Home | Community | Message Board

Original Seeds Store
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | Next >
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7791433 - 12/23/07 02:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

More confrimation of what I keep stressing about a logic deficiency in TBs.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7791582 - 12/23/07 05:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So... we have determined that the problem with P+S heads is that they demand logic.  I think we have also shown that non-P+S heads resent scientists for following the scientific method rather than accepting non-repeatable circumstantial evidence as proof.  Did I miss anything?  :wink:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletruekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny Flag
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: symbiotic]
    #7791618 - 12/23/07 06:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

james randi challenge is no longer open to everyone. its now available only to those with media presence, and who have signed document from "an acedemic" saying they've witnessed whatever powers.

so to say take the james randi challenge is a moot point.

no skeptics out here that like free money?


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Seuss]
    #7791741 - 12/23/07 08:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Geez Seuss, you could have saved us 12 pages (and counting) of useless blather. Get here earlier next time. :mad:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7791851 - 12/23/07 09:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ministry of defense detects radiation

I can dig up a uranium containing rock that emits radiation and is ENTIRELY TERRESTRIAL.

Why is it so hard to understand that for evidence to be extraterrestrial, it has to be of extraterrestrial origin. That means it doesn't exist on Earth.

Try again.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7791867 - 12/23/07 09:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

james randi challenge is no longer open to everyone

It was open to anyone for 50 years. Where were you?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
    #7792234 - 12/23/07 11:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
james randi challenge is no longer open to everyone

It was open to anyone for 50 years. Where were you?



It doesn't matter. He's here now making a bet about telekinesis. Why are you guys not jumping on this opportunity?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
    #7792238 - 12/23/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yet another lame TB excuse. The money is STILL OPEN one merely has to qualify locally first as Randi was swamped with BS claims.

An affadavit from a univerisity physics department or other CREDIBLE public display will get Randi's attention.

And of course I invited TrueKimbo out here and *yawn* he is still talking about pinwheels years later. Normally they mature by now.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7792286 - 12/23/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It doesn't matter. He's here now making a bet about telekinesis. Why are you guys not jumping on this opportunity?

Well, alright. Here's the thing.

At least two shroomerites, including myself, agreed to provisionally participate in a test of his powers and hand him big $ if he does what he says he can do.

Because I've been here before with other TBs who are full of shit, it was asked, and truekimbo2 AGREED, that before testing, he would produce a video of him filling a pickle jar with water (to show there are no holes in the jar), then dumping the water and placing a pinwheel in the jar which would then be sealed with duct tape. He would then move the pinwheel without touching the jar. This was to be done in one camera cut to prevent cheating.

That was over TWO YEARS AGO! Still no video. Of course, this hasn't stopped truekimbo2 from making dozens of new posts claiming these powers and bitching at me and others for not testing him. Nevermind that the promised video is nowhere to be seen.

If he ever actually follows through on his promise (don't hold your breath) I will follow through on my personal promise to fly him on my dime down here to Fort Lauderdale and personally arrange for the James Randi Educational Foundation to perform the formal test. And trust me, if I tell Randi that this guy is for real, Randi will listen to me, so the JREF test is not as closed as you might think. At least not for Shroomerites who manage to convince me.

Summary: for an hour's effort making a simple video, he would get a free, all-expense paid vacation to beautiful south Florida and a chance at a cool million in cash.

I'm still waiting. It's been two years. WTF is the problem?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7792323 - 12/23/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7792338 - 12/23/07 12:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:



Now you know how I feel.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7792362 - 12/23/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I can see where it would get tiring trying to maintain a fantasy.

For the trillionth time: one single verifiable exhibition shuts up skeptics FOR ALL TIME.

Notice folks that worldwide there is not one single 'Believer's Challenge' and we all know why that is.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
    #7792371 - 12/23/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Make the tape truekimbo2, make the tape!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7792386 - 12/23/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Notice folks that worldwide there is not one single 'Believer's Challenge' and we all know why that is.



Apparently you aren't aware that there's a $250,000 challenge to prove evolution.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7792388 - 12/23/07 12:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Make the tape truekimbo2, make the tape!




--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7792399 - 12/23/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am quite aware of this fallactious challenge.

Analysis of Dr Dino's $250,000 Challenge


Hello,

This challenge often comes up. There are plenty of refutations of his challenge around but I thought I would write my own.

Analysis of $250,000 Challenge.
The challenge: http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=250k

After looking through the Challenge it quickly becomes apparent that the challenged is rigged to be impossible to win, whether this was done on purpose or because of Hovind's miss-understandings is unknown.


General Evolution

Hovind has taken it upon himself to redefine the meaning of the theory of evolution, to include many different sections of science. He appears to think that just because science uses the word "evolution" in different theories, that that means they are all part of the theory of evolution. This forms a strawman, where the real theory of evolution is attacked because of less evidence in other theories. No matter how much Hovind wants to make his definition of evolution real, the reality of the matter is that the theory of evolution is part of biology and only biology. Now a look at Hovinds new definition.

"1. Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves.
2. Planets and stars formed from space dust.
3. Matter created life by itself.
4. Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves.
5. Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals)."

1. Not part of the Theory of Evolution. Appears to be a combination of First Cause and the Big Bang. This is part of his strawman, because First cause has many different competing theories with about the same evidence, so right now, we don't know what was the first cause.
2. Not part of the Theory of Evolution. Although this is often called Stellar evolution, it is seperate from the theory of evolution.
3. Not part of the Theory of Evolution. This is abiogenesis, and another part of the strawman, because although there is evidence for abiogenesis, it is no where near what we have for evolution.
4. Now we almost get to evolution. The very beginnings of reproduction is still part of abiogenesis. Once reproduction or replication starts to happen, then we get to evolution.
5. Finally evolution, with a twist of course. The twist is because Hovind has again redefined terms and he wants proof for his version of Macro evolution, which is changes between Kinds. Of course, he seems to refuse to define what a "kind" really is, often falling back on the claim that people should Just know.

So, out of the 5, only one is part of the theory of evolution, and even it has been changed to fit Hovind's view.


Known Options

Hovind gives us a couple options as to how the universe came about,

"1. The universe was created by God.
2. The universe always existed.
3. The universe came into being by itself by purely natural processes (known as evolution) so that no appeal to the supernatural is needed."

"Prove beyond reasonable doubt that the process of evolution (option 3 above, under "known options") is the only possible way the observed phenomena could have come into existence."

Here we can see what makes his challenge impossible to answer. Hovind has equated Creationism with theism and Evolution with atheism, as we can see in his options. This is what makes his challenge impossible to answer, no matter what evidence we have.
Science is agnostic, it can not prove nor disprove god. Same goes for evolution. It is impossible for science to prove that god was not involved in the universe. Since option 3 is basically saying "prove that god did not have a hand in the creation of the universe or how it runs." it is outside the realm of science and thus can not be proven through empirical evidence.

As mentioned, evolution is not atheism, and can easily be compatible with theism. Evolution is not atheism and atheism is not provable through science, so the challenge becomes impossible to win. It is possible to show that whether there is a god or not, evolution is backed by evidence.


Other Problems

Others have suggested that there are more problems with the challenge.
That Hovind's definition of "prove" or "beyond a reasonable doubt" is much different than anyone else's. Science can not "prove" something 100% so there will always be a possibility of doubt, reasonable or not, is up to Hovind. If he considered any doubt reasonable, then it would be impossible for us to "prove" anything to him.
Some also question his fairness, as in the challenge we find out that although he has a committee, all papers must go through him first, before they go to the committee. And thus he has the chance to pick and choose which papers, if any, he gives to the committee for review.

While these may be valid points, they don't really matter, since we have already seen that the challenge is impossible.


Conclusion

The challenge is designed to be impossible to win. It asks us to prove with science, something that is outside the realm of science, to prove god does not exist. It also asks us to prove Hovind's version of evolution, which includes parts of science that do not have as much evidence as the theory of evolution, and an incorrect version of the theory of evolution.

So does this prove that evolution is false, or that no evidence exists for evolution (or the other theories Hovind linked to Evolution)? No. what it does prove is that Hovind does not understand Science or the Theory of Evolution.





--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7792411 - 12/23/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am curious as to whether you believe Hovind's Creationist stance or not.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7792438 - 12/23/07 01:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Of course not. I was just refuting your point that there is no "Believer's Challenge."


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7792461 - 12/23/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

And just for the record, I'm not a believer either. In fact I'm less of a believer than you.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7792515 - 12/23/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Of course not. I was just refuting your point that there is no "Believer's Challenge."




A Challenge that is theoretically impossible to win has no merit whatsoever. No amount of data will qualify.

The Swami and Randi Challenge's are theoretically possible to win.

HUGE difference.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | Next >

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Right and Wrong
( 1 2 all )
CherryBomM 4,429 31 10/02/01 09:18 AM
by oneoverzero
* Is masterbation morally wrong?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
inbetween 8,371 76 10/24/02 12:16 PM
by TeKHeAD009
* Is killing wrong?
( 1 2 all )
cleaner 2,239 30 04/20/03 03:03 PM
by mr freedom
* Whats wrong with being a skeptic
( 1 2 3 all )
seeker 4,546 42 06/08/03 11:04 PM
by Sclorch
* You have it all wrong (The truth about Christianity)
( 1 2 all )
World Spirit 2,455 36 01/05/03 05:28 PM
by World Spirit
* The Wrong Way to Debate Swami 853 15 02/11/04 01:24 PM
by SpecialEd
* You are wrong! sirreal 596 12 10/18/03 05:23 PM
by Droz
* Mollases Head Jared 636 1 07/28/03 01:30 PM
by fireworks_god

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
12,341 topic views. 1 members, 8 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.