfy scientific skepticism, and frankly, I'd rather just be thought a superstitious fool than risk my life like that.
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